1/12/2009 Woelfel: Conley deal waiting for Herb (poll added)

[A-HA]

In what way did Memphis do a horrible job of developing Conley? Not enough playing time? Bad coaching? I'd like some specifics on that one.

In my view, the lack of movement and motion on Marc Iavaroni's half-court offense is extraordinary. It's, by far, the most stagnant offense in the league; heavily based on players creating off the dribble on clearouts or 2men game - and I'd go as far as saying it's probably one of the most boring offenses in the NBA during the last half a decade or so.

That's really interesting.
Where would you put the Bucks' offense vs. the league average w/ respect to movement & motion?
What about the Buckeyes'?

[L&H_05]

I don't understand the Bucks franchise whatsoever...

Drafting JA, and then trading him along with a PG who some serious talent, for a Ridnour-like PG, who doesn't defend well, and lacks consistent penetration ability, the ability to shoot consistently, and is just overall average at best...

Do you really think Skiles is going to give him the freedom to just play ??

I don't get it... I never liked the JA pick, but he could mold well into a hard nose player that can possibly play both ends of the floor... Sessions is a guy that you know can score, and setup his teammates.. I don't understand your franchise...

There's no identity... If you're going to be a defense first squad, you don't bring in Conley...

Also, is Redd a grandfathered-in member with that franchise ??? Why on earth are they looking to move everyone around him ???

[BuckFan25226]

I don't understand the Bucks franchise whatsoever...

Drafting JA, and then trading him along with a PG who some serious talent, for a Ridnour-like PG, who doesn't defend well, and lacks consistent penetration ability, the ability to shoot consistently, and is just overall average at best...

Do you really think Skiles is going to give him the freedom to just play ??

I don't get it... I never liked the JA pick, but he could mold well into a hard nose player that can possibly play both ends of the floor... Sessions is a guy that you know can score, and setup his teammates.. I don't understand your franchise...

There's no identity... If you're going to be a defense first squad, you don't bring in Conley...

Also, is Redd a grandfathered-in member with that franchise ??? Why on earth are they looking to move everyone around him ???

I don't really think they are, I just don't think Hammond has found the right deal for him yet. Hammond admitted the only guy that's anywhere near untouchable at this point is Bogut.

[aboveAverage]

I don't understand the Bucks franchise whatsoever...

Drafting JA, and then trading him along with a PG who some serious talent, for a Ridnour-like PG, who doesn't defend well, and lacks consistent penetration ability, the ability to shoot consistently, and is just overall average at best...

Do you really think Skiles is going to give him the freedom to just play ??

I don't get it... I never liked the JA pick, but he could mold well into a hard nose player that can possibly play both ends of the floor... Sessions is a guy that you know can score, and setup his teammates.. I don't understand your franchise...

There's no identity... If you're going to be a defense first squad, you don't bring in Conley...

Also, is Redd a grandfathered-in member with that franchise ??? Why on earth are they looking to move everyone around him ???

Exactly. But when you watch a team every play every single game, you start to nitpick and find faults with every player. Ask any GM around the league what they think about Sessions. They will tell you that he has enormous potential and will be a great player in this league. Yet the Bucks don't seem to see that in him.

[WEFFPIM]

Exactly. But when you watch a team every play every single game, you start to nitpick and find faults with every player. Ask any GM around the league what they think about Sessions. They will tell you that he has enormous potential and will be a great player in this league. Yet the Bucks don't seem to see that in him.

I'm not doubting what GMs are saying, but I am doubting that you know what they are saying

[mbucks22]

I don't understand the Bucks franchise whatsoever...

Drafting JA, and then trading him along with a PG who some serious talent, for a Ridnour-like PG, who doesn't defend well, and lacks consistent penetration ability, the ability to shoot consistently, and is just overall average at best...

Do you really think Skiles is going to give him the freedom to just play ??

I don't get it... I never liked the JA pick, but he could mold well into a hard nose player that can possibly play both ends of the floor... Sessions is a guy that you know can score, and setup his teammates.. I don't understand your franchise...

There's no identity... If you're going to be a defense first squad, you don't bring in Conley...

Also, is Redd a grandfathered-in member with that franchise ??? Why on earth are they looking to move everyone around him ???

So an outsider sees that in Sessions as well, very interesting. I agree completely on what Sessions brings when he is on the floor. I'm not completely against Conley being here, but at the same time, I do not want to see Sessions turn into a star down the road, on another team. Maybe Conley becomes something pretty damn good himself, but I'm not as high on him as I am on Sessions.

[carmelbrownqueen]

I don't understand the Bucks franchise whatsoever...

Drafting JA, and then trading him along with a PG who some serious talent, for a Ridnour-like PG, who doesn't defend well, and lacks consistent penetration ability, the ability to shoot consistently, and is just overall average at best...

Do you really think Skiles is going to give him the freedom to just play ??

I don't get it... I never liked the JA pick, but he could mold well into a hard nose player that can possibly play both ends of the floor... Sessions is a guy that you know can score, and setup his teammates.. I don't understand your franchise...

There's no identity... If you're going to be a defense first squad, you don't bring in Conley...

Also, is Redd a grandfathered-in member with that franchise ??? Why on earth are they looking to move everyone around him ???

Sessions is a nice young player and I think fans/management alike had a lot of hopes about what he would or could develop into, but as the season has progressed it appears as if he just doesn't run a team very well. He tends to stagnant the offense by holding the ball to long and isn't a very good defender. On the other hand Ridnour has been somewhat better at setting up his teammates and giving defensive effort. I don't think there is a fan on this board that doesn't like Sessions, and most want to keep him with hopes that he will continue to improve but apparently Bucks management isn't sold on his ability to lead a team as a starting point guard.

[bigkurty]

This Conley kid better be good. He sucked on a bad team and his main competition for the job was Kyle Lowry and he couldn't even beat him out even though he was the 4th pick. Kyle fricking Lowry. Lowry is only a year older than Conley (sessions age) and was drafted with the 24th pick. As screwed up as Memphis is, seriously they must think Conley sucks.

Ramon has a 16.82 PER
Lowry has a 14.36
Conley a 11.93

Seriously Conley maybe young but right now he sucks, has not done anything, and everyone thinks he has all this potential because of what. Some fancy dribbling skills and how he performed in the draft workouts. Sessions has done something in the NBA at least even if it was small doses in short spurts.

Conley's best scoring month he scored 14.3 points, best assists month he had 5.4, rbs 4.4, steals 1.3
Sessions best scoring month he scored 15.6 points, best assists month he had 11.3, rbs 4.9, steals 1.5

Man I so hope I am wrong but how have you all convinced yourself this is such a great move? Did you all talk yourself into it so you don't feel bad when it happens. I hope I am wrong but this is not as cut and dried of a decision as some are making it out to be.

[L&H_05]

Exactly. But when you watch a team every play every single game, you start to nitpick and find faults with every player. Ask any GM around the league what they think about Sessions. They will tell you that he has enormous potential and will be a great player in this league. Yet the Bucks don't seem to see that in him.

Exactly... It's like, Sessions is already a better player than Conley... Conley may be a slightly better PURE pg, but he Sessions has shown the actual talent that he can score and setup... Conley has not...

So, if Conley just got to play and run the show (Again, Skiles would not allow this) what is his game going to evolve into ?? Would it be any better than Sessions' already is ?? I doubt it... If Conley added to his game, his game would be like Sessions, and Skiles already won't allow Sessions to just play...

It's a lateral move IMO... And may ultimately be a move that sets the Bucks back even further...

[WEFFPIM]

Still nothing on JSOnline. Haudricourt just posted a story about Hardy signing that the team hasn't even officially announced yet. Enlund sitting in a recliner watching tapes of Vin Baker in his hey-day

[BDUB_30]

I don't understand the Bucks franchise whatsoever...

Drafting JA, and then trading him along with a PG who some serious talent, for a Ridnour-like PG, who doesn't defend well, and lacks consistent penetration ability, the ability to shoot consistently, and is just overall average at best...

Do you really think Skiles is going to give him the freedom to just play ??

I don't get it... I never liked the JA pick, but he could mold well into a hard nose player that can possibly play both ends of the floor... Sessions is a guy that you know can score, and setup his teammates.. I don't understand your franchise...

There's no identity... If you're going to be a defense first squad, you don't bring in Conley...

Also, is Redd a grandfathered-in member with that franchise ??? Why on earth are they looking to move everyone around him ???

Exactly. But when you watch a team every play every single game, you start to nitpick and find faults with every player. Ask any GM around the league what they think about Sessions. They will tell you that he has enormous potential and will be a great player in this league. Yet the Bucks don't seem to see that in him.

youre crazy as hell if u think that to be true ..


ask any gm in this leauge and they will tell us sessions has " enormous " potential and will be a great player in this leauge ??? ..



..what are you basing that off of ? you present that as if it was a fact , i mean come on ...you have no idea what the consensus is nba wide for sessions but if were only getting conley back and were throwing in our lottery pick... i seriously doubt the consensus around the nba is " SESSIONS HAS ENORMOUS POTENTIAL AND WILL BE A GREAT PLAYER " ...


Sessions has been aweful this year at the pg ...just aweful . i wont no part of him long term , i dont see the potential ...hes not this magical playmaker .. he did great playing a draw and kick offense , but we dont run that kind of offense ...nor would any team run an offense designed around ramon sessons playing draw and kick basketball .. he cant even make a 12 foot jumpshot ..

[Shoot it FatBoy]

This Conley kid better be good. He sucked on a bad team and his main competition for the job was Kyle Lowry and he couldn't even beat him out even though he was the 4th pick. Kyle fricking Lowry. Lowry is only a year older than Conley (sessions age) and was drafted with the 24th pick. As screwed up as Memphis is, seriously they must think Conley sucks.

Ramon has a 16.82 PER
Lowry has a 14.36
Conley a 11.93

Seriously Conley maybe young but right now he sucks, has not done anything, and everyone thinks he has all this potential because of what. Some fancy dribbling skills and how he performed in the draft workouts. Sessions has done something in the NBA at least even if it was small doses in short spurts.

Conley's best scoring month he scored 14.3 points, best assists month he had 5.4, rbs 4.4, steals 1.3
Sessions best scoring month he scored 15.6 points, best assists month he had 11.3, rbs 4.9, steals 1.5

Man I so hope I am wrong but how have you all convinced yourself this is such a great move? Did you all talk yourself into it so you don't feel bad when it happens. I hope I am wrong but this is not as cut and dried of a decision as some are making it out to be.

That whole leading a team to the NCAA championship game might have something to do with it as well. And don't say it was ALL Oden because he hasn't exactly been a dominant force in the league yet either.

[BDUB_30]

Exactly. But when you watch a team every play every single game, you start to nitpick and find faults with every player. Ask any GM around the league what they think about Sessions. They will tell you that he has enormous potential and will be a great player in this league. Yet the Bucks don't seem to see that in him.

Exactly... It's like, Sessions is already a better player than Conley... Conley may be a slightly better PURE pg, but he Sessions has shown the actual talent that he can score and setup... Conley has not...

So, if Conley just got to play and run the show (Again, Skiles would not allow this) what is his game going to evolve into ?? Would it be any better than Sessions' already is ?? I doubt it... If Conley added to his game, his game would be like Sessions, and Skiles already won't allow Sessions to just play...

It's a lateral move IMO... And may ultimately be a move that sets the Bucks back even further...

Sessions has not shown that he can " setup " .. he has shown the exact opposite , that he can not run an nba offense ... his decision making is brutal .. he is one of the few point guards ive seen at the nba level that stops dribbling in traffic , and that has to pick up the dribble to make a pass ..

sorry but is it possible that you dont understand the logic of this trade due to the fact that you , or " we " are grossly overating sessions ?

[Captain Erv]

Still nothing on JSOnline. Haudricourt just posted a story about Hardy signing that the team hasn't even officially announced yet. Enlund sitting in a recliner watching tapes of Vin Baker in his hey-day

TH is a manimal. They should just let him do all the sports blogs. I'm sure he'd be blogging about what time the Bucks arrived for morning shoot around and who was wearing what.

TH >>>>>>>> Chuck Norris

[MickeyDavis]

I can guarantee you that Enlund is in the press room buffet line right now.

[BDUB_30]

I don't think there is a fan on this board that doesn't like Sessions, and most want to keep him with hopes that he will continue to improve but apparently Bucks management isn't sold on his ability to lead a team as a starting point guard.

dont kid yourself .


i dont like sessions , and i havent liked him .

i watched him closely at the close of last season ...we all see these numbers and we think ohhh wowwwww this kid is something special ..


but very few even mentioned the amount that sessions dominated the ball ..running a 1-4 offense featuring ramon sessions is not the future of any nba team ...

i knew that putting ramon into a proffesionaly coached team , and not a second rate proffesional pick up game coached team ... that sessions would be extremely average if not flawed .. his decision making process is bad , he has bad instincts , he over dribbles , he cant shoot .. and he doesnt defend ...


he is very good at penetrating and finishing ..and thats about it ......thats not enough for me , sorry ..but thats just not enough for me to get excited about , and i dont think its enough for hammond / skiles to get excited about and thats why weve seen very little of ramon sessons at the 1 this year , and thats why were discussing him being shipped out of here .. hes just not as talented as his inflated , mirage box scores would lead one to beleive ...


adios sessions ....see ya on the bench somewhere else.

[smauss]

As I said before, IMHO it's the player within the system that is the problem with Sessions and appears to be the same with Conley. I think Ramon will be a good fit in Memphis and I think Conley will be a great fit here. As a matter of fact, I think with Luke and Skiles here and the system Conley could be quite special.

[L&H_05]

Sessions has not shown that he can " setup " .. he has shown the exact opposite , that he can not run an nba offense ... his decision making is brutal .. he is one of the few point guards ive seen at the nba level that stops dribbling in traffic , and that has to pick up the dribble to make a pass ..

sorry but is it possible that you dont understand the logic of this trade due to the fact that you , or " we " are grossly overating sessions ?

Sure he has.. Maybe not in the system that he's currently playing in.. However, he has indeed in the past shown that he has the ability to setup...

He also has the ability that many PG's don't have, which is quickness to get inside, and get into the paint to utilize a midrange game, and excellent overall footwork to get his shot off..

Problem is, you guys are going to be dealing with Skiles and his PG handling for awhile now...

[europa]

It's a lateral move IMO... And may ultimately be a move that sets the Bucks back even further...

The Bucks are clearly an improved team this season so I don't see how this move could set them back "even further." So far, Hammond's moves have made this a better team. I believe he understands what needs to be done to continue to improve this team. While I like Sessions a lot and believe he has a very bright future, if Hammond and Skiles believe he isn't the right fit for what they want to do and what they want to build, I'll trust their judgment.

[paulpressey25]

Also, is Redd a grandfathered-in member with that franchise ??? Why on earth are they looking to move everyone around him ???

No clue why we hold onto that situation. I'd rather take my chances with a backcourt of Ramon and Bell at the two guard until next summer if there was a Redd trade out there where we could save some money.

Redd and Bogut have been our two constants the last four years. We've pretty much though had every Non top-50 player in the league be their team-mates over that stretch.