1/12/2009 Woelfel: Conley deal waiting for Herb (poll added)

[EastSideBucksFan]

Can somebody tell me why a Gadz for Darko swap would make this a better deal? Both players suck, both have the same number of years left on their deals, but Darko makes slightly more money.

That's not really an incentive to me.

Darko has a year less than Gadz and if they want Alexander and Sessions we should be compensated for that for giving them two young players for just Conley. Also, Darko could most definitely play next to Bogut, to provide shotblocking and rebound. Gadz could never play next to Bogut.

If its Conley/Darko for Sessions/JA/Gadz then it is a very good deal IMO

[trwi7]

Can somebody tell me why a Gadz for Darko swap would make this a better deal? Both players suck, both have the same number of years left on their deals, but Darko makes slightly more money.

That's not really an incentive to me.

Darko has one year left on his deal. Gadz has two.

I edited my Marko/Darko confusion.

[BuckFan25226]

Good to hear this deal is not dead yet.

[Nowak008]

Good to hear this deal is not dead yet.

+1

Roll that dice!

[mcfromage]

+ 2

[El Duderino]

I wasn't kidding when I said I heard things to indicate that some details are still being ironed out, and they are dependent on whether or not Alexander gets voted in to the dunk contest.

From which side, though? The Bucks or the Grizzlies? I can see in theory the Bucks not wanting to part with Alexander's potential marketability if he's in the dunk contest. But given how Kohl gave the OK to trade Yi and his global interests and to trade a fan favorite in Mo I can't see why he'd be reluctant to part with a player who at this time isn't anywhere near as good as either one of them. And I can't see why the Grizzlies would be concerned about this if the report is true that they were the one who first broached the Bucks about the deal.

Can you shed some light on this? Is it possible the delay is coming because the Bucks are trying to get more out of the deal (i.e. including Gadz and Darko, for example)?

If Kohl is basing on whether to trade his lottery pick and Sessions on whether Alexander gets into the dunk contest, it's hard to have much hope that the Bucks franchise is heading in the direction i'd like to see.

[power4wardjinx]

Can somebody tell me why a Gadz for Darko swap would make this a better deal? Both players suck, both have the same number of years left on their deals, but Darko makes slightly more money.

That's not really an incentive to me.

Darko has a year less than Gadz and if they want Alexander and Sessions we should be compensated for that for giving them two young players for just Conley. Also, Darko could most definitely play next to Bogut, to provide shotblocking and rebound. Gadz could never play next to Bogut.

If its Conley/Darko for Sessions/JA/Gadz then it is a very good deal IMO

Absolutely. If Memphis wants Sessions that badly, the price they pay should be Gadz. Darko belongs in the East conference where he can at least scare Varejao and Powe and Maxiell. He's wasted playing out waste, where nobody wants to brawl him.

But if Darko's the best expiring Memphis has and it isn't until next year, forget 'em. The Bucks need a good chunk of space now and this dumb deal with Conley doesn't get us anything resembling that.

[trwi7]

Didn't GAD say the Grizzlies were waiting to see if he made the dunk contest so they could more easily sell the trade to their fans and the Bucks would wait so they could try to get something extra?

Maybe I'm misremembering. I tend to do that from time to time.

[REDDzone]

I have yet to really favor or reject this trade at this point.

But I gotta say I'd just like to see it get done. I truly don't believe JA will ever be a starter in this league, so let him be somebody else's problem. I don't think that Hammond ever really considered Sessions as the PG of the future for this team, and do not think he will match anything not extremely favorable for the team this summer.

If the choice if lose Sessions/watch JA rot on the bench, or take Conley and perhaps another asset, may as well take Nowak's advice and roll the freakin' dice.

GET'ER DONE HAMMOND.

[power4wardjinx]

I wasn't kidding when I said I heard things to indicate that some details are still being ironed out, and they are dependent on whether or not Alexander gets voted in to the dunk contest.

From which side, though? The Bucks or the Grizzlies? I can see in theory the Bucks not wanting to part with Alexander's potential marketability if he's in the dunk contest. But given how Kohl gave the OK to trade Yi and his global interests and to trade a fan favorite in Mo I can't see why he'd be reluctant to part with a player who at this time isn't anywhere near as good as either one of them. And I can't see why the Grizzlies would be concerned about this if the report is true that they were the one who first broached the Bucks about the deal.

Can you shed some light on this? Is it possible the delay is coming because the Bucks are trying to get more out of the deal (i.e. including Gadz and Darko, for example)?

If Kohl is basing on whether to trade his lottery pick and Sessions on whether Alexander gets into the dunk contest, it's hard to have much hope that the Bucks franchise is heading in the direction i'd like to see.

Hammond isn't waiting on a dunk contest.No responsible adult would, as you just said. He backed out just like Houston did on that deal that Saturday after Christmas. Much like Morey in Houston, he's got a plan B and probably a plan C. Can't wait to see what that is.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

I wasn't kidding when I said I heard things to indicate that some details are still being ironed out, and they are dependent on whether or not Alexander gets voted in to the dunk contest.

From which side, though? The Bucks or the Grizzlies? I can see in theory the Bucks not wanting to part with Alexander's potential marketability if he's in the dunk contest. But given how Kohl gave the OK to trade Yi and his global interests and to trade a fan favorite in Mo I can't see why he'd be reluctant to part with a player who at this time isn't anywhere near as good as either one of them. And I can't see why the Grizzlies would be concerned about this if the report is true that they were the one who first broached the Bucks about the deal.

Can you shed some light on this? Is it possible the delay is coming because the Bucks are trying to get more out of the deal (i.e. including Gadz and Darko, for example)?

Yes, the "more" is the only thing at play here. It is Sessions/Alexander for Conley. The plus is what is at stake, and I imagine (this part is still a guess) that we are making a case that the financial/marketing bonus of Alexander being in the dunk contest should allow us to come out of this deal in more favorable financial terms than if he doesn't get in, as in Gadz for Darko, or cash, etc.

It has nothing to do with Kohl being unwilling to part with Alexander if he makes it into the dunk contest, as far as I can tell. Someone involved in these negotiations seems to think that the dunk contest angle should impact some of the trimmings on this trade.

So if it's an either or scenario, would people prefer receiving the Lakers first round pick or being able to swap Gadz for Darko?

Darko would be a big upgrade over Gadz, but his attitude is terrible and he very well might despise playing for Skiles. He would have an opportunity to earn some big minutes on a solid team though, so maybe he could have a resurgence of sorts (all he'd need to do is play consistently mediocre). We desperately need help up front though, and a Darko/Bogut tandem could be real good defensively.

The year less of salary could be important though, as GAD always reminds us that we can allocate that money to a different player.

I'd prefer the Gadz for Darko swap myself.
I just hope Kohl would allow us to acquire Darko, despite that Darko tirade against those Italian FIBA refs where he threatens to **** their mothers and then **** their daughters too.

[power4wardjinx]

But would Hammond accept Darko? I still think the reason we drafted Joe Alexander is that Hammond was half out of his mind draft week waking up every night from bad dreams screaming DARKOOOOHHH. I know this girl who lives near the condo Hammond was leasing at the time and she's got this weird dog that has to go out every night at 3Am -- she could hear Hammond's screams. DARKOOOHHHHH. Every night for a week.

Jeff Wetland, Hammond's draft guy, was doing the draft job in Denver when Detroit drafted Darko and Denver took 'Melo at #3. There's a reason Dumars/hammond hired up Wetland. DARKKKKOOOOOOHHHHH.

[buki0022]

Does anyone know when the voting ends for the dunk contest?

[REDDzone]

I'm just glad we aren't trading Sessions within the division, you NEVER do that. Oh, and if this trade is looking more likely, it sucks that we won't have Sessions active tomorrow night, teams never play guys that could potentially be getting traded.

(Hoping if I drive GAD crazy, maybe he will let slip anything else (if anything) he may know about this deal slip).

[El Duderino]

I wasn't kidding when I said I heard things to indicate that some details are still being ironed out, and they are dependent on whether or not Alexander gets voted in to the dunk contest.

From which side, though? The Bucks or the Grizzlies? I can see in theory the Bucks not wanting to part with Alexander's potential marketability if he's in the dunk contest. But given how Kohl gave the OK to trade Yi and his global interests and to trade a fan favorite in Mo I can't see why he'd be reluctant to part with a player who at this time isn't anywhere near as good as either one of them. And I can't see why the Grizzlies would be concerned about this if the report is true that they were the one who first broached the Bucks about the deal.

Can you shed some light on this? Is it possible the delay is coming because the Bucks are trying to get more out of the deal (i.e. including Gadz and Darko, for example)?

Yes, the "more" is the only thing at play here. It is Sessions/Alexander for Conley. The plus is what is at stake, and I imagine (this part is still a guess) that we are making a case that the financial/marketing bonus of Alexander being in the dunk contest should allow us to come out of this deal in more favorable financial terms than if he doesn't get in, as in Gadz for Darko, or cash, etc.

It has nothing to do with Kohl being unwilling to part with Alexander if he makes it into the dunk contest, as far as I can tell. Someone involved in these negotiations seems to think that the dunk contest angle should impact some of the trimmings on this trade.

I'm not saying the Bucks should rush to do any trade unless they are comfortable with the final results of the deal. That said, if the Bucks believe enough in Conley to trade both Sessions and their recent lottery pick, do you really believe it's worth potentially losing the trade over some filler being added to the deal like say a second round pick or maybe even the Lakers 2010 first rounder?

I'm not trying to imply that a late first round pick or a second rounder are meaningless, but quite often in the NBA, players drafted in that range don't amount to all that much. Obviously i know of the success the Bucks have had in the second round, but overall, the majority on late first rounders and/or second rounders don't become high quality players.

The odds highly favor that the winner of this potential trade would be whoever of Sessions, Alexander, or Conley becomes the best player going forward, regardless if we also got a second round pick or the Lakers 2010 first rounder.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

But would Hammond accept Darko? I still think the reason we drafted Joe Alexander is that Hammond was half out of his mind draft week waking up every night from bad dreams screaming DARKOOOOHHH. I know this girl who lives near the condo Hammond was leasing at the time and she's got this weird dog that has to go out every night at 3Am -- she could hear Hammond's screams. DARKOOOHHHHH. Every night for a week.

Jeff Wetland, Hammond's draft guy, was doing the draft job in Denver when Detroit drafted Darko and Denver took 'Melo at #3. There's a reason Dumars/hammond hired up Wetland. DARKKKKOOOOOOHHHHH.

Yeah, we'd have to see if Hammond would be willing to trade for Darko, good point
I brought that up earlier in the thread, actually, as far as how interesting it would be to see Hammond's former failed #2 pick and his current theoretically failed #8 pick both involved in the same trade.

And you are referring to Jeff Weltman, not Wetland For those that aren't aware (I think YOU are, but am not sure) he is Hammond's Assistant GM here.

Does anyone know when the voting ends for the dunk contest?

Wednesday January 14th
Today.

Supposedly they will be announcing the winner on Thursday January 15th.

I'm just glad we aren't trading Sessions within the division, you NEVER do that. Oh, and if this trade is looking more likely, it sucks that we won't have Sessions active tomorrow night, teams never play guys that could potentially be getting traded.

(Hoping if I drive GAD crazy, maybe he will let slip anything else (if anything) he may know about this deal slip).

You are all too familiar with my pet peeves

[power4wardjinx]

We do have Weltman, though, Duderino, and he's great with late 1st round, 2nd round stuff (I'm being serious now). Jameer Nelson and Jarret Jack are both late first round selections by Weltman when he was in Denver. Leon Powe was Weltman's last Denver pick - #49 in 2006. None of those guys are Nuggets now, but you can't blame him for that. They're are all solid pro players and Nelson's much more than that.

And Weltman was smart enough not to pass on 'Melo in 2003, unlike a certain GM and his assistant in Detroit.

Then there's Mbah a Moute. Weltman's got the touch.

But that doesn't make this dumb trade any more sensible.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

Yes, the "more" is the only thing at play here. It is Sessions/Alexander for Conley. The plus is what is at stake, and I imagine (this part is still a guess) that we are making a case that the financial/marketing bonus of Alexander being in the dunk contest should allow us to come out of this deal in more favorable financial terms than if he doesn't get in, as in Gadz for Darko, or cash, etc.

It has nothing to do with Kohl being unwilling to part with Alexander if he makes it into the dunk contest, as far as I can tell. Someone involved in these negotiations seems to think that the dunk contest angle should impact some of the trimmings on this trade.

I'm not saying the Bucks should rush to do any trade unless they are comfortable with the final results of the deal. That said, if the Bucks believe enough in Conley to trade both Sessions and their recent lottery pick, do you really believe it's worth potentially losing the trade over some filler being added to the deal like say a second round pick or maybe even the Lakers 2010 first rounder?

I'm not trying to imply that a late first round pick or a second rounder are meaningless, but quite often in the NBA, players drafted in that range don't amount to all that much. Obviously i know of the success the Bucks have had in the second round, but overall, the majority on late first rounders and/or second rounders don't become high quality players.

The odds highly favor that the winner of this potential trade would be whoever of Sessions, Alexander, or Conley becomes the best player going forward, regardless if we also got a second round pick or the Lakers 2010 first rounder.

Yes and no.
I understand the philosophy of just getting the deal done based on the principles even if you can't get the peripheral things you had hoped for, but there is definitely something to be said for standing a bit firm and trying to get terms more favorable to you.

Keep in mind, there is the other team's point of view to consider as well. If they have soured on Conley really working out there, and believe that Sessions/Alexander is a good return for Conley, is it worth it to them to risk the deal simply for not wanting to give up better financial terms (more cash, a Gadz for Darko swap, etc.) to us?

It's always somewhat of a game of poker/chicken.
I still do not like that we didn't attempt to drive a harder bargain during the Mo/Ridnour/etc. in order to net us Joe Smith instead of Damon Jones. I think if we had stuck to our guns, ultimately OKC would have accepted Damon Jones instead of Joe Smith. I just don't see how it mattered so much to them as compared to how much it would have mattered to the Bucks to have Joe Smith instead of Damon Jones. There was more of a sense of urgency in that trade though because of the priority of getting Mo Williams off the team. If somehow our bluff failed with the Sessions/Alexander/Conley trade, it wouldn't affect the team nearly as much and some type of trade could still happen prior to the trading deadline.

[AussieBuck]

Just a thought, is Darko Serbian? If so would he have a problem playing with Bogut or vice versa?

[power4wardjinx]

And you are referring to Jeff Weltman, not Wetland For those that aren't aware (I think YOU are, but am not sure) he is Hammond's Assistant GM here.

oops. Thanks for correcting that, GAD. That was an honest mistake -- wasn't trying to make a stupid joke out his name. I haven't been able to keep that in my head (unlike the spelling of Szczerbiak, for example). I used to know a guy name Wentlend, and I'm pretty sure that's what trips me up.