Long Term Plan? (merged threads)

[Dat2U]

lmao at wanting to trade two future allstars. Blatche is a beast. Quick first step, finishing ability, starting to show IQ level of songalia of both sides of the basketball. Nick Young..starting to show the burst that Gilbert has and he has lockdown ability guarding shooting guards. I absolutely love blatche and Young. Javaris has awesome acceleration and strength..really looks like a gilbert with better passing and but less range on his shot. Actually Javaris looks like a young Arenas/B.DAvis. If we get Griffin, this team will honestly be a Dynasty and worthy to be the team of the president of the U.S. I was getting on N1 for his poor explosion and accleration and he has clearly improved tremendously..he is literally exploding pass people which is why he is getting the hoop with ease now and looking so slick hanging in air and relaasing the ball with his 40inch vertical while everyone else is falling back towards the earth...he is still hovering. Him and Blatche are going to be leaders of this team very very soon.
Javaris really has a powerful on court demeanor and its going to be interesting to see if its possible to keep this much talent at the guard positions..and throwing in a Griffin..shaking my head. Its going to be good times if stern allows us to get teh oklahoma boy. Getting the next Ak47 who can shoot off the dribble is not a bad secondary prize.

Ok, I haven't said too much but now its official. Your just randomly shooting **** out of your ass to see if it sticks to something.

[barelyawake]

"lmao at wanting to trade two future allstars. Blatche is a beast." And if Blatche becomes an All Star, I'll be cheering the loudest. Trust me, I understand the potential is there. In fact, I'm pretty sure Dat and I were the first to want him as our second round pick. I was on his jock about six months from the draft. I wanted Party John and Blatche. It's part of why I love EG.

But, stars don't joke around during losses. It reminds me of a guy who was on my football team who, on the bus ride home after a big loss, was the only one asking where the party was that night (while everyone else sat bleeding and pissed). Of course, Blatche has amazing potential. That's not the question. The question is, like with Kwame, what's the right balance of waiting on potential versus the possible value we could get back in trade. I'd rather have someone with half as much potential as Blatche with twice as much heart. Because heart = realized potential.

[Ced67]

lmao at wanting to trade two future allstars. Blatche is a beast. Quick first step, finishing ability, starting to show IQ level of songalia of both sides of the basketball.
Nick Young..starting to show the burst that Gilbert has and he has lockdown ability guarding shooting guards. I absolutely love blatche and Young. Javaris has awesome acceleration and strength..really looks like a gilbert with better passing and but less range on his shot. Actually Javaris looks like a young Arenas/B.DAvis. If we get Griffin, this team will honestly be a Dynasty and worthy to be the team of the president of the U.S. I was getting on N1 for his poor explosion and accleration and he has clearly improved tremendously..he is literally exploding pass people which is why he is getting the hoop with ease now and looking so slick hanging in air and relaasing the ball with his 40inch vertical while everyone else is falling back towards the earth...he is still hovering. Him and Blatche are going to be leaders of this team very very soon.
Javaris really has a powerful on court demeanor and its going to be interesting to see if its possible to keep this much talent at the guard positions..and throwing in a Griffin..shaking my head. Its going to be good times if stern allows us to get teh oklahoma boy. Getting the next Ak47 who can shoot off the dribble is not a bad secondary prize.

Please, please, tell me you're joking. I didn't really feel like reading the entire post b/c im a bit lazy, but I assume there's some sarcasm there, but if not, Im at a lost for words. Blatche has a quick first step??? He can't get past a lot of 5's in the NBA and he's playing out of position. And he finishes at the rim like he's a 6'6 wing. And when NY shows lockdown defensive ability, please let me know so I can see what your talking about. All I know is that he seems to be allergic to rebounding and passing. Again I assume you where joking so if that's the case please disreguard, but if not....I don't know.

[Ced67]

"lmao at wanting to trade two future allstars. Blatche is a beast." And if Blatche becomes an All Star, I'll be cheering the loudest. Trust me, I understand the potential is there. In fact, I'm pretty sure Dat and I were the first to want him as our second round pick. I was on his jock about six months from the draft. I wanted Party John and Blatche. It's part of why I love EG.

But, stars don't joke around during losses. It reminds me of a guy who was on my football team who, on the bus ride home after a big loss, was the only one asking where the party was that night (while everyone else sat bleeding and pissed). Of course, Blatche has amazing potential. That's not the question. The question is, like with Kwame, what's the right balance of waiting on potential versus the possible value we could get back in trade. I'd rather have someone with half as much potential as Blatche with twice as much heart. Because heart = realized potential.

This is one of the best, truest posts I have read in a long time. Look at DMac, this guy doesn't have the highest potential but he plays his ass of every game and I have a lot of respect for that. Blatche looks like he's disinterested on the court most of the time. Great Post!!!

[fishercob]

Javaris has awesome acceleration and strength..really looks like a gilbert with better passing and but less range on his shot.

Yeah, and I swim just like Michael Phelps, but with less speed.

You're obviously not smoking from a big enough bong.

[Wizards2Lottery]

I hate to be a thread nazi, but those of you are still getting baited into stupid arguments with WizarDynasty, can you please not quote this guy when you respond?

Those of us who have him on ignore would really appreciate it.

[LyricalRico]

At least McGuire is developing nicely. If he keeps improving his shot he could be another James Posey, just with a mid-range game instead of beyond the arc.

[dobrojim]

I hate to be a thread nazi, but those of you are still getting baited into stupid arguments with WizarDynasty, can you please not quote this guy when you respond?

Those of us who have him on ignore would really appreciate it.

+1

[dobrojim]

At least McGuire is developing nicely. If he keeps improving his shot he could be another James Posey, just with a mid-range game instead of beyond the arc.

He is.

He's sticking his jumper with fair regularity now. But lets not give up on the
possibility that he extends his range as well.

I like that he is now taking the toughest D challenge from night to night.
Even if gets burned like tonight vs Mayo, it's good experience.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Please, please, tell me you're joking. I didn't really feel like reading the entire post b/c im a bit lazy, but I assume there's some sarcasm there, but if not, Im at a lost for words. Blatche has a quick first step??? He can't get past a lot of 5's in the NBA and he's playing out of position. And he finishes at the rim like he's a 6'6 wing. And when NY shows lockdown defensive ability, please let me know so I can see what your talking about. All I know is that he seems to be allergic to rebounding and passing. Again I assume you where joking so if that's the case please disreguard, but if not....I don't know.

Ced, commenting on your assessment, I agree Blatche finishes like he's 6'6" or less. As for his step, I think for a C he is tough to cover from the free throw line in, and that he's got clever moves on the baseline (even if they are negated by his lack of vertical). I think Blatche doesn't have a quick first step, but he does give real good ball fakes and when decisive he gets past bigs with his first step.

What I like about Blatche is his basketball IQ. Dude makes some sick passes from all over the court. In the halfcourt and in transition Andray can really pass the ball. He's got good to very good handles for a player his size. And to negate his inability to finish at the rim over people, Andray has a feathery midrange shot.

My thought on trading Andray: Because of his youth and his contract, and because he's matured on the court and is VERY interested in playing better defense I'd keep Blatche unless something VERY GOOD was offered in return. Just because McGee is spring loaded, I'm not dumping on Blatche. If anything, Blatche hits weights and gets stronger as his career progresses. I'd want him to get Donyell Marshall=type range and rebounding abiliy

As for Nick Young, he's a one-dimensional player who doesn't have impactful games often THIS SEASON. But I'd wait til next season to see what he'd do next to Gil before I traded him. Gil's daddy coached Nick and I'm thinking they might have good chemistry together.

Bottom line is Nick seems to have a low BB IQ and to be real streaky. Kind of goy to trade because he doesn't give defensive intensity and is way streaky. Still, I'd wait to trade him because when on he's easily a 25 PPG scorer.

[lupin]

McGuire will probably develop just to the point where the Wiz can't afford to re-sign him due to the luxury tax and San Antonio (they'd love him to death there) swoops in for a $3-4m a year deal. Wheeee.

[MJG]

McGuire will probably develop just to the point where the Wiz can't afford to re-sign him due to the luxury tax and San Antonio (they'd love him to death there) swoops in for a $3-4m a year deal. Wheeee.

That seems way too likely, now that you've brought it up. I doubt it'd even take that much; guys like McGuire are ignored by 90% of the league, and he only needs to be offered a smidge over the minimum for him to get priced out of our league if we're still over the tax line. They could probably offer him say 3 years $6 million and snag him away.

[nate33]

McGuire will probably develop just to the point where the Wiz can't afford to re-sign him due to the luxury tax and San Antonio (they'd love him to death there) swoops in for a $3-4m a year deal. Wheeee.

That seems way too likely, now that you've brought it up. I doubt it'd even take that much; guys like McGuire are ignored by 90% of the league, and he only needs to be offered a smidge over the minimum for him to get priced out of our league if we're still over the tax line. They could probably offer him say 3 years $6 million and snag him away.

This is why it is of paramount importance to dump Songaila and Stevenson. I hope EG sees this. (EIther that, or I hope EG has received approval from Abe to exceed the luxury tax.)

[barelyawake]

CCJ, obviously I agree with everything you said. The problem is the team is imploding from the pressure of losses; youth; and lack of toughness and leadership. And I don't see Arenas coming in and changing that decline of spirit. I don't see a coach alone righting this ship. It will take an infusion of at least two new vets imo. And you can't get those without trading pieces away.

I'd love to see Stephen Jackson or M. Daniels; and JO, Brand or Camby here (as well as a draft pick). We have the pieces to do that. And if we can do that by only selling half of our potential, it will save our chance at a championship in the next three years. If you can do it without giving up Blatche, then of course do it. I don't see that happening.

Arenas/James/Crit
M.Daniels/Young/Second round pick
Caron/Dom/Gelabale
JO/Griffin/Joe Smith
Haywood/McGee/JO

That's my pipe dream. That team has a now and a future -- both contenders. I still think JO is our best option, because:

A) He has heart. You can say alot about him, but you know he has heart. And he leads by example by playing both ways. That is what makes for a team foundation in a big. Brand is too slow for our team (as currently constructed).
B) His contract ends right in time for whatever big we develop to take over, where we hopefully keep JO on for the bench.
C) He can probably be had cheaper than the other options.

[nate33]

I don't think the low morale on the team right now is irreversable. Bring back Arenas and Haywood, install a competent coach, start 'em with a blank slate next year, and they'll be fine. There's enough leadership on this roster between Jamison, Butler and Haywood. I'm not worried at all.

The toughness issue is the tricky part. With Jamison at starting PF, we're always going to lack a little in toughness and physicality. We need a true PF to replace him. I don't know if that's Blake Griffin, Greg Monroe, Andray Blatche or Chris Bosh. And I don't know if it means Jamison moves to the bench or gets traded. But whatever the case, JO isn't the solution given his age, injury history, and lackluster performance over the past 3 years.

JO is a role player at this point. He might be a pretty nice fit on this team as a backup PF/C, but not at $22M a year. We don't even have enough filler contracts to trade for him unless Toronto is willing to absorb the 2011 contracts of Songaila and Stevenson, or the 2012 contract of Jamison. I don't see either as a possibility.

Here's a comparison that might interest you:

Code: Select all

pace-adjusted per-36
Player           PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
o'neal,jermaine 16.8  8.8  2.0  0.6  2.3  2.8 .474 .526 16.0
blatche,andray  16.0  8.5  2.8  1.2  1.5  2.6 .485 .519 16.6

If that's how they compare now, I'm not particularly interested in seeing this comparison a year from now. Particularly when JO will be paid $23M and Blatche will be paid $3M.

[dobrojim]

thanks for an optimistic note in an otherwise downer time (wiz fan perspective)

[barelyawake]

I am replacing AJ with Griffin (not JO). I'm just allowing for timing and development (meaning we win while Griffin develops, thus fueling Griffin's want to win more). We are going to have to agree to disagree about Bosh and Blatche somehow filling a "toughness" gap. I see neither of them as tough. If you read the Toronto board, they are continually downing Bosh's lack of toughness (and in fact, they all say they wish Bosh showed JO's toughness and heart). And Blatche is being called out by AJ on a regular basis for screwing off. Again, stats don't impress me. You know this. If you would like me to say that Blatche is a younger player, who is currently playing at the same level as JO, though paid less... Well, that I will do. But, he's not a leader. And neither is Haywood or we wouldn't have the problems we currently do in the lockerroom. We're just never going to agree on this type of stuff, Nate. You'll say it's psycho-babble. BTW, Dom did end up being a tough player who plays with heart. I think that was my last bit of psycho-babble. But, I understand why you are saying what you are saying. Honestly, I do.

[nate33]

I am replacing AJ with Griffin (not JO). I'm just allowing for timing and development (meaning we win while Griffin develops, thus fueling Griffin's want to win more). We are going to have to agree to disagree about Bosh and Blatche somehow filling a "toughness" gap. I see neither of them as tough. If you read the Toronto board, they are continually downing Bosh's lack of toughness (and in fact, they all say they wish Bosh showed JO's toughness and heart). And Blatche is being called out by AJ on a regular basis for screwing off. Again, stats don't impress me. You know this. If you would like me to say that Blatche is a younger player, who is currently playing at the same level as JO, though paid less... Well, that I will do. But, he's not a leader. And neither is Haywood or we wouldn't have the problems we currently do in the lockerroom. We're just never going to agree on this type of stuff, Nate. You'll say it's psycho-babble. BTW, Dom did end up being a tough player who plays with heart. I think that was my last bit of psycho-babble. But, I understand why you are saying what you are saying. Honestly, I do.

I don't think we disagree about much. I like Blake too. We just can't count on getting that #1 pick. If we don't get Blake, what's Plan B? I figure it's to get a guy like Bosh or Amare if the price isn't too high. If that fails, we don't have many other options but to draft Monroe or Hill and let them compete with Blatche to be our future PF.

All I'm saying is that JO isn't part of the plan. His intangibles are nice, but not worth $20M. The only way JO makes sense is if we trade a bunch of crappy contracts for him. If we could trade Etan + James + Songaila + Stevenson for JO, I'd be all over it. I'd even throw in a future pick since Toronto is taking on 2011 salary. Unfortunately, Toronto has no incentive to do it.

[Ruzious]

I'm all for dumping soft players - 100% for it actually, but I'm very wary about adding a vet just for toughness. If you add smart young talented players, team toughness is likely to follow. People used to say that Tim Duncan wasn't tough, because he didn't want to play center. Caron Butler had Tough in his nickname - but now that things went bad, he's temporarily lost it. Losing breeds soft play. Just get better young players with good work ethics that blend well, and the team will get tougher. Watch Caron get tougher when he has Haywood back there to yell at when Brendan doesn't dunk with both hands.

There are exceptions - adding someone like KG automatically raises your team's toughness factor by his presence as well as his outstanding play - but how many KGs are there?

[Dat2U]

I don't think the low morale on the team right now is irreversable. Bring back Arenas and Haywood, install a competent coach, start 'em with a blank slate next year, and they'll be fine. There's enough leadership on this roster between Jamison, Butler and Haywood. I'm not worried at all.[/code]

I've got to disagree with you strongly on the leadership thing. I do like Haywood's on court leadership on the defensive end and we really see the value in that now that he's not in the lineup but Jamison & Bulter have both proven themselves to be faux leaders that seem more interested in getting their numbers and throwing the young guys under the bus whenever they can.

We may have leadership in Jamison & Butler but it's not very good leadership. It's leadership we can honestly live without. I've always questioned how someone like Jamison can be a good leader when he's such a sieve on the defensive end. What kind of message is that sending to the guys he's supposedly leading? Same with Caron, espeically with his me-first attitude, selfish play & whining about how he should be an all-star b/c its not his fault his team sucks. And in many cases, Caron's D has been worse than Jamison's this year and that's saying alot.

I'm honestly ready to blow this team up.

Aw heck, I've been ready to blow this team up for years now. I don't want to see the big three together in uniform again. Give me a healthy Gil & Brendan, Javale, maybe Andray & our high lottery pick and come with something different.

We've seen what continuity has gotten us. Last night was absolutely embarrassing. As a guy that has supported tanking this year, even I found the Memphis game disheartening. It was truly hard to watch a team on a 12-game losing streak come into DC and watch their young talent run us out of the building.

If Ernie doesn't make some type of move by the deadline, even after playing all these vets into the ground to supposedly build up & maintain trade value, I'm really going to start calling for his head.