Official Countdown to Firing"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld

[Ruzious]

Funny thing is, your describing the Bullets of 30 something years ago. I can remember this as clear as day for some reason. I think I was still in JHS. I remember a team that was making the playoffs every year but not going anywhere. I remember walking up the street after reading in the papar that they finally decided to blow it up and rebuild. Here we are all these years later. Closest we got to it looking like something was under Nash. He got us really close, then the Howard thing happened. Abe sided with Howard and gave Nash the boot and it all feel apart again. Then after all those years in the dessert, we got EG.

People can hate on him all they like but he is the best GM this team has had since Nash and before that it was a while since we had a good one.

There is a well written article on building an NBA champ that I used to post a lot and had in my sig. When it gets right down to it, most GM can only hold things together and build a playoff team. Great teams are largely built on luck.

How many teams passed over MJ and he was the key to success for a long time. Every other GM just couldn't get it done because they didn't have MJ. But even MJ couldn't get it done alone. He needed pieces around him and a coach that could manage him and help turn him into a great team player.

Turning a trash franchise around with a very questionable owner is no small task. Chicago oddly enough had a crazy owner but the GM and coach got it done anyway.

EG hasn't had it easy with Abe as the owner hand picking his head coach who he had to deal with whole time he was the GM of this team. He almost got us a great assistant last year but Abe/EFJ blow that for us.

I think EG has done an above average job given the situation he was put in. It's hard to tell if it was a great job because so many key pieces are injured.

There's a lot of truth in there - especially about the Nash era. But be warned - by mentioning him, you may have awakened a poster named greendale who hated/hates Nash and insists that Wes Unseld was a much better GM. I still say - if Robert Pack hadn't gotten that mysterious nerve injury in his leg... there could have been a championship team developed there. They had a whole lotto injuries in the Nash era.

I concur that EG is a solid GM - and - as you pointed out - there are likely limitations put on him by Mr. Pollin's interference - who sadly has no clue of what it takes to realize what he says is his dream - to win an NBA Championship.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

While Nash was GM, and in the early era of the Internet (right after Al Gore got the thing going) I posted on AOL (circa '95). Back then I proposed the Bullets trade Don MacLean to Denver for Robert Pack. Doggonit if it didn't happen days later! Pack had a real good run with the Bullets.

Also, I once wrote Nash a letter and he wrote me back. Greendale can hate him til the cows come home, but I will always respect that I got a well-written response.

(PS Nash wasn't GM but back in the early days of RealGM, I also suggested the Wizards trade Jahidi for Brevin Knight, well before it happened. Ah, the good old days when the Internet was like a two lane highway.)

[no D in Hibachi]

I think if Pack wasn't injured that whole team would have stayed together. There would have been no trade for Stickland and the team would have been a championship contender for 6-7 years. He was so explosive as a PG and was a damn good defender. I just looked at his stats and it is sickening how much he was injured. Nearly every season he played 22 or 24 games. In fact after he left the Wiz in 1996 he played 8 more seasons and only played more that 50 games twice.

[LyricalRico]

There simply is no excuse for this mess, look at what Miami is doing with just D-Wade and no center.

Wade is a superstar who does everything he needs to do to carry a team:

- primary offensive weapon
- fills the rest of the stat sheet
- plays defense
- leads vocally and by example

The Wizards do not have anybody who does all of that. Maybe guys who do 2 out of those 4 but nobody doing everything. The sad part is that we've got 3 "All Stars" who BETWEEN THEM don't do all 4! And without a coach to fill in the gaps we've got zero chance of getting any better.

[hands11]

Funny thing is, your describing the Bullets of 30 something years ago. I can remember this as clear as day for some reason. I think I was still in JHS. I remember a team that was making the playoffs every year but not going anywhere. I remember walking up the street after reading in the papar that they finally decided to blow it up and rebuild. Here we are all these years later. Closest we got to it looking like something was under Nash. He got us really close, then the Howard thing happened. Abe sided with Howard and gave Nash the boot and it all feel apart again. Then after all those years in the dessert, we got EG.

People can hate on him all they like but he is the best GM this team has had since Nash and before that it was a while since we had a good one.

There is a well written article on building an NBA champ that I used to post a lot and had in my sig. When it gets right down to it, most GM can only hold things together and build a playoff team. Great teams are largely built on luck.

How many teams passed over MJ and he was the key to success for a long time. Every other GM just couldn't get it done because they didn't have MJ. But even MJ couldn't get it done alone. He needed pieces around him and a coach that could manage him and help turn him into a great team player.

Turning a trash franchise around with a very questionable owner is no small task. Chicago oddly enough had a crazy owner but the GM and coach got it done anyway.

EG hasn't had it easy with Abe as the owner hand picking his head coach who he had to deal with whole time he was the GM of this team. He almost got us a great assistant last year but Abe/EFJ blow that for us.

I think EG has done an above average job given the situation he was put in. It's hard to tell if it was a great job because so many key pieces are injured.

There's a lot of truth in there - especially about the Nash era. But be warned - by mentioning him, you may have awakened a poster named greendale who hated/hates Nash and insists that Wes Unseld was a much better GM. I still say - if Robert Pack hadn't gotten that mysterious nerve injury in his leg... there could have been a championship team developed there. They had a whole lotto injuries in the Nash era.

I concur that EG is a solid GM - and - as you pointed out - there are likely limitations put on him by Mr. Pollin's interference - who sadly has no clue of what it takes to realize what he says is his dream - to win an NBA Championship.

Right you are. Pack was pretty awesome. He was never the same after that. You just reminded me of all the injuries that year and how they were putting it together come the end of the season. I thought that team was set for a good 3-4 run. Then it all just blow up. Nash and the little Irishman coach were gone.. The Wes/Abe show took over and we returned to the dessert of despair.

We had Rasheed, Webber and Howard. Georgie Muresan, Pack, Legler

This was his last year here.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WSB/1996.html
Webber hardly played. Pack got hurt. Sheed got hurt.

And in Abe fashion, Nash inherited his coach picked by the owner. A man names Wes Unsled. Nash had to GM around the owners coach who undermined him for 3 years before he got to pick his own guy...Lyham. A year later we were up 18 wins.

That's why I say to those who bash on EG.. leave it alone. If we are lucky, he will be the GM when the team gets sold and we have a new owner. I would be very scared if your counting on Abe to pick two quality GMs in a row.

The last time we were here, we were just a little to impatient and we changed GMs.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-832989.html

[mhd]

Quick question. Didn't Nash say that he was close to getting Kidd on draft night back in 1994?

[hands11]

While Nash was GM, and in the early era of the Internet (right after Al Gore got the thing going) I posted on AOL (circa '95). Back then I proposed the Bullets trade Don MacLean to Denver for Robert Pack. Doggonit if it didn't happen days later! Pack had a real good run with the Bullets.

Also, I once wrote Nash a letter and he wrote me back. Greendale can hate him til the cows come home, but I will always respect that I got a well-written response.

(PS Nash wasn't GM but back in the early days of RealGM, I also suggested the Wizards trade Jahidi for Brevin Knight, well before it happened. Ah, the good old days when the Internet was like a two lane highway.)

Ol Brevin Knight. He put in a few good years in Charlotte after leaving here. Nothing wrong with 9 assist and 10 pts in 30 mins. Nice to have a PG.

Well, all these years later, we finally got us a 6-5 200 lb PG in Crit. He is actually already putting us as good number as AD was. He is a better rebounder. He just has to get his FT % up which I'm sure he will now that he is calming down.

Funny side notes.

Blatche has played less minutes this season then NY.
DMAC has played 1006 minutes and has 169 pts

[toughjuice03]

Today's headline "Wizards Receiving Calls but not looking at major trade" WTF is he thinking if teams are interested in our players I say we deal them. There's a few players I'd like to stay I like just about everyone on the team, but its time to shake things up.

"I've gotten a lot of calls about a lot of our players and that's a good thing," Grunfeld said. "That means our players have value around the league. That means other people around the league value their abilities, but if you take the long view, we have a good nucleus of players and once we have all of our guys back, we feel that we can be a very competitive team. Now, you always have to consider any move that is going to improve your team but we like our group. We just have to get healthy."

The best part is the last sentence when will we ever be healthy? And when will we stop using that excuse? Every team goes through injuries maybe not as severe as ours but its something every team goes through and the better teams continue to play through them we just sit back and stink and use it as a excuse year in and year out.

[nate33]

Today's headline "Wizards Receiving Calls but not looking at major trade" WTF is he thinking if teams are interested in our players I say we deal them. There's a few players I'd like to stay I like just about everyone on the team, but its time to shake things up.

"I've gotten a lot of calls about a lot of our players and that's a good thing," Grunfeld said. "That means our players have value around the league. That means other people around the league value their abilities, but if you take the long view, we have a good nucleus of players and once we have all of our guys back, we feel that we can be a very competitive team. Now, you always have to consider any move that is going to improve your team but we like our group. We just have to get healthy."

The best part is the last sentence when will we ever be healthy? And when will we stop using that excuse? Every team goes through injuries maybe not as severe as ours but its something every team goes through and the better teams continue to play through them we just sit back and stink and use it as a excuse year in and year out.

I'm not going to bother worrying about the words coming out of EG's mouth. EG is a robot when it comes to media relations. He says absolutely nothing but cliches and general platitudes. Any similarity between his words and his actual intentions is purely coincidental.

I'm sure he's trying hard to dump Etan or James. I'm sure he's hesitant to trade away Jamison given that Abe and Arenas love him. It'll probably take a pretty good offer to pry Jamison away. I don't really have an objection to this mindset.

The one thing I'd like to know is whether he is making a serious effort to trade away Stevenson and/or Songaila. I think his stance on those two would be a good barometer on where he truly believes the team is headed. Is he isn't looking to trade them, it means that he is delusional enough to believe that this team as currently composed, when healthy, is a title contender.

[LyricalRico]

I'm not going to bother worrying about the words coming out of EG's mouth. EG is a robot when it comes to media relations. He says absolutely nothing but cliches and general platitudes. Any similarity between his words and his actual intentions is purely coincidental.

[Mr. Grundle]

The one thing I'd like to know is whether he is making a serious effort to trade away Stevenson and/or Songaila. I think his stance on those two would be a good barometer on where he truly believes the team is headed. Is he isn't looking to trade them, it means that he is delusional enough to believe that this team as currently composed, when healthy, is a title contender.

Or even worse, he is not delusional, and knows deep down that we aren't a title contender, but is content with just being competitive. That is my biggest fear.

But like you said, who knows what he is really trying to do. We might not know the answer until after the lottery, or even draft night.

[closg00]

Today's headline "Wizards Receiving Calls but not looking at major trade" WTF is he thinking if teams are interested in our players I say we deal them. There's a few players I'd like to stay I like just about everyone on the team, but its time to shake things up.

"I've gotten a lot of calls about a lot of our players and that's a good thing," Grunfeld said. "That means our players have value around the league. That means other people around the league value their abilities, but if you take the long view, we have a good nucleus of players and once we have all of our guys back, we feel that we can be a very competitive team. Now, you always have to consider any move that is going to improve your team but we like our group. We just have to get healthy."

The best part is the last sentence when will we ever be healthy? And when will we stop using that excuse? Every team goes through injuries maybe not as severe as ours but its something every team goes through and the better teams continue to play through them we just sit back and stink and use it as a excuse year in and year out.

Ernie Grunfeld, the master of talking while saying absolutely nothing.

[Ruzious]

Right you are. Pack was pretty awesome. He was never the same after that. You just reminded me of all the injuries that year and how they were putting it together come the end of the season. I thought that team was set for a good 3-4 run. Then it all just blow up. Nash and the little Irishman coach were gone.. The Wes/Abe show took over and we returned to the dessert of despair.

We had Rasheed, Webber and Howard. Georgie Muresan, Pack, Legler

This was his last year here.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WSB/1996.html
Webber hardly played. Pack got hurt. Sheed got hurt.

And in Abe fashion, Nash inherited his coach picked by the owner. A man names Wes Unsled. Nash had to GM around the owners coach who undermined him for 3 years before he got to pick his own guy...Lyham. A year later we were up 18 wins.

That's why I say to those who bash on EG.. leave it alone. If we are lucky, he will be the GM when the team gets sold and we have a new owner. I would be very scared if your counting on Abe to pick two quality GMs in a row.

The last time we were here, we were just a little to impatient and we changed GMs.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-832989.html

Yeah, and Cal Cheany (sp?) was on that team. Even guys like Brent Price and McIlvaine had their moments. Was that the year that Webber separated his shoulder... twice. And Gheorge always had a tough time staying healthy. It was odd how Nash's teams always had lots of injuries - same thing happened to him when he was GMing New Jersey. But he did seem to go off the deep end when he was the Portland GM - stocking up on Russian forwards and other oddities.

Mhd, Nash did make it known to Juwan Howard that he wanted Kidd - who I think went a pick before Howard. It was probably a negotiating thing - because the Wiz needed Howard to sign relatively cheaply. Nash shouldn't have said it - but Howard took like a sissy and blew it way out of proportion. It was hardly a diss - as EVERYBODY would have taken Kidd over Howard. Kidd was a phenominal PG prospect.

[Rafael122]

I wish I could be a GM and spend 10 minutes saying absolutely nothing of note but still get an article about it.

The calls could be seen as twofold: there's interest in Butler and Jamison, even with Jamison signing an extension, one could argue his deal will look like a bargain b/c he's only make about $12 million a year. Or b/c the Wizards are so bad this year, some teams are trying to fleece Grunfeld. I'm sure Jamison or Butler would be moved for the right deal. This was Ernie's way of saying: improve your offers.

[miller31time]

At this point, something needs to be done, whether it's trading Jamison or just trying to unload contracts like Songaila or Stevenson.

In-activity is something we can't afford.

[Severn Hoos]

Quick question. Didn't Nash say that he was close to getting Kidd on draft night back in 1994?

Yep, I was at the Cap Centre that night. Nash told the crowd that he had a deal on the table with the Pistons that would have sent the #5 pick (Juwan) & Don MacLean for the #3 pick IF Grant Hill was off the board. Nash would then have taken Jason Kidd (Glenn Robinson went #1).

What might have been....

(No Howard, no $105M contract, no Webber, no lost Draft picks, no big & young for small & old trade, no Mitch & Otis. But then we wouldn't have had that one playoff game against the Bulls in '97. And what a game it was! Well worth the cost! )

[fishercob]

At this point, something needs to be done, whether it's trading Jamison or just trying to unload contracts like Songaila or Stevenson.

In-activity is something we can't afford.

Inactivity is something that we internet nerds can't afford, but the Wiz can afford it. They're not in a position to improve the roster much before the deadline. If Ernie can make a deal to improve our long term financial flexibility before the deadline, he will. But don't expect the Wizards to do anything before draft night. The real test of Ernie's mettle is what he does between draft night and next deadline.

[miller31time]

At this point, something needs to be done, whether it's trading Jamison or just trying to unload contracts like Songaila or Stevenson.

In-activity is something we can't afford.

Inactivity is something that we internet nerds can't afford, but the Wiz can afford it. They're not in a position to improve the roster much before the deadline. If Ernie can make a deal to improve our long term financial flexibility before the deadline, he will. But don't expect the Wizards to do anything before draft night. The real test of Ernie's mettle is what he does between draft night and next deadline.

I wasn't being clear. I meant before next season. We aren't accomplishing anything this season, anyway, so making a move before the trade deadline won't have much of an impact, IMO.

[fishercob]

At this point, something needs to be done, whether it's trading Jamison or just trying to unload contracts like Songaila or Stevenson.

In-activity is something we can't afford.

Inactivity is something that we internet nerds can't afford, but the Wiz can afford it. They're not in a position to improve the roster much before the deadline. If Ernie can make a deal to improve our long term financial flexibility before the deadline, he will. But don't expect the Wizards to do anything before draft night. The real test of Ernie's mettle is what he does between draft night and next deadline.

I wasn't being clear. I meant before next season. We aren't accomplishing anything this season, anyway, so making a move before the trade deadline won't have much of an impact, IMO.

Agreed. I think what I'm rooting for is a quiet trade deadline, so more guys are on the market this summer. Though, I think there will be plenty of available talent either way.

[Silvie Lysandra]

Depends - if we want to clear salary in 2009, we have to make deals now, even if it's stuff like Songalia for Cook, or Songalia for SMEC.