Thabo vs the Weave

[Clangus]

The Weave at least wanted to play tonight - I think we can say that about only 1 other Thunder player.....

[wiff]

Seriously though I am still pissed Brooks just gave Thabo the starting spot. Especially after a game where Thabo simply had 2 steals and 5 freakin' fouls compared to Weaver's game of 19pts, 5rebs, 1dime and 2 thefts.

Don't you think you might want to ease him into the rotation a bit so he has a chance to learn the schemes?

Thabo had 30minutes, 7pts on 3-9 shooting and 0-3 from long range. 3rebs, 2 thefts, 2dimes, 1TO and a +/- of -29

Weaver had 23minutes, 16pts on 5-8 shooting, 3-4 from long range and 3-3 from the line. Along with 4rebs, 1theft, 1dime, ZERO TO's and a +/- of +7

Advantage
Weaver +2

Jesus is it too much to ask for a guy who hasn't done much in the league, to earn a starting spot? Even if it is over a rookie?

Sometimes I hate the NBA.

If Thabo is soo much better it shouldn't take him two weeks to prove he is a better player than Weaver, and he deserves the starting spot.

But right Weaver has been playing solid on both ends of the floor, why mess with the rookie's head like that?

[Big_Mac79]

I agree Wiff
Let Weaver start until Thabo proves he is better

[SD2042]

Have to agree as well. This move can mess with Weave's confidence. He's already learning on the go as is, but to just insert a newcomer to the squad less than a week after being traded. Not a smart play on Brook's part.

[AirP.]

Seriously though I am still pissed Brooks just gave Thabo the starting spot. Especially after a game where Thabo simply had 2 steals and 5 freakin' fouls compared to Weaver's game of 19pts, 5rebs, 1dime and 2 thefts.

Don't you think you might want to ease him into the rotation a bit so he has a chance to learn the schemes?

Thabo had 30minutes, 7pts on 3-9 shooting and 0-3 from long range. 3rebs, 2 thefts, 2dimes, 1TO and a +/- of -29

Weaver had 23minutes, 16pts on 5-8 shooting, 3-4 from long range and 3-3 from the line. Along with 4rebs, 1theft, 1dime, ZERO TO's and a +/- of +7

Advantage
Weaver +2

Jesus is it too much to ask for a guy who hasn't done much in the league, to earn a starting spot? Even if it is over a rookie?

Sometimes I hate the NBA.

If Thabo is soo much better it shouldn't take him two weeks to prove he is a better player than Weaver, and he deserves the starting spot.

But right Weaver has been playing solid on both ends of the floor, why mess with the rookie's head like that?

Thabo's only had big minutes a couple of months in the league... having Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon and Luol Deng in front of him ment him never really getting a chance in Chicago.

Thabo is a defensive player, he's not out there to be a good long range shooter. He's a guy if given 30+ minutes a night could end up playing very good defense(once he understands the system) 10 ppg, 5 rpg, 2 apg and 2.5 steals per game.

Kyle Weaver is a better shooter then Thabo and that will lead to more scoring from the outside, but honestly, the Thunder needs better defense and already should have enough scoring on the court with Durant, Green and Westbrook. The only thing Weaver really is better then Thabo is... would be shooting the ball from the outside and if that's all you care about, there's FAs out there that can do that.

The question isn't who's better now, it's who will be better next year if given the development minutes this year... I think you'll be much happier with Thabo then Weaver by the end of the season if you look at more then outside shooting.

[Big_Mac79]

The only point you have that Thabo could be better is defense
Something else you fail to mention is ball handling and playmaking ability
Weaver is much better at both these aspects
I believe Weaver's defense is not far behind Thabo's either
Weaver I believe has the better upside
I mean give him a couple years of non stop basketball and we will see what the progression will be

[AirP.]

The only point you have that Thabo could be better is defense
Something else you fail to mention is ball handling and playmaking ability
Weaver is much better at both these aspects
I believe Weaver's defense is not far behind Thabo's either
Weaver I believe has the better upside
I mean give him a couple years of non stop basketball and we will see what the progression will be

Well, I'm a Bulls fan in OKC so I've seen a bunch of both players. I've seen Thabo come in and be a Wade stopper in the playoffs in his limited minutes behind Hinrich, Gordon and Deng. I've seen Thabo frustrate Kobe into fouling out a year ago(I believe it was last year not 2 years ago), there's not many players out there who can frustrate good SGs like Thabo can... one of his biggest assets is his ability to knock the ball away from the SG while he's sizing up the defense to attack. The problem with Thabo is his confidence and it looks like Brooks is willing to put faith in Thabo to see if that's all he's lacking as a player, it's not like this team is looking to get to the playoffs, they're looking to build a better team in the future and this is atleast taking a chance in the right direction.

I get it, people are upset that a new guy came in and just took over a starting position without being the clear cut better player. But you guys have to realize a couple of things, there aren't enough games to really slowly put him into the rotation, this organization needs to see what they have by the end of the season to know if they need to emphasis acquiring a SG in the draft or free agency, normally with a high draft pick you want to draft the best available player, but if you have a huge hole at SG... maybe you take the lesser player to fill a need... but if Thabo is as good as they expect him to be(defensive player) maybe they can overlook that need and get the better player.

[Big_Mac79]

The question isn't who's better now, it's who will be better next year if given the development minutes this year... I think you'll be much happier with Thabo then Weaver by the end of the season if you look at more then outside shooting.

This was the point I was getting at
Weaver is 23 Thabo is 24
Weaver came from college where his focus could not solely be concentrated on his game
Thabo has had 2 years in the league to improve and has yet to do so
Thabo was a lotto pick
Last season Thabo started 22 games and avg over 20 minutes
I think Thabo was given a solid chance last year
Weaver on the other hand has only started 9 games and 18.7 min

[big L]

Perhaps Weaver is better going up against second string guys?

[AirP.]

The question isn't who's better now, it's who will be better next year if given the development minutes this year... I think you'll be much happier with Thabo then Weaver by the end of the season if you look at more then outside shooting.

This was the point I was getting at
Weaver is 23 Thabo is 24
Weaver came from college where his focus could not solely be concentrated on his game
Thabo has had 2 years in the league to improve and has yet to do so
Thabo was a lotto pick
Last season Thabo started 22 games and avg over 20 minutes
I think Thabo was given a solid chance last year
Weaver on the other hand has only started 9 games and 18.7 min

Last year in those 20 games he started..
31.7 minutes, 11.9 points, 5.7 rebs, 2.5 ast with 46% FG% at SG
Those are good numbers for a defensive player, if he weren't a good defensive player you probably don't waste your time with him. Defense is half the game... and to be honest, what the Thunder need the most of.

Oklahoma City is...
19th in offense at 98.17 ppg... with only 12 teams putting up 100 or more points.
OKC is 2 points away from being in the top 13 of ppg for a team.
26th in defense at 104.49 ppg... with 16 teams holding teams under 100.
OKC is about 6 points away from being in the top 13.

Defense is a bigger need then offense at the present if you want to look at it that way.

[wizkid27]

The other factor that contributed to Thabo's start was probably Kobe. That is a horrible match-up for Weaver (as he proved down the stretch with a few bone-headed plays). I think the two of them are basically on equal footing right now and will continue to be evaluated for the rest of the season.

[wiff]

As much as I like Weaver I'm all for starting who ever is the best at that position. That goes for any position.

The Thunder have 27 games to see how they stack up with Thabo. I really don't see a problem with letting Weaver start and splitting the minutes 24 a piece at SG. That should be plenty of minutes and plenty of games to get a decent read on them. And plenty of opportunity for Thabo to legitimately beat out Weaver.

But the message that Brooks sent to Weaver is thanks for all the hard work and effort you have been putting in like the organization has asked of you, but really it doesn't mean squat, because we traded for a guy who has almost identical numbers to you, but since he was a lotto pick you're S.O.L.

Bruce Bowen career high averages.

8.2pts 04/05season
3.9rebs 05/06 season
1.6dimes 00/01 season
1.4stls 97/98 season
0.6blks 00/01 season (he played 1 games during the season of 96/97 and had 1blk that 1 game)

These are very modest numbers(especially for career highs) and really don't tell the whole story behind Bruce Bowen.

Now I think it's safe to say that Bruce Bowen was a huge part of the Spurs success in winning championships. Yes he does all the dirty work. No their is nothing flashy about his game. But the guy played his butt off on the defensive side of the ball every night covering the best wing player the other team sent out. And personally I don't even like the guy but I have respect for what he brings to the table. But that is exactly the kind of guy the Thunder need.

If Weaver or Thabo could get the Thunder those numbers and bring Bowen's defense that would be huge.

Why do I have this feeling that next years starting SG for the Thunder is actually going to be between Weaver and Thabo? As it has been mentioned before this team doesn't need to score more they simply need to stop teams from scoring. And they are cheap.

Right now Thabo might be slightly ahead of Weaver when it comes to locking people up. But I think that margin is pretty small overall. Especially considering Thabo has been in the league for a couple years now.

Westbrook needs help some nights with PG duties. I have to say from what I have seen Weaver is far more adept as a playmaker and ball handler than Thabo.

Kobe torched both of these guys last night just like Kobe does to everyone in the league. Yeah Weaver got caught leaving his feet twice last night, he made some rookie mistakes. Against the best scorer on the planet. But he did make Kobe earn most of his points also.

I'm just scratching my head as to what Thabo has done to warrant starting over Weaver at this point?

Sure it's all about next season, but what about rewarding guys for still playing hard and working hard for this season?

[sonic-ben]

Seriously though I am still pissed Brooks just gave Thabo the starting spot. Especially after a game where Thabo simply had 2 steals and 5 freakin' fouls compared to Weaver's game of 19pts, 5rebs, 1dime and 2 thefts.

Don't you think you might want to ease him into the rotation a bit so he has a chance to learn the schemes?

Thabo had 30minutes, 7pts on 3-9 shooting and 0-3 from long range. 3rebs, 2 thefts, 2dimes, 1TO and a +/- of -29

Weaver had 23minutes, 16pts on 5-8 shooting, 3-4 from long range and 3-3 from the line. Along with 4rebs, 1theft, 1dime, ZERO TO's and a +/- of +7

Advantage
Weaver +2

Jesus is it too much to ask for a guy who hasn't done much in the league, to earn a starting spot? Even if it is over a rookie?

Sometimes I hate the NBA.

If Thabo is soo much better it shouldn't take him two weeks to prove he is a better player than Weaver, and he deserves the starting spot.

But right Weaver has been playing solid on both ends of the floor, why mess with the rookie's head like that?

DO NOT WORRY >> WEAVER IS MENTALLY TOUGH

[wiff]

Well Thabo had a better night against the Mavericks than Weaver had.

So that still leaves,

Weaver +1 advantage over Thabo

[BernardC]

with durant out, thabo is beasting on board.

[wizkid27]

Man... since Thabo came here and now getting to watch him a bit more... he's just an entirely different type of player than Weaver. Thabo is more of a SF that can play some SG and Weaver is more of a SG that can play some PG. Thabo's been an amazing slasher/energy guy the last couple of games.

[Mark C]

Well Thabo had a better night against the Mavericks than Weaver had.

So that still leaves,

Weaver +1 advantage over Thabo

After tonight against the Grizz, Even

Great game Thabo.


I think they both can improve greatly. Weaver, the rook, and Thabo is on a new team that is changing and improving daily. They juts need to solve their roles.

Im optimistic for both of them

[wiff]

I was hangin' out with family tonight so I missed the game. But looks like Thabo had himself a nice double double.

All tied up between Weaver and Thabo.

[Tommy Udo 6]

Man... since Thabo came here and now getting to watch him a bit more... he's just an entirely different type of player than Weaver. Thabo is more of a SF that can play some SG and Weaver is more of a SG that can play some PG. Thabo's been an amazing slasher/energy guy the last couple of games.

I havent seen the games that you mention, but based on Thabo's games with the Bulls, your comments seem correct. Thabo is more of a SF than a SG. Since Deng & Nocioni shared the SF on the Bulls, Thabo usually played out of position at SG. Then with Gordon earning & keeping the SG position, Thabo's minutes became limited. After Hinrich returned from injury, Thabo had no place to play!

[BernardC]

Weaver with 2 big threes in 4th tonight