Laker's supporting cast - over rated ?

[Silver Bullet]

I think team defense is getting underrated here. Getting good role players who knows how to run an offense is only half of the equation. If said players can't play defense consistently then having talent is not going to ensure victory everytime. Lebron didn't defeat the Pistons by himself, nor was he solely responsible for making the Celtics go to 7 games. He was able to do it because Cav's defense has always been able to slow down the star scorers on the other team. If Kobe was shooting 42% everyone would jump on him, that's how well Lebron was shooting when he played the Cs. He certainly didn't make the series close because of some innate magic.

I have always believed that Mike Brown is underrated in the last two years. As someone else said, you get a more offensive minded coach, he might make this team score 6 more points but give up 15 more. To be able to coach someone like Lebron and motivate the 11 other guys to play defense while getting minimal touches is an amazing accomplishment. Phil Jackson said to this day he still couldn't get Kobe to always play the way he wanted to, imagine what Brown, who before was just an assistant coach, had to do to get Lebron to follow his lead.

Thank You. You put it so much better than me.

[Silver Bullet]

I am a Kobe fan but I am a Lebron fan as well.

My logic is this:
You can't count on most of the Lakers to make a clutch bucket.
So other teams can clog the paint, specially in the 4th quarter - and double or even Quasi triple Kobe.

And you can count on most of the Cavs? Mo, West, and Boobie and thats about it, while the Lakers have Fisher. There really isn't much of a difference since the Cavs won't have more then two of those guys on the floor at the same time, and alot of the reason why you can count on those Cavs players is cause Lebron is so great at setting them up for good shots even in clutch situations, which can't be said for Kobe.

Kobe can't defend all 5 guys - like last night, if Gasol had managed to get a stop even once in the last 2 mins, it wouldn't have come down to a game winning play.

So Kobe's 5-24 had nothing do with it coming down to a game winning play? And it was one game against one of the best home teams in the league. I'm not saying Gasol is a great defender or anything, but this is a bit of an overreaction to a loss, and its ridiculous that you're not giving Kobe the blame for it. When this team is playing great, its "Kobe's the best player in the league" but when they lose and Kobe goes 5-24 its "his supporting cast is overrated."

Now individually the Lakers have good players, but I like the Cavs mix much much better.
I would rather have a team of Kirk Hinrich - good outside shooter, good defender, not a sissy
Kobe,
Kapono - clutch, deadeye outside shooter
K-Mart
Bynum

Talent wise, this team would probably be much worse than the current mix, but you have clutch shooting, good defense and a team that complements your one star player. This is exactly how the Cavs are built. If you put someone like Chris Bosh on that team, or Baron Davis or another soft quasi-all star, I think that team would get worse, not better.

Gasol is better then Bosh. Gasol is arguably having his best season as he's been a monster all year. LOL at replacing him with K-Mart.

I am not over reacting to one loss, I am over reacting to a team who gives up a 26 point lead in the Finals (and i think they blew huge leads twice), who absolutely did not show up for Game 6 of the finals, blows an 18 point lead in Game 2 this year, and would not have won if not for some lucky bounces.

And Kobe's 5-24 has nothing to do with it. I did not create this topic because of this one last game, I would've thought it would be apparent to anybody who saw last years NBA finals,that the lakers were thoroughly out-toughed.

When was the last time, a soft team won a title. I don't remember it ever happening.

[nonplayerzealot]

Who would Kobe prefer? Deron Williams' supporting cast or LeBron James' supporting cast?

I guess the proof's in the puddin'. De-Ron's is supposedly more talented, yet feckless. Le-Bron's actually wins games.

[Duiz]

Who would Kobe prefer? Deron Williams' supporting cast or LeBron James' supporting cast?

I guess the proof's in the puddin'. De-Ron's is supposedly more talented, yet feckless. Le-Bron's actually wins games.

Are you implying that Deron is just as good as LeBron, and that the proof thus comes in the fact that his supporting cast is best?

I don't know about that. You really are going on a limb mister.

[C'mon Cavs]

My logic is this:
You can't count on most of the Lakers to make a clutch bucket.
So other teams can clog the paint, specially in the 4th quarter - and double or even Quasi triple Kobe.
Kobe can't defend all 5 guys - like last night, if Gasol had managed to get a stop even once in the last 2 mins, it wouldn't have come down to a game winning play.
Now individually the Lakers have good players, but I like the Cavs mix much much better.
I would rather have a team of Kirk Hinrich - good outside shooter, good defender, not a sissy
Kobe,
Kapono - clutch, deadeye outside shooter
K-Mart
Bynum

Talent wise, this team would probably be much worse than the current mix, but you have clutch shooting, good defense and a team that complements your one star player. This is exactly how the Cavs are built. If you put someone like Chris Bosh on that team, or Baron Davis or another soft quasi-all star, I think that team would get worse, not better.

So the conclusion is this, IMO, the Lakers supporting cast is horrendously over rated and I will be very surprised if they can win the title if it's a close series - no matter what Kobe does. I think even Utah would've had a fairly decent chance of upsetting them if they had Okur.

LMAO. This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read. That team you listed wouldn't even win the West and would be a toss-up in every playoff series. I guess it depends on the bench though. If the Lakers are brining Odom and Ariza off the bench, they could still win the West, because no team has the luxury having reserve players of that caliber.

But assuming the bench is average, that team would be much, much worse than the current Lakers team and would have no shot of beating the Cavs. The Cavs would steamroll that team.

LOL about the Bosh comment. Put Bosh on the Cavs and its goodnight NBA for the next 5-7 years. Yeah, replacing Varejao, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith or Z with Bosh is really gonna destroy a good thing here in Cleveland. Please.

I'll take these "softies" who average 20 points all day over the "super-hardcore bad ass" Ben Wallace, or the "great role playing" Varejao. Give the Cavs Bosh or especially Gasol and they murder the league for the next 5 years minimum.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

Kobe went 4-25 in one of the top 5 toughest arenas to win in and he still had a chance at a game winner..that cast is not overrated.

[HouMac]

BUMP!

Damn that overrated cast.

[Silver Bullet]

My logic is this:
You can't count on most of the Lakers to make a clutch bucket.
So other teams can clog the paint, specially in the 4th quarter - and double or even Quasi triple Kobe.
Kobe can't defend all 5 guys - like last night, if Gasol had managed to get a stop even once in the last 2 mins, it wouldn't have come down to a game winning play.
Now individually the Lakers have good players, but I like the Cavs mix much much better.
I would rather have a team of Kirk Hinrich - good outside shooter, good defender, not a sissy
Kobe,
Kapono - clutch, deadeye outside shooter
K-Mart
Bynum

Talent wise, this team would probably be much worse than the current mix, but you have clutch shooting, good defense and a team that complements your one star player. This is exactly how the Cavs are built. If you put someone like Chris Bosh on that team, or Baron Davis or another soft quasi-all star, I think that team would get worse, not better.

So the conclusion is this, IMO, the Lakers supporting cast is horrendously over rated and I will be very surprised if they can win the title if it's a close series - no matter what Kobe does. I think even Utah would've had a fairly decent chance of upsetting them if they had Okur.

LMAO. This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read. That team you listed wouldn't even win the West and would be a toss-up in every playoff series. I guess it depends on the bench though. If the Lakers are brining Odom and Ariza off the bench, they could still win the West, because no team has the luxury having reserve players of that caliber.

But assuming the bench is average, that team would be much, much worse than the current Lakers team and would have no shot of beating the Cavs. The Cavs would steamroll that team.

LOL about the Bosh comment. Put Bosh on the Cavs and its goodnight NBA for the next 5-7 years. Yeah, replacing Varejao, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith or Z with Bosh is really gonna destroy a good thing here in Cleveland. Please.

I'll take these "softies" who average 20 points all day over the "super-hardcore bad ass" Ben Wallace, or the "great role playing" Varejao. Give the Cavs Bosh or especially Gasol and they murder the league for the next 5 years minimum.

Most people on this board have no idea how teams ought to be built.

Did you see 2000-2006 Team USA Basketball Teams get routinely beat by "less talented teams" ?

Do you remember the Knicks struggling to win 20 games, and losing night in and night out against "less talented" teams ?

[Bgil]

I am not saying they are bad players. Gasol, Odom, Ariza, Bynum are very good players, but they have no mental or physical toughness at all. What's the point of putting up 20, 10 and 5 if you can't put that up in games that count.

The Lakers have a mediocre defense and mediocre outside shooting. They have players who can't handle any pressure at all. So it doesn't matter how good their PER is.

Put Lebron on a team with porous defense, shaky outside shooters and soft players, not only will his team win less, his stats would suffer considerably.

Lakers made it to the Finals last year without Bynum. Ariza only played 45 minutes total in last year's playoffs.

Kobe has the BEST supporting cast.

Lakers' defense was 5th in defensive efficiency this season.

I think a healthy Utah and Phoenix are unquestionably superior. The Lakers have a massive hole at PG, one of the most important positions. Phoenix has HOFers, All-stars, and former MVP's at all five positions. They also have Barbosa and Barnes coming off the bench. IF their owner wasn't so cheap they'd have Deng and Sergio Rodriguez too (not to mention Joe Johnson).

[NO-KG-AI]

My logic is this:
You can't count on most of the Lakers to make a clutch bucket.
So other teams can clog the paint, specially in the 4th quarter - and double or even Quasi triple Kobe.
Kobe can't defend all 5 guys - like last night, if Gasol had managed to get a stop even once in the last 2 mins, it wouldn't have come down to a game winning play.
Now individually the Lakers have good players, but I like the Cavs mix much much better.
I would rather have a team of Kirk Hinrich - good outside shooter, good defender, not a sissy
Kobe,
Kapono - clutch, deadeye outside shooter
K-Mart
Bynum

Talent wise, this team would probably be much worse than the current mix, but you have clutch shooting, good defense and a team that complements your one star player. This is exactly how the Cavs are built. If you put someone like Chris Bosh on that team, or Baron Davis or another soft quasi-all star, I think that team would get worse, not better.

So the conclusion is this, IMO, the Lakers supporting cast is horrendously over rated and I will be very surprised if they can win the title if it's a close series - no matter what Kobe does. I think even Utah would've had a fairly decent chance of upsetting them if they had Okur.

LMAO. This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read. That team you listed wouldn't even win the West and would be a toss-up in every playoff series. I guess it depends on the bench though. If the Lakers are brining Odom and Ariza off the bench, they could still win the West, because no team has the luxury having reserve players of that caliber.

But assuming the bench is average, that team would be much, much worse than the current Lakers team and would have no shot of beating the Cavs. The Cavs would steamroll that team.

LOL about the Bosh comment. Put Bosh on the Cavs and its goodnight NBA for the next 5-7 years. Yeah, replacing Varejao, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith or Z with Bosh is really gonna destroy a good thing here in Cleveland. Please.

I'll take these "softies" who average 20 points all day over the "super-hardcore bad ass" Ben Wallace, or the "great role playing" Varejao. Give the Cavs Bosh or especially Gasol and they murder the league for the next 5 years minimum.

Most people on this board have no idea how teams ought to be built.

Did you see 2000-2006 Team USA Basketball Teams get routinely beat by "less talented teams" ?

Do you remember the Knicks struggling to win 20 games, and losing night in and night out against "less talented" teams ?

I remember young LeBron, Wade, Melo, Paul, Bosh etc, and some sprinkled in guys like Odom, Richard Jefferson, and Shawn Marion, a coach that didn't like half of the team, and young players that stopped listening.

The Knicks "talent" has always been terribly overrated, they never had a guy that should be the first or second option on a good team.

[Rooster]

I haven't read this topic other than the first post, but this has to be said if not already, or has to be restated if it has been said:

Pau Gasol is not part of the supporting cast.
Lamar Odom... maybe.

The others support Kobe and Pau OR Kobe, Pau and Lamar. Not just Kobe. Keep that in mind when you evaulate that team.

[Bgil]

Their bench hasn't changed much over the course of the season, but losing Radmanovic combined with the reduced play from Farmar and Vujacic is definitely an issue with the Lakers.

lol Radmanovic? He was a scrub who did nothing but shoot threes. Ariza is so much better than him it's not even funny.

Radman could play surprisingly good defense every now and then. Offensively, even when he wasn't shooting threes he was spreading the floor. The defense must respect his shot. Havign him in the lineup allowed us to use Ariza as a bench player and keep Luke off the floor at all. Radman is 10x better than Morrison is... although I love having Shannon because he fills a major weakness for this team.

[Bgil]

Who would Kobe prefer? Deron Williams' supporting cast or LeBron James' supporting cast?

Williams easy. He's playing with 3 guys with All-star potential (Boozer, Okur, AK74) plus Milsap, Korver, Harpring etc. Even their backup PG led the league in assists a few years back.

[Silver Bullet]

I remember young LeBron, Wade, Melo, Paul, Bosh etc, and some sprinkled in guys like Odom, Richard Jefferson, and Shawn Marion, a coach that didn't like half of the team, and young players that stopped listening.

The Knicks "talent" has always been terribly overrated, they never had a guy that should be the first or second option on a good team.

Right, but that was the Olympics - there was also the World Championships.
And what was Greece's roster, they didn't have a player who was even as good as Team USA's 12th man. Neither did Lithuania or Puerto Rico.

And the 00 Olympics team did have Tim Duncan, Jefferson, Marion, Iverson, Stoudemire, Boozer, Odom. The young players did not get a lot of court time.

As for the Knicks, Marbury in his prime was considered a franchise guy. Steve Francis was called Stevie 'Franchise', and was the main guy on a lot of Rockets playoff teams. Yes, they sucked, because it was a horrible mismatch of talent. Marbury could probably beat 99% of NBA players one on one in his prime, He could average 20 points/game in his sleep - but would you rather have him on your team over someone like a Shane Battier (6 ppg).

[Bgil]

- Gasol is the best #2 option on any playoff team
- Bynum is a top 10 C
- Odom is one of the best 6th men in the league, and is definitely the best bench big in the league
- Ariza is a great glue-guy
- Fisher is a seasoned vet who can play d and shoot

That's an excellent supporting cast. And while Gasol is a touch soft, the other 4 players in the starting lineup are quite tough (Fisher, Kobe, Ariza and Bynum). This truly is a great supporting cast, and it's certainly a better supporting cast than what LeBron is working with.

And for people who say they have bad team defense, they had the 6th best defensive rating in the league, and it was even better when Bynum was in the lineup.

Kobe has a great supporting cast, and guess what? The Lakers are a great team! I think it's funny that some Kobe nut-huggers are already making excuses, the Lakers could very well win the championship this year!

Gasol being the best 2nd option is very debatable. Tony Parker, Boozer, Ben Gordon, Ray Allen, Carmelo Anthony, David West, Hedo/Lewis?

Fisher hustles and plays solid team defense but his man defense is horrid. He is clutch as fsck though.

[Pharmcat]

i think sasha is garbage, so is luke walton

but otherwise, they are ok

[Silver Bullet]

- Gasol is the best #2 option on any playoff team
- Bynum is a top 10 C
- Odom is one of the best 6th men in the league, and is definitely the best bench big in the league
- Ariza is a great glue-guy
- Fisher is a seasoned vet who can play d and shoot

That's an excellent supporting cast. And while Gasol is a touch soft, the other 4 players in the starting lineup are quite tough (Fisher, Kobe, Ariza and Bynum). This truly is a great supporting cast, and it's certainly a better supporting cast than what LeBron is working with.

And for people who say they have bad team defense, they had the 6th best defensive rating in the league, and it was even better when Bynum was in the lineup.

Kobe has a great supporting cast, and guess what? The Lakers are a great team! I think it's funny that some Kobe nut-huggers are already making excuses, the Lakers could very well win the championship this year!

Gasol being the best 2nd option is very debatable. Tony Parker, Boozer, Ben Gordon, Ray Allen, Carmelo Anthony, David West, Hedo/Lewis?

Fisher hustles and plays solid team defense but his man defense is horrid. He is clutch as fsck though.

Billups ?

btw, the best 2nd option would be Kevin Garnett - EASILY.

[JordansBulls]

- Gasol is the best #2 option on any playoff team
- Bynum is a top 10 C
- Odom is one of the best 6th men in the league, and is definitely the best bench big in the league
- Ariza is a great glue-guy
- Fisher is a seasoned vet who can play d and shoot

That's an excellent supporting cast. And while Gasol is a touch soft, the other 4 players in the starting lineup are quite tough (Fisher, Kobe, Ariza and Bynum). This truly is a great supporting cast, and it's certainly a better supporting cast than what LeBron is working with.

And for people who say they have bad team defense, they had the 6th best defensive rating in the league, and it was even better when Bynum was in the lineup.

Kobe has a great supporting cast, and guess what? The Lakers are a great team! I think it's funny that some Kobe nut-huggers are already making excuses, the Lakers could very well win the championship this year!

Gasol being the best 2nd option is very debatable. Tony Parker, Boozer, Ben Gordon, Ray Allen, Carmelo Anthony, David West, Hedo/Lewis?

Fisher hustles and plays solid team defense but his man defense is horrid. He is clutch as fsck though.

Billups ?

btw, the best 2nd option would be Kevin Garnett - EASILY.

How is Gasol the 2nd option when he led the team in Win Shares.

[MasterRyu]

I think the Lakers cast is a bit overrated. They, including Kobe himself, don't really play tough defense. They have ADD. They can't seem to stay focused and and always blow their own leads. How many times this season have we seen them up by 20 in the 3rd only to be fighting for it in the 5 minute mark in the fourth. I don't think the team is even that athletic, and they don't have a true point guard. Shannon Brown comes close.

Kobe - The man, enough said

Gasol - Works well with Kobe and Odom. With Kobe, he gets a lot of open looks. With Odom, they get to play a little big-man give and go. Gasol has definitely improved in toughness, but he's still get bumped around when the paint is congested. Although equipped with excellent court vision for a big man, he can't protect the ball for crap, he tends to lose sight of help defenders and get his ball stripped away on too many times.

Bynum - He's definitely a beast when he plays smart. The thing is he mostly doesn't play smart. His defense, aside from off-man blocks, needs improvement. He doesn't seem to get enough rebounds like he should. Offensively, he got it going at the 10 foot mark.

Ariza - A godsend. A ferocious slasher, a defensive hustler (as in he hustles), and a decent floor spreader.

Fisher - A decent ball handler, very good 3-point threat. However, he doesn't play much like a point guard. He's primarly a spot up jump shooter, and doesn't have much of a passing game. He's a terrible fast break finisher. I cringe everytime he's leading the break.

So as far as the starting five goes, I give the nods to Kobe, Pau, and Ariza.

The Bench:

Shannon Brown - Wow, another godsend. He stole the job away from Farmar by actually making shots (even threes) and playing the point very well. I think he's the Laker's true point guard.

Luke Walton - Best thing about him? Passing. That's pretty much it. He can't handle, can't create for himself, and is a streaky shooter at best.

Lamar Odom - Long, athletic, quick, versatile. Definitely not a bench player by any standards. Worst things about him, though, sometimes he just disappears offensively and sucks at the line, especially in crunch time.

The Machine (only cuz I can't spell his name) - wow...what the hell happened to this guy. He was almost automatic from behind the arc last year. This year, no matter what kinds of looks he was getting, he just hasn't been able to get any rhythm going. Plus he is a foolish defender and guards too frantically, ending up with unnecessary fouls.

Farmar - Another struggling player. Ever since the injury he just cannot find a rhythm. No shot, no court vision, still lacking defensive focus.

Josh Powell - A very reliable mid-range spot up shooter, not unlike Garnett. Not post up game. He just seems to lack a certain drive.

Mbenga - Doesn't play much, but has a decent mid-range shot. He'll be a nonfactor in the playoffs by virtue of his lack of minutes.

Morrison - I don't know anything about him...hopefully he gets playing time. Again another non-factor

So for the bench, my nods go to Odom, Brown, and Powell.

So yeah, this team got some guys he can make things happen, but it's far from the often-hailed "elite cast"

[USA]

How is Gasol the 2nd option when he led the team in Win Shares.

Because he lead the team in PER.