Any question that Brady could put up Manning #s on Colts

[richboy]

After 3 games Brady with the most weapons he has ever had as a QB is averaging just under 300 yards a game. Has 10 touchdown passes and only 1 INT. Has Brady proved that if he had guys like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne that he could put up stats equal if not better than Manning.

[Wizards2Lottery]

Check out Randy Moss' numbers too. He might have the best year a WR has ever had. Hes on pace for like 2000+ yards and 20+ TD's. Freakin insane.

[Latrell]

Wait until they play some real opponents..

[El Turco]

i heart moss. i might support patriots just because of him.

[Icness]

After 3 games Brady with the most weapons he has ever had as a QB is averaging just under 300 yards a game. Has 10 touchdown passes and only 1 INT. Has Brady proved that if he had guys like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne that he could put up stats equal if not better than Manning.

There's two questions there:
1. Would any run-of-the-mill NFL QB (say Eli Manning or JP Losman) put up numbers close to that with those weapons in that system behind that line?

2. Would Wayne and Harrison look so great if they didn't have Peyton slinging them the ball, or would they propel guys like Derek Anderson or Phillip Rivers to Peyton-like greatness?

Special props to my wife for picking Tom Brady in the 5th round (and Randy Moss in the 4th) of her fantasy draft and wiping the floor with her competition 3 weeks in a row.

[NO-KG-AI]

We have to see the entire season first. Peyton has done it for so long, it's hard to discredit him after 3 games.

Oh, and NO-KG-AI said Moss was still the best receiver in the league, I want some dap on that one.

[NeedsMoreCheese]

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There's two questions there:
1. Would any run-of-the-mill NFL QB (say Eli Manning or JP Losman) put up numbers close to that with those weapons in that system behind that line?

2. Would Wayne and Harrison look so great if they didn't have Peyton slinging them the ball, or would they propel guys like Derek Anderson or Phillip Rivers to Peyton-like greatness?

Special props to my wife for picking Tom Brady in the 5th round (and Randy Moss in the 4th) of her fantasy draft and wiping the floor with her competition 3 weeks in a row.

While they werent gaudy Harrison put up good numbers with Harbaugh for a couple years didnt he?
No question everyone benefits from playing with someone great obviously but the measurement of how much is really difficult sometimes.

[Icness]

While they werent gaudy Harrison put up good numbers with Harbaugh for a couple years didnt he?

Two seasons--127 catches, 1702 yards, 14 TDs. Pretty solid numbers and consistent from year to year despite the team tanking in year 2.

I never think of Marvin as being 35 years old; I would have guessed 32 or 33 at most. As someone 4 weeks younger than Marvin, trust me when I tell you there's a huge difference between those ages. And I'm in good enough shape to play semi-pro beach vball.

No question everyone benefits from playing with someone great obviously but the measurement of how much is really difficult sometimes.

Exactly. That's why we get some good discussions here.

another tangental thought from looking up Marvin's early stats:
Marshall Faulk wasn't nearly as productive as I thought--barely 2500 yards rushing in 3 seasons from 95-97, 3.8 ypc, 45-ish catches a year but not much yardage. In my selective memory I think of his legendary Rams years and just assumed he had done it in Indy too. But really he only had one very good year in Indy (98), the rest were good but unspectacular.

[studcrackers]

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There's two questions there:
1. Would any run-of-the-mill NFL QB (say Eli Manning or JP Losman) put up numbers close to that with those weapons in that system behind that line?

2. Would Wayne and Harrison look so great if they didn't have Peyton slinging them the ball, or would they propel guys like Derek Anderson or Phillip Rivers to Peyton-like greatness?

Special props to my wife for picking Tom Brady in the 5th round (and Randy Moss in the 4th) of her fantasy draft and wiping the floor with her competition 3 weeks in a row.

your fantasy league must suck if they left brady (probably the 3rd best fantasy qb at worst) if they let him slide to the 3rd round. im sure you gave half the forum wood by bragging about your wifes fantasy prowess though.

[CircleCitysportsfan]

After 3 games Brady with the most weapons he has ever had as a QB is averaging just under 300 yards a game. Has 10 touchdown passes and only 1 INT. Has Brady proved that if he had guys like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne that he could put up stats equal if not better than Manning.

Perhaps, but he would still of lost in 03 and 04 to the pats just like peyton did.

[Harry10]

After 3 games Brady with the most weapons he has ever had as a QB is averaging just under 300 yards a game. Has 10 touchdown passes and only 1 INT. Has Brady proved that if he had guys like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne that he could put up stats equal if not better than Manning.

..... yes

it is that simple.

[Worm Guts]

Don't underestimate the Randy Moss factor. It worked for Randall Cunningham, it worked for Jeff George, and some people say it's the sole reason for Daunte Culpepper's success.

[Elway=GOAT]

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There's two questions there:
1. Would any run-of-the-mill NFL QB (say Eli Manning or JP Losman) put up numbers close to that with those weapons in that system behind that line?

2. Would Wayne and Harrison look so great if they didn't have Peyton slinging them the ball, or would they propel guys like Derek Anderson or Phillip Rivers to Peyton-like greatness?

Special props to my wife for picking Tom Brady in the 5th round (and Randy Moss in the 4th) of her fantasy draft and wiping the floor with her competition 3 weeks in a row.

I agree, ill say this, systems help more guys out than others imo. I dont think Manning would of down as well, with what the Pats had to work with. Just like I dont know, if playing with the colts offense Brady would of been better. Both offensive systems are build around that particular QB's strength.

[Harry10]

Brady is on pace to throw for 53 TDs.

Moss is on pace to catch 26 TDs and get 2149 yards.

..... i don't think Brady is going to break Peyton's record, but i do think he will get it in the high 40s. but what i think will happen, is that Brady is going to break Ken Anderson record for highest completion percentage in a season (70.55%)

i don't think that Moss is going to get 26 TDs or +2000 yards, but with the Pats defense, i do think he has a legit shot at breaking both of Rice's records of TDs in one season (22) and receiving yards in one season (1,848)

[Elway=GOAT]

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Perhaps, but he would still of lost in 03 and 04 to the pats just like Peyton did.

Thats arguable. Especially 04, I have never seen Brady come close to chocking the way Manning did that game...They went from the premiere offense in the league, to looking like the Browns. The Pats did have a very good defense. But if you are, an offense like the Colts ran, you have possibly the best regular season QB ever. Its unacceptable to score only three points.

The defense played well enough to win that game, the offense was the one that choked that game away. It was amusing, seeing him(Manning) throw his Oline under the bus after the game, and refused to take responsibility for it.

All I seen in that game, was a guy with happy feet(which he has worked hard on that, a noticable diffrence between, 04-05.) and had the deer in headlights look. Im not saying your wrong. Because I dont know. But I think its hard to say that Brady would of lost those games too.

[Icness]

Don't underestimate the Randy Moss factor. It worked for Randall Cunningham, it worked for Jeff George, and some people say it's the sole reason for Daunte Culpepper's success.

OMG a Jeff George reference that wasn't negative

I think Cris Carter and Robert Smith probably helped a little too, just like Maroney, Welker, Stallworth, et al are helping Moss with Brady now. Moss is much better as a piece to the puzzle, not the centerpiece.

[Harry10]

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OMG a Jeff George reference that wasn't negative

I think Cris Carter and Robert Smith probably helped a little too, just like Maroney, Welker, Stallworth, et al are helping Moss with Brady now. Moss is much better as a piece to the puzzle, not the centerpiece.

^ Moss is the centerpiece.

flate out, WR needs QB, QB needs WR.

[CBS7]

Brady will break 40 TDs and Moss will get at least 1750 yards and 18 TDs.

[Doctor MJ]

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^ Moss is the centerpiece.

flate out, WR needs QB, QB needs WR.

In general though, WR needs QB much more than the other way around simply because the QB has far more control of the overall situation. On all levels of football, I've seen top notch WR's careers fall apart when their QB leaves, the closest opposing example I can think of is Culpepper losing Moss, but remember: Moss fell apart after leaving Culpepper as well, and is only doing well again now that he's playing with someone who won 3 rings without having a star receiver.

I say this not to knock Moss, who when on is as good as it gets at the wide receiver position, but the nature of the beast is that receiver is the end of the assembly line and thus can only function when everyone else puts him in a position to receive.

[Harry10]

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In general though, WR needs QB much more than the other way around simply because the QB has far more control of the overall situation. On all levels of football, I've seen top notch WR's careers fall apart when their QB leaves, the closest opposing example I can think of is Culpepper losing Moss, but remember: Moss fell apart after leaving Culpepper as well, and is only doing well again now that he's playing with someone who won 3 rings without having a star receiver.

I say this not to knock Moss, who when on is as good as it gets at the wide receiver position, but the nature of the beast is that receiver is the end of the assembly line and thus can only function when everyone else puts him in a position to receive.

wrong... look at TO/Garcia, Carter/Cunningham, Moss/Donte, Branch/Brady, Moss/Brady, Smith/Delhomme, Rice/Montana, Rice-Brown/Gannon, Freeman/Farve, Walker/Farve, etc.

all those guys had period where they played together and didn't play together, and those dips in their stats and wins are not coincidences.

you can't put a bad QB with an elite WR and get something, but if you put a good QB with an elite WR you will get stats, and if you get a great QB with an elite WR you will get a championship.