Not signing/trading for any PF's...

[kd35sneighbor]

There were really solid PF's that were available... David Lee, Millsap, maybe Amare...

The Thunder not going after any of these guys must mean they are REALLY REALLY confident in Jeff Green for the future. Those PF's would have solved that position for many years to come. I guess they really see something in Jeff Green...

IMO, I just don't see any star potential in Jeff, but who knows...

[slick_watts]

most of the available forwards are either bad fits (david lee) or uncertain "rentals" (amar'e stoudemire). i think that paul millsap would have been a good fit for this team, especially at the price portland got him for. this was a situation where presti's conservative nature got the best of him in my opinion.

i hope they're just waiting for the 'right fit'. what exactly the right fit is, and whether or not it will ever be available is anyone's guess. i agree, however, that jeff green is not a long term solution at pf.

[Clangus]

I defiantly see star potential in Jeff,
if you cant see that what he can do for a guy his size is amazing then you haven't watched enough Thunder games.
Everyone acts like he was getting abused defensively on a nightly basis - he wasn't.
Everyone acts like he cant rebound. HE can. He (in just his first year at PF, put up similar numbers) to a guy like LMA (7.5 to 6.8) -also remember he spent a month or more at SF before the switch, that effected his overall reb per game numbers slightly too. Take that out and the numbers are even closer.

People are stuck in their small minded approach to basketball -that a team must have 5 traditional positional players, Its not true, basketball has changed. Teams often play with 2 PG's, some teams play a 2 at the 3. Centre's and Power forwards no longer bang away down low, more of them have range and finesse. The Karl Malone's and Charles Barkley's are long gone and the way Big men are called these days, they are unlikely to make a revival. The bangers get called for more offensive fouls than ever before because of floppers getting the calls. The game has changed, when will the wider NBA fan community realize this fact and stop judging players on thier Size and position and start judging on what they can do on the floor, and what they can to that helps their team. Jeff spaces the floor with his long range shooting, passes really well, plays solid defense, is fast enough to get out and run, is a team first character guy, he also has a good handle.

I'm totally sick of the Green is not the answer at PF talk. Clearly the guys who are actually i the know are confident in his abilities. Why can't everyone else see this?

[wiff]

Well the Thunder also have two very young PF prospect's DJ White played very well at the end of last season when he finally returned to the floor from jaw cancer.

And Serge Ibaka who was just recently signed and impressed in Summer League. He was a late 1st round pick in 2008 and was left in Spain for a year.

I thought they might make a run at someone but maybe the price was too high? Or they felt these guys are worth giving them a shot to develop.

At any rate I think this years Thunders team will be very competitive, the addition of James Harden alone will help that cause.

[slick_watts]

I defiantly see star potential in Jeff,
if you cant see that what he can do for a guy his size is amazing then you haven't watched enough Thunder games.

"a guy his size"? jeff green isn't that big. he's got height, but he does not have length. he's bigger than kevin durant, but he's not that strong. he's a great athlete. that's about it for his physical tools, because he's not very tall, has a low reach, and isn't very strong.

Everyone acts like he was getting abused defensively on a nightly basis - he wasn't.

from 82games.com: when jeff green was at pf his direct opponent shot a higher field goal percentage than he did, rebounded better than him; heck, jeff green's opponent at pf pretty much out produced him at everything when he was on the court. this shows that green has a deficiency: either he's offensively limited compared to his opponents at pf, or he's limited defensively. i think we all know which one it probably is.

Everyone acts like he cant rebound. HE can. He (in just his first year at PF, put up similar numbers) to a guy like LMA (7.5 to 6.8) -also remember he spent a month or more at SF before the switch, that effected his overall reb per game numbers slightly too. Take that out and the numbers are even closer.

jeff green averaged 8.7 rebounds per 40 minutes last season. here is a list of starting nba pf's that averaged less than that:

rashard lewis
al harrington
andrea bargnani

jeff green is not a good rebounder for his position, period.

People are stuck in their small minded approach to basketball -that a team must have 5 traditional positional players, Its not true, basketball has changed. Teams often play with 2 PG's, some teams play a 2 at the 3. Centre's and Power forwards no longer bang away down low, more of them have range and finesse. The Karl Malone's and Charles Barkley's are long gone and the way Big men are called these days, they are unlikely to make a revival. The bangers get called for more offensive fouls than ever before because of floppers getting the calls. The game has changed, when will the wider NBA fan community realize this fact and stop judging players on thier Size and position and start judging on what they can do on the floor, and what they can to that helps their team. Jeff spaces the floor with his long range shooting, passes really well, plays solid defense, is fast enough to get out and run, is a team first character guy, he also has a good handle.

except.. jeff green doesn't do half those things you listed. green is a decent passer, but he doesn't pass "really well". good handle? plays solid defense? what games are you even watching? he isn't bad as a ball handler but he's definitely not 'good'. and that's really the whole story with jeff green, he's not really great at anything. the only thing he does above average for his position is shoot threes.

people are not so much caught up with positions as caught up with roles. the thunder have a lot of perimeter scorers. they have a lot of good perimeter defenders. jeff green's strengths; the fact that he's a good shooter for his position and he can score some, aren't really needed on this team as much as what he's not good at: defending the interior and rebounding. it's for this reason i'd trade jeff green for kevin love in a second, because kevin love in my opinion has skills that balance the roster out a lot better. the thunder already have a pretty good forward who can space the floor, pass real well, defend on the perimeter, is a character guy and has good handles. and he does almost all those things better than green.

I'm totally sick of the Green is not the answer at PF talk. Clearly the guys who are actually i the know are confident in his abilities. Why can't everyone else see this?

he was not very productive last season. he's definitely not a prospect on the level of westbrook and durant because he doesn't have the same kind of tools. i don't know how you are determining that the people in the know are confident in his abilities, what else would they say publicly?

[Downtown]

I think Presti is being patient. He knows at best the team is going to be "competitive" and not yet ready for challenging for anything. He is sitting on a good chunk of cap space, 3 young players in Green, Ibaka, and White that will need to play to evaluate them properly, plus next years draft is extremely loaded with big man talent. It all adds up to not giving in to the urge to pull the trigger on whichever free agent power forward crosses his path.

[Ben]

Why don't you guys just offer to take on Boozer's contract in exchange for cap space? That would help Utah more than acquiring any particular player for him. They desperately need to shave salary, b/c every dollar over the luxury tax costs them double. I guess you could give them a 2nd rounder or a far-future 1st rounder.

Bayless/ Harden/ Durant/ Boozer/ Collison or Krstic, with Green backing up the 3/4 and Thabo backing up the 2/3.

If Boozer fit in well you'd be able to offer him the best contract in 2010. If not, well then you simply rented him for the year w/o giving up any assets.

As a Bulls fan I'd like to have you facilitate a Boozer deal to us, of course, but I don't know that we have any assets with which to make it worth your while and I can't see why you don't just take him for yourselves. I would root for the above lineup after the Bulls. I love Harden and have a soft spot for Thabo.

[slick_watts]

^ it's westbrook at the point guard spot.

it's puzzling that there aren't more rumors to this affect, this seems like a trade that the opportunistic presti should be investigating. it's a no-risk proposition.

i would be interested in tyrus thomas from the bulls but i don't see a workable trade.

[Ben]

^ it's westbrook at the point guard spot.

it's puzzling that there aren't more rumors to this affect, this seems like a trade that the opportunistic presti should be investigating. it's a no-risk proposition.

i would be interested in tyrus thomas from the bulls but i don't see a workable trade.

Oh, of course, Westbrook. Bayless has been mentioned so many times on the Bulls board recently that he's invading my mind. The difference is that he had a terrible rookie season and Westbrook had a very good one.

[mnkinga23]

Waste not, want not. When you have a finite resource, such as money, it is important to use it in the place of greatest need. We could debate the perceived hole at the pf position all day; but is it the most pressing need that the Thunder need to address to take that next step. You could say that Rashard Lewis has all the same holes in his game that Jeff Green does and all the Magic did was play for in the NBA Finals. It is going to be hard for Green to bang down low with the giant pf in the league and it is the same with Lewis, but the difference in the two is the center that is backing them. Dwight Howard erases a lot of the mistakes defensively and creates a lot of the mismatches offensively that allow Lewis to thrive. If Tyson Chandler's feet would have panned out, we wouldn't be discussing whether or not to throw 8 million at a pf because he would have taken up the slack in the rebounding and interior defense department. I think that the money and resources that would be given to bring in a Paul Millsap or a David Lee would be better used to bring in a better center. I also think that it is a lot harder to find a good center than it is to find a 16/10 pf. Who's to say that White, Ibaka, or any of the guys that we could draft with our two picks in next years big man heavy draft couldn't do exactly the same things that Millsap or Lee do but at a much more reasonable rate.

[Clangus]

I defiantly see star potential in Jeff,
if you cant see that what he can do for a guy his size is amazing then you haven't watched enough Thunder games.

"a guy his size"? jeff green isn't that big. he's got height, but he does not have length. he's bigger than kevin durant, but he's not that strong. he's a great athlete. that's about it for his physical tools, because he's not very tall, has a low reach, and isn't very strong.

Everyone acts like he was getting abused defensively on a nightly basis - he wasn't.

from 82games.com: when jeff green was at pf his direct opponent shot a higher field goal percentage than he did, rebounded better than him; heck, jeff green's opponent at pf pretty much out produced him at everything when he was on the court. this shows that green has a deficiency: either he's offensively limited compared to his opponents at pf, or he's limited defensively. i think we all know which one it probably is.

Everyone acts like he cant rebound. HE can. He (in just his first year at PF, put up similar numbers) to a guy like LMA (7.5 to 6.8) -also remember he spent a month or more at SF before the switch, that effected his overall reb per game numbers slightly too. Take that out and the numbers are even closer.

jeff green averaged 8.7 rebounds per 40 minutes last season. here is a list of starting nba pf's that averaged less than that:

rashard lewis
al harrington
andrea bargnani

jeff green is not a good rebounder for his position, period.

People are stuck in their small minded approach to basketball -that a team must have 5 traditional positional players, Its not true, basketball has changed. Teams often play with 2 PG's, some teams play a 2 at the 3. Centre's and Power forwards no longer bang away down low, more of them have range and finesse. The Karl Malone's and Charles Barkley's are long gone and the way Big men are called these days, they are unlikely to make a revival. The bangers get called for more offensive fouls than ever before because of floppers getting the calls. The game has changed, when will the wider NBA fan community realize this fact and stop judging players on thier Size and position and start judging on what they can do on the floor, and what they can to that helps their team. Jeff spaces the floor with his long range shooting, passes really well, plays solid defense, is fast enough to get out and run, is a team first character guy, he also has a good handle.

except.. jeff green doesn't do half those things you listed. green is a decent passer, but he doesn't pass "really well". good handle? plays solid defense? what games are you even watching? he isn't bad as a ball handler but he's definitely not 'good'. and that's really the whole story with jeff green, he's not really great at anything. the only thing he does above average for his position is shoot threes.

people are not so much caught up with positions as caught up with roles. the thunder have a lot of perimeter scorers. they have a lot of good perimeter defenders. jeff green's strengths; the fact that he's a good shooter for his position and he can score some, aren't really needed on this team as much as what he's not good at: defending the interior and rebounding. it's for this reason i'd trade jeff green for kevin love in a second, because kevin love in my opinion has skills that balance the roster out a lot better. the thunder already have a pretty good forward who can space the floor, pass real well, defend on the perimeter, is a character guy and has good handles. and he does almost all those things better than green.

I'm totally sick of the Green is not the answer at PF talk. Clearly the guys who are actually i the know are confident in his abilities. Why can't everyone else see this?

he was not very productive last season. he's definitely not a prospect on the level of westbrook and durant because he doesn't have the same kind of tools. i don't know how you are determining that the people in the know are confident in his abilities, what else would they say publicly?

Slick I long ago gave up listening to what you say. You never make any sense, you clearly dont watch the games and I am not in the habit of wasteing my time on hard-headed shortsighted fans.

[slick_watts]

Slick I long ago gave up listening to what you say. You never make any sense, you clearly dont watch the games and I am not in the habit of wasteing my time on hard-headed shortsighted fans.

wow good point i guess i'll have to reconsider my position

[Clangus]

Slick I long ago gave up listening to what you say. You never make any sense, you clearly dont watch the games and I am not in the habit of wasteing my time on hard-headed shortsighted fans.

wow good point i guess i'll have to reconsider my position

I got to your first sentence and knew it wasn't worth my time.

Jeff Green as I have pointed out on this board before, does have good size.

He is the about the same weight and height as half the starting PF in the league.
His Reach is above average, and the tools he has are better then most. If you wish to hate, that's your perogative. I don't want any part of it. I can see talent there and you can't. There's nothing more to say.

[slick_watts]

Slick I long ago gave up listening to what you say. You never make any sense, you clearly dont watch the games and I am not in the habit of wasteing my time on hard-headed shortsighted fans.

wow good point i guess i'll have to reconsider my position

I got to your first sentence and knew it wasn't worth my time.

Jeff Green as I have pointed out on this board before, does have good size.

He is the about the same weight and height as half the starting PF in the league.
His Reach is above average, and the tools he has are better then most. If you wish to hate, that's your perogative. I don't want any part of it. I can see talent there and you can't. There's nothing more to say.

there is when you're saying things that simply are not true. your opinions of his tools are opinions, but he certainly doesn't have "above average reach". you show me 15 starting power forwards in the NBA that have a shorter reach than jeff green (making him "above average") and i will never post on this board again.

as an aside, the average starting power forward height in the nba last season was 6'9 9/10". of all starting PF 6-9 or shorter, jeff green has the lowest standing reach that i can find. antawn jamison's might be shorter but i cannot find a reliable measurement for him.

furthermore, according to draftexpress the average power forward standing reach is 8'10.5". jeff green's standing reach is 8'7", which is below average even for a small forward. his lane agility and 3/4 court sprint were about average for power forwards as well so where are those athletic tools?

average starting nba pf listed weight is 248.2 pounds. jeff green's listed weight was 235.

so basically jeff green is way below average (bottom 15%) in size for a pf, and he doesn't have the reach to make of for it. you're entitled to your opinions of his abilties, but quit embellishing his physical stature because it really isn't up to snuff for his position at all.

[Clangus]

of course you averages, include the bigger guys like TD etc.

I posted these in Feb. I am not going to revise what they currently weigh and average, but it gets the point across.

"Here is a list of the starting Power forwards from the top 4 teams in each conference and their heights/weights

Kevin Garnett 16.4 / 8.9 / 6'11 -253
Ben Wallace 3.1 / 6.7 / 6'9 - 240
Rashard Lewis 18.5/ 5.8 / 6'10 - 230
Josh Smith 15.7 / 7.5 / 6'9 - 240
Lamar Odom 10.3 / 7.1 / 6'10 - 230
Kenyon Martin 12.9/ 6.4/ 6'9 -230
Tim Duncan 20.8/ 10.5/ 6'11 - 255
LaMarcus Aldridge 17.6/ 6.8 / 6'11 - 240

Jeff Green 16.7/ 6.6/ 6 '9 - 235"


So he's the same height as Martin, Smith, Wallace and heavier than Lewis, Odom, Martin.


He has a 7'1.25 wingspan and a 8 foot 7 standing reach according to the draft combine results. Terrible

[slick_watts]

of course you averages, include the bigger guys like TD etc.

I postecd these in Feb. I am not going to revise what tehy currently weigh and average, but it gets the piont across.

"Here is a list of the starting Power fowards from the top 4 teams in each conference and their heights/weights

Kevin Garnett 16.4 / 8.9 / 6'11 -253
Ben Wallace 3.1 / 6.7 / 6'9 - 240
Rashard Lewis 18.5/ 5.8 / 6'10 - 230
Josh Smith 15.7 / 7.5 / 6'9 - 240
Lamar Odom 10.3 / 7.1 / 6'10 - 230
Kenyon Martin 12.9/ 6.4/ 6'9 -230
Tim Duncan 20.8/ 10.5/ 6'11 - 255
LaMarcus Aldridge 17.6/ 6.8 / 6'11 - 240

Jeff Green 16.7/ 6.6/ 6 '9 - 235"


So he's the same height as Martin, Smith, Wallace and heavies than Lewis, Odom, Martin.

Jeff Green- 7-1.25 inches wingspan terrible.

all of those guys are significantly longer than jeff green. difference in standing reach is more important than standing height. you don't alter shots or block shots with the top of your head. all of the players listed have standing reaches of 8'10" or higher, and several have 9'+ standing reaches.

a standing reach difference of 3" or more is very, very difficult to make up. this means jeff green will have trouble challenging shots, rebounding over other players, and converting shots inside for his whole career against other power forwards. i don't know why you seem to not be able to grasp this; it's simple to understand.

He has a 7'1.25 wingspan and a 8 foot 7 standing reach according to the draft combine results. Terrible

umm.. it is terrible for a pf, and it's even below average for a small forward. you're infuritating..

[Clangus]

So first he isn't the same size and I am making that up and now you change you tune to say its his reach.
Oh and BTW one of the guys you were so keen to get to replace Green - Milsap has a standing reach of 8'8.5 - not so great either. By your standings.

Sene had a reach of 9"5 and was crap. Standing reach doesn't mean as much as your trying to say, and in any case Green isn't the T-Rex you make him out to be.

Next you'll be bring in more stats like"per" and average for 30mins and other such things. All that great stuff that means nothing if you actually watched the team play.

I'm not going to argue anymore about this. You have your position, which I disagree with. You have your "old school way of thinking about positional players in the League, which I believe died long ago.

Good day to you sir

[bad knees]

Bulls poster here. Sorry to interrupt.

If you guys don't want Boozer yourself, how about getting him away from Utah and out of the West by participating in a three-way deal with the Bulls. Plus, you guys get Tyrus Thomas. Here is the deal:

OKC: Tyrus Thomas
Utah: John Salmons, Jerome James, Bulls # 1, Phoenix #1 (from OKC)
Bulls: Boozer, Korver

Tyrus costs you $4.7 million this year, then you have the same options that you have with Thabo.

Deal is cap neutral for the Bulls, and they get their big.

Utah shaves $4.7 million off the cap, plus two picks (which they can sell if they want) plus an upgrade at SF.

[lim206]

So first he isn't the same size and I am making that up and now you change you tune to say its his reach.
Oh and BTW one of the guys you were so keen to get to replace Green - Milsap has a standing reach of 8'8.5 - not so great either. By your standings.

Sene had a reach of 9"5 and was crap. Standing reach doesn't mean as much as your trying to say, and in any case Green isn't the T-Rex you make him out to be.

Next you'll be bring in more stats like"per" and average for 30mins and other such things. All that great stuff that means nothing if you actually watched the team play.

I'm not going to argue anymore about this. You have your position, which I disagree with. You have your "old school way of thinking about positional players in the League, which I believe died long ago.

Good day to you sir

i agree!

[slick_watts]

So first he isn't the same size and I am making that up and now you change you tune to say its his reach.
Oh and BTW one of the guys you were so keen to get to replace Green - Milsap has a standing reach of 8'8.5 - not so great either. By your standings.

Sene had a reach of 9"5 and was crap. Standing reach doesn't mean as much as your trying to say, and in any case Green isn't the T-Rex you make him out to be.

Next you'll be bring in more stats like"per" and average for 30mins and other such things. All that great stuff that means nothing if you actually watched the team play.

I'm not going to argue anymore about this. You have your position, which I disagree with. You have your "old school way of thinking about positional players in the League, which I believe died long ago.

Good day to you sir

he's below average weight and height for his position (this is proven). he has the lowest standing reach of any starting nba power forward, which also happens to be below average for small forwards. yet you are still arguing.

you can't argue facts, and those are facts. believe what you want about green's skills, but his stature is way below average..