Sessions Update:Ramon signs T-Wolves OS (page 310 update)

europa · Post #141 » by **europa** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:48 pm

LukePliska wrote:I still do not understand why the Clippers want Sessions.

I don't know why he'd want to go there and be a backup for several years. Baron's contract is terrible. I'd be surprised if any team traded for him anytime soon. I know he's injury prone but at least in Milwaukee, he knows he has a good chance to start even if he may not be the long-term starter. He has no chance to start in LA.

LUKE23 · Post #142 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:51 pm

I still think it is completely about the money for Sessions, considering this is his first big contract. He'll sign whatever offer pays him the most, and I don't blame him at all for that.

Newz · Post #143 » by **Newz** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:53 pm

europa wrote:
LukePliska wrote:I still do not understand why the Clippers want Sessions.

I don't know why he'd want to go there and be a backup for several years. Baron's contract is terrible. I'd be surprised if any team traded for him anytime soon. I know he's injury prone but at least in Milwaukee, he knows he has a good chance to start even if he may not be the long-term starter. He has no chance to start in LA.

I agree.

It just doesn't seem like a good fit to me, from Ramon's perspective and really from the Clippers perspective either.

I myself believe you need a good third guard and Sessions could be that guy for them... But I don't see them reducing Gordon's minutes to get him in the game and I highly doubt Davis would accept a reduction in minutes whenever he is healthy.

europa · Post #144 » by **europa** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:55 pm

Yea I get the whole let's get paid aspect but if it was me I'd want the chance to start. I wouldn't want to be locked in for the next 4-5 years as a backup. I'd rather take a shorter deal, start for 2-3 years and build up my resume and then potentially get an even bigger deal as a UFA when I'm hitting my prime. If he plays well, he'll get that with the Bucks. He has zero chance to get that with the Clips.

LUKE23 · Post #145 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:57 pm

europa wrote:Yea I get the whole let's get paid aspect but if it was me I'd want the chance to start. I wouldn't want to be locked in for the next 4-5 years as a backup. I'd rather take a shorter deal, start for 2-3 years and build up my resume and then potentially get an even bigger deal as a UFA when I'm hitting my prime. If he plays well, he'll get that with the Bucks. He has zero chance to get that with the Clips.

In theory yes, but I don't think that's reality. I think most 2nd rounders that haven't made much money yet want to get the money while they can and then let it work itself out.

For example, I'd be shocked if Sessions negotiated for a $4M per year deal with the Bucks while leaving a full MLE offer from the Clippers on the table. If that is a four year deal, that is leaving $8M+ on the table. Just not realistic, it's the reality of sports.

Newz · Post #146 » by **Newz** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:58 pm

europa wrote:Yea I get the whole let's get paid aspect but if it was me I'd want the chance to start. I wouldn't want to be locked in for the next 4-5 years as a backup. I'd rather take a shorter deal, start for 2-3 years and build up my resume and then potentially get an even bigger deal as a UFA when I'm hitting my prime. If he plays well, he'll get that with the Bucks. He has zero chance to get that with the Clips.

I think we should offer him 3/12 to 3/15... Would be a great deal for both us and Sessions, IMO.

europa · Post #147 » by **europa** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:59 pm

LukePliska wrote:
europa wrote:Yea I get the whole let's get paid aspect but if it was me I'd want the chance to start. I wouldn't want to be locked in for the next 4-5 years as a backup. I'd rather take a shorter deal, start for 2-3 years and build up my resume and then potentially get an even bigger deal as a UFA when I'm hitting my prime. If he plays well, he'll get that with the Bucks. He has zero chance to get that with the Clips.

I think we should offer him 3/12 to 3/15... Would be a great deal for both us and Sessions, IMO.

I agree. And I think he'd take it - especially if he's not convinced the Clippers will come in aggressively. That's why I believe now's the time for Hammond to step in and try and get this done.

Newz · Post #148 » by **Newz** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:01 pm

europa wrote:I agree. And I think he'd take it - especially if he's not convinced the Clippers will come in aggressively. That's why I believe now's the time for Hammond to step in and try and get this done.

If I were him, I wouldn't be totally convinced that the Clippers are interested.

They have Davis and Gordon penciled in as starters at the guard positions and just traded for Telfair as a back-up PG... And they also have Taylor back there on a cheap contract.

europa · Post #149 » by **europa** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:05 pm

LukePliska wrote:
europa wrote:I agree. And I think he'd take it - especially if he's not convinced the Clippers will come in aggressively. That's why I believe now's the time for Hammond to step in and try and get this done.

If I were him, I wouldn't be totally convinced that the Clippers are interested.

They have Davis and Gordon penciled in as starters at the guard positions and just traded for Telfair as a back-up PG... And they also have Taylor back there on a cheap contract.

If Wells/Woelfel was the only source of the Clips' interest, I'd be more inclined to dismiss it or question how serious the interest was. But ESPN also reported Sessions is someone the Clips like. So I think their interest is genuine. How much they like him is the question.

BucksRUS · Post #150 » by **BucksRUS** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:10 pm

Sessions is better than Telfair and Taylor, so why should he care? There are rumors that Telfair may be moved soon. Taylor isn't anything special. Who knows the Clips may send us Telfair in a Sessions S&T.

europa · Post #151 » by **europa** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:13 pm

BucksRUS wrote:Sessions is better than Telfair and Taylor, so why should he care? There are rumors that Telfair may be moved soon. Taylor isn't anything special. Who knows the Clips may send us Telfair in a Sessions S&T.

I'd rather sign Ridnour to a Max contract.

Newz · Post #152 » by **Newz** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:13 pm

I would rather just let them have Sessions than take back Telfair... Unless their 2010 first is coming along with him.

Post #153 » by **paulpressey25** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:28 pm

Frankly I'm still bummed that we aren't talking about Batum. I gave that thread last night 125 percent cred once I saw Europa was the one posting it.

Ten minutes of pure giddyness.

This is like 10 guys sitting around the barbershop waiting for something to happen.

europa · Post #154 » by **europa** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:31 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:Frankly I'm still bummed that we aren't talking about Batum. I gave that thread last night 125 percent cred once I saw Europa was the one posting it.

Sorry. That DID NOT come from me just so everyone knows that.

LUKE23 · Post #155 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:38 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:Frankly I'm still bummed that we aren't talking about Batum. I gave that thread last night 125 percent cred once I saw Europa was the one posting it.

Ten minutes of pure giddyness.

This is like 10 guys sitting around the barbershop waiting for something to happen.

I think we're going to be very underwhelmed with how the offseason turns out. I still have visions of Ridnour starting ahead of Jennings in my head right now, and Bowen traded for some $3.5M junk that doesn't help us.

Post #156 » by **paulpressey25** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:40 pm

Oh we know that. We all got punked. Ha ha. I just saw the thread title on my blackberry and couldn't delve more. It was so glorious.

Maybe for today we should just unlock it and pretend it is real. Confound the Portland guys.

blueedwards · Post #157 » by **blueedwards** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:46 pm

Did 76ers sign a free agent pg yet? Thought they were trading Miller or just going after Bibby? Is it possible there the third team after Sessions?

europa · Post #158 » by **europa** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:51 pm

blueedwards wrote:Did 76ers sign a free agent pg yet? Thought they were trading Miller or just going after Bibby? Is it possible there the third team after Sessions?

They drafted Holiday. He's their PG of the future. They could be interested in a veteran stopgap and if they deal Miller to Portland, I'd expect Blake to be part of that deal.

Post #159 » by **blkout** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:14 pm

crkone wrote:http://www.82games.com/0809/08NYK16.HTM#bypos

66% of available minutes went to Lee at center. His opponent PER was 19.7, while his PER was 22.0. He only played 4% of available minutes at PF and gave up a PER of 21.8 and had one of 11.5. Not good at all if you trust these stats.

I think I mentioned this to AussieBuck in another thread, those sort of stats are misleading for a number of reasons. Plus I'm not a fan of PER. I like stop% and such but I can't find any of those stats.

Bernman · Post #160 » by **Bernman** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:37 pm

Citizen.Eras3d wrote:
crkone wrote:http://www.82games.com/0809/08NYK16.HTM#bypos

66% of available minutes went to Lee at center. His opponent PER was 19.7, while his PER was 22.0. He only played 4% of available minutes at PF and gave up a PER of 21.8 and had one of 11.5. Not good at all if you trust these stats.

I think I mentioned this to AussieBuck in another thread, those sort of stats are misleading for a number of reasons. Plus I'm not a fan of PER. I like stop% and such but I can't find any of those stats.

In point of fact PER differential is the best advanced metric available to judge a player's overall individual contributions on the game. It works better for some positions than others, namely every one but point guard (and to a lesser degree center due to shot altering), because that position has the most intense intangible effect on the game due to their vast variations in how quickly they get their team into the offense, handle the ball in general, feed the hot player, penetrate and kick which could lead to a secondary assist, etc.; but it's the best we have because it takes into account the efficiency, usage level, man to man defense, and can weed out system players by gaging what opponents do in the same style.

From studying both major catch-all advanced statistics, win-scores and PER differential, I value win-scores somewhat, but PER differential produces far less anomalies, closely mirroring what I see when watching a player. And if PER differential doesn't always paint the clearest picture on a player, other statistics that 82games.com provides, like on/off +/-, to create Roland Rating, makes it even less muddled. http://www.82games.com/0809/ROLRTG8.HTM If you separate starters from subs, that's a pretty damn valid list.

82games has basically proven over the years that Lee allows almost as much as he contributes, and seeing as though he's playing against bench players a portion of the time, that indicates he's a mediocre to average level starter, ala RLR was for us. To award him anywhere near 8 million dollars per year, would be a mistake. It's funny, some of the same people endorsing that plan, also have preached the need to be financially responsible in regards to Ramon. If Lee appeared on your TV's on a semi nightly basis also, you'd have ample amount of time to micro analyze every one of his flaws.