Lion need is a QB.... Pick 1 of 6 choices

[Bartender]

PERFECT post. I agree 1,000,000%.

[ajaX82]

I echo Ice's words to a T

Nice to hear a voice of reason

[Liqourish]

+1,000,000

Me, Ajax and Bar have said this all along. Somehow, a couple people just can't understand this. Glad to have more people around who are insightful and knowledgable on the subject.

[TSE]

The Lions just had the best draft class in team history and you want to rip Mayhew? They got 5 legit NFL starters and a very good special teamer. Delmas is a Pro Bowl player, Pettigrew will be a borderline Pro Bowler if healthy, Stafford is a true leader and played through a lot of injuries and still showed lots of promise. Levy is the best MLB since Earl Holmes' 1st year and he's only going to get better.

If you're not sold on Stafford that's fine, but if you want a replacement or competition you sure as heck don't want it from the draft. He needs, and will get, an upgraded veteran mentor/pusher, likely Kerry Collins. In his first year Stafford showed a heck of a lot more than most first-year QBs. He's not going to be an All Pro right away, certainly not behind that line with those receivers.

Stop listening to the Huge Show and step back for a minute. This team has progressed light years in the last 12 months, and Martin Mayhew deserves a lot of that credit, so does Jim Schwartz. It's real funny--people in MIchigan are so darn negative towards those two but across the league they are extremely respected for what they've done so quickly with so little to work with. They replaced 37 players and of those 37 departures only 7 made another active roster last year, that's how freaking deep the hole was.

Progressed? Light years?!?!??! This team has done everything wrong, every step of the way. And you are on their side? How dare you? Are you even a Lion's fan? We had a 2 win and 0 win season because of Mayhew! And we aren't in good shape next year or for the next 10 years and we could be in great shape today for those ranges if we made smart decisions!! How can you not see that??? This is an absolutely atrocious position to be in. The picks are good because we have lots of high picks you knucklehead, and we still haven't cracked the SB, and not even come close. It's because of Mayhew and anybody else that is empowered to make bad decisions. That's what's wrong with this team, it's so obvious to any person of a brilliantly logical mind. Wake up from your dream dude!

[Bartender]

How is Mayhew responsible for the 0 win season? He had no control over that year.

[TSE]

How is Mayhew responsible for the 0 win season? He had no control over that year.

Yeah I doubt it. I don't know how much control he had, but he was part of it. I can't give you the exact percentage proportion of blame to assign him w/o doing a full investigation into the matter. But he was responsible at least in some part, and probably a LOT more than you realize.

[Bartender]

First thing Mayhew did when he got in office was trade Roy Williams for 3 draft picks which landed us our franchise TE and franchise MLB.

After that, all he could do is sit back in office and wait til offseason.

2nd thing he did was draft the best draft class in Lions history and then trade for a bonafied veteran LB and signed a bonafied veteran LB.

C'mon dude. Matt Millen messed up this team. Mayhew had to COMPLETELY clean house! That's like taking a house that got abandoned and has roaches and rotten wood 'n ****. He has to go in there and COMPLETELY turn that house around by himself. Regular expectations would be, it will take him a while to turn it around. YOUR expectations would be to get that house fixed in a week. That's not fair.

[TSE]

He didn't clean the house! We have 40 players on this team that we could do without. He didn't clean anything. He just swept our problems from one area to another, and the whole problem is the same. WE NEED A GM TO COME IN HERE AND CLEAN HOUSE!

And my expectations are FAIR, they are goals I would hit. I back up my claims. I would work for less money than Mayhew and I would put it all on a full guarantee that I deliver, because I have confidence that I can and trust that I will. Mayhew gets paid regardless, and he isn't helping our team, he's destroying an opportunity for us to have an elite franchise. What's not fair is for Detroit fans to continue to suffer when the NFL gives MASSIVE advantages to teams that suck. We should have all clear skies ahead by now through PROPER LONG TERM PLANNING. Mayhew has NO LOGICAL plan and we are in a TERRIBLE state compared to what we would have if I was in charge. I would have the same team we have but MANY extra holes already filled.

There are TONS of problems with this team, but Ford only needs to REPLACE ONE PERSON to fix it all, and that person is Martin Mayhew. That's all we have to do is get one brilliant person in charge of all operations, and problem solved. To stay the course with this asinine repeating of the same mistakes EVERY year is just crazy. Mayhew learned nothing from Millen's mistakes, in fact he's making the same TYPES of decisions that I would expect Millen to make. I don't see any difference in what our team would look like if Millen was still here. It would be very close to the same result. Same crappy strategies and same failure to optimize the franchise into a logical and efficient design.

[Piston Pete]

TSE, your wanting to get rid of Mayhew makes you look ignorant.

Just stop, please. PLEASE.

1) He was not responsible for the 0-16 season. Millen was the GM here for that season - got fired mid-season....

2) Mayhew took over a team that was arguably the worst team in the NFL between 2000-2009, and a team that just finished their 0-16 season. It will take time to turn this thing around....

3) How did Mayhew NOT clean house? We had more new players to the team last season than hold-overs. I'm beyond baffled by your logic.

[TSE]

Because, ALL these guys he brought in, minus our draft picks, are ALL the guys I wanted to replace before the season started! It does no good to clean house if you bring in guys who aren't any better than the last crew! We have 40-45 guys on this team we can afford to lose. Same as last year and every year for the last 10 years just about. Mayhew has made roughly ZERO progress in killing our internal disease, and I can guarantee you he won't make much progress this year, because it would take a mass volume shakeup, one that he also could have done this year but chose not to do, so I don't see him adopting that philosophy now. He's going to stick to his Millenesque guns and keep driving our team forward, despite the fact that we've hit a brick wall and there's nowhere to go under this concept of his.

[Bartender]

So, because there are players on the team that you want to get rid of makes him a bad GM? That's wrong, sir. In fact, that makes YOU the bad GM. You have no knowledge of certain players. You don't and can't evaluate players like Mayhew and Schwartz can but you justify your logic as greater then others. You want to get rid of these players and sign these players but in reality, you have NO idea what they do at practice, work outs, or prolly even games. You want to drop 40-45 guys, but who are we going to pick up to replace them? Guys that can't find a gig anywhere else in the NFL? You know that there are only 57 players on an NFL roster, and you want to get rid of all but 13 guys? You HONESTLY expect to sign 40-45 players off waivers that get cut from other teams to come into Detroit and make the Lions a playoff team?

Bro, THATTTTTTTT logic is (Please Use More Appropriate Word) and I HIGHLYYYYYYY question your football knowledge.

[TSE]

You have struggled following some of my points in the past on very simple things Bartender, thus it is no surprise that you automatically dismiss my ideas. The guys that we would have on the team this year that can help us are guys we would have acquired from the material gained from trading ALL of those guys last year, so that whatever their value was to play out the season last year, THAT value is converted into this season. I would have used last year as a transition year and sold out in a fire sale fashion so that we don't have to have a repeat of more lousy seasons, which is exactly what we did and also exactly what we are still at risk for next year and every next year until we can get in good shape in a present year.

You may not understand my ideas and may want to be skeptical, and that's cool, but I assure you, no matter how much you dislike me or my ideas, my logic is sound, it is unbeatable, you can only tie it at best, and that logic will work for fixing a broken football franchise. Mayhew, I'm sorry to say, is in WAY over his head. He just does not possess the mental faculties that it takes to go from 0-16 to 16-0 or close to it and in an expeditious fashion. We need somebody with ingenious brain power making the decisions. I'm sorry if that offends Mayhew, but it is the fact of the matter. You just can't give up the stuff that he gives up. We need to make perfect decisions that make sense. It's not about every player panning out, it's about every player having a logical reason for being a part of this team. That's what Mayhew doesn't get. He just doesn't see this "game" the right way. If I could have a few hours of his time I could train him to be a near flawless GM. It's not like I possess some magical ability that isn't teachable. I could take just about any passionate football person with a 100 IQ or higher (ideally 120 min, but not necessarily required) and train them into a GM with at least minimum levels of logic quality.

That's not to say that if I was GM tomorrow that I would automatically fire Mayhew. I would hope that he would be interested in working with me so that I could pick his brain. I'm sure he's a wealth of knowledge and for any new person in the position he would be a great guide for general orientation and assimilation into the culture and community of the GM world. My first priority of business as GM would be to try and secure Mayhew as my Asst GM so that I could assimilate everything he knows about our operation and use that to facilitate my transformation process. We'd make a helluva team if he'd be down for it. But getting me in that top spot is the critical thing that has to happen first. There are too many house cleaning items that must be done if we want to achieve greatness.

[Bartender]

Trading is your answer to everything but this isn't the NBA or MLB. Trading doesn't happen that much. A lot of teams HATE the idea of trading. Some just DONT do it. There are probable a max of 10 trades a year, and most of those are low profile trades. If you were GM, you'd spend ALL your time trying to trade players and finding a trade partner instead of putting your head where it needs to be... which is finding ways to make THIS team work. Do you HONESTLY think that there are teams out there that will trade for Matt Stafford? The only teams that need Stafford are STL, Washington, and Jacksonville... but WHO is going to match Stafford's (One of the highest in the league) salary? NOBODY!!! If Mayhew followed your 'logic' and spent all his time trying to trade 40-45 guys on this team, I would peel the brains out of my head!


And another thing, if the DETROIT LIONS don't want these players, what makes you think other teams would be willing to trade for them?

I'm telling you this man-to-man. This is how the NFL works. Teams don't go around looking for trades unless it's for high profile players. One example is Willis McGahee. He's only six years into the league and he is still DAMN good. His salary is 3.6 million per year. With a non cap year coming, Baltimore is more then likely going to release him since he's a backup with a big salary and it won't hurt them any. Now, there are going to be 25 teams interested in McGahee, so why do you think that Baltimore won't just trade him? It's cuz teams won't trade for him. They'll wait 'til he's released and then throw contracts at him. That's just the way it is in the NFL, dude. If a team wants to trade a player, 9 times out of 10 they'll release him. That one time is for players like Anquan Boldin, Brandon Marshall, Randy Moss, Clinton Portis, etc. The 40-45 players that you want to trade are not those players so they WONT and CANT be traded.

Basically, if you were GM, you'd try to change the way things work in the NFL.

[kellmellus50]

TSE your 100 % right in your assesment of the Lions.

Here,s a perfect example how Detroit screws up they release a good CB go like Leigh Bodden and pick up worse ones off the wavier wire to replace him ? go Figure.

He has 5 ints for new england and 56 tackles, the lions let him go they do not know talent in cornerbacks

The lions traded the best player they had at the time for him in rodgers,now they have nothing in return instead of letting him go for nothing the lions should have traded him to get something back or should have keeped him.

Detroit changed many players and ended up being a wash,they gave away good and bad talent and got back good and bad talent.

[Bartender]

We didn't release him. He was a RFA and we didn't match NE's offer cuz they overpaid for him. Leigh Bodden also wasn't a good fit in the defensive scheme Detroit was trying to run. He's more of a cover zone corner, not a speedy one which is key for the Tampa 2. Blame the head coach that tried forcing the Tampa 2 on us, not ownership. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Leigh. He was one of the best DB's in that FA class and I would love to have him back in Detroit, but it just wasn't a good situation for him to be here.

Now, Shaun Rodgers, that's a different story. He was our best player hands down and I miss him a **** load... but he DIDN'T want to be here. He caused trouble in the locker room and was insubordinate in almost every way possible.

Yeah, I want Shaun and Leigh back, but Leigh wasn't good for Detroit and Shaun was causing trouble and begged to be traded. We just have to replace what they brought to the table. We can replace Shaun by trying to sign Hampton or Wilfork and / or drafting Terrence Cody. Leigh can and will be replaced this offseason. I can bet on it. I mean, a good CB HAS to be signed or drafted, right?

[Liqourish]

There's no use arguing with them. They are ignorant and most of the time just saying something to say it.

There's a reason they stick to the Tigers and Lions forums... because the fans on the Pistons forum would eat them alive with their "logic" and "knowledge". So they come here where there are only a few of us and try to force their stupidity on the rest of us.

[Bartender]

We should bring the Pistons forum over here then. Maybe they'll move to a new site.

[TSE]

TSE your 100 % right in your assesment of the Lions.

Here,s a perfect example how Detroit screws up they release a good CB go like Leigh Bodden and pick up worse ones off the wavier wire to replace him ? go Figure.

He has 5 ints for new england and 56 tackles, the lions let him go they do not know talent in cornerbacks

The lions traded the best player they had at the time for him in rodgers,now they have nothing in return instead of letting him go for nothing the lions should have traded him to get something back or should have keeped him.

Detroit changed many players and ended up being a wash,they gave away good and bad talent and got back good and bad talent.

Pretty sensible post, can't disagree with anything there. It's exactly what I've been saying all along is that we in effect just hit the pause button for a whole year and nothing much has changed about our general losing condition and general crappy team structure. That's why I'm giving Mayhew such a hard time, cause I'm pretty sure he's going to do exactly the same thing, but in his mind he will somehow see that as a change for the better. That's what I'm worried about.

[TSE]

Trading is your answer to everything but this isn't the NBA or MLB. Trading doesn't happen that much. A lot of teams HATE the idea of trading. Some just DONT do it. There are probable a max of 10 trades a year, and most of those are low profile trades. If you were GM, you'd spend ALL your time trying to trade players and finding a trade partner instead of putting your head where it needs to be... which is finding ways to make THIS team work. Do you HONESTLY think that there are teams out there that will trade for Matt Stafford? The only teams that need Stafford are STL, Washington, and Jacksonville... but WHO is going to match Stafford's (One of the highest in the league) salary? NOBODY!!! If Mayhew followed your 'logic' and spent all his time trying to trade 40-45 guys on this team, I would peel the brains out of my head!


And another thing, if the DETROIT LIONS don't want these players, what makes you think other teams would be willing to trade for them?

I'm telling you this man-to-man. This is how the NFL works. Teams don't go around looking for trades unless it's for high profile players. One example is Willis McGahee. He's only six years into the league and he is still DAMN good. His salary is 3.6 million per year. With a non cap year coming, Baltimore is more then likely going to release him since he's a backup with a big salary and it won't hurt them any. Now, there are going to be 25 teams interested in McGahee, so why do you think that Baltimore won't just trade him? It's cuz teams won't trade for him. They'll wait 'til he's released and then throw contracts at him. That's just the way it is in the NFL, dude. If a team wants to trade a player, 9 times out of 10 they'll release him. That one time is for players like Anquan Boldin, Brandon Marshall, Randy Moss, Clinton Portis, etc. The 40-45 players that you want to trade are not those players so they WONT and CANT be traded.

Basically, if you were GM, you'd try to change the way things work in the NFL.

You are really badly confused. First of all, yeah teams don't trade a lot. So what if we want to do some 2 player or 3 player trades? Well if we sold players for picks let's say, we could give packages of 3 guys that we don't use for single picks. So to get rid of say 30 players, we only need 10 teams to do 1 trade each. For EACH of those teams, doing one deal where they can find 3 depth guys for a pick might be a major steal from THEIR perspective and it's ONLY 1 trade. It's a LOT of trades for us, but that's only because we are in a bizarre situation of complete disarray. It's a phenomenal situation that shouldn't ever exist in the first place. We are living in something that resembles a science fiction novel.

And the players I don't want aren't because they aren't capable players, just that they aren't the right TYPES i'm looing for. Look at our top 53 guys, how many of them do you think couldn't hold a roster spot on another team? If you take our 50th guy even, well odds are there are some teams that have a positional shortage that he might make their 53rd guy better. Maybe our 33rd best player can be somebody's improved 43rd player. Or maybe there are favorable comparisons too. Only a tiny amount of guys couldn't be used on some roster somewhere, it's just that they make less sense being on our roster as opposed to a different team with a different structure, which is just about every team in the league.

And that's why you are confused. Other teams would have to be moronic to not want to improve their 40th man with our 30th best man, that's a great way for teams to get better. And if I'm the GM, they see a greenhorn GM that they think they might be able to take advantage of. Before I could turn on my computer I'd probably have 31 emails from 31 GMs that are chomping at the bit to find out what my garage sale prices are, in hopes they can find some discrepancies.

[Bartender]

That's where you're wrong. GM's won't be aiming for our 30th best guy, cuz our 30th best guy could be matched with a 5th or 6th round draft pick. What you expect to grab from other teams? A whole bunch of 5-7th round draft picks? What's the freaking point in that?

Let's give an example for how much draft picks are important to GM's. The BEST offer Oakland got for Randy Moss was a 4th round draft pick. THATS IT!! A 4th freaking round draft pick for one of the best WR's in NFL history that is still in his prime. Roy Williams is an exception cuz Jerry Jones is an idiot and thought Roy could be the next Terrell Owens.