OT: Miami Situation

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Just a couple of things...

Wade has never demanded help "right now". He's always made it clear he knows what Riley's plan is, and that he will stay if they get help, but he's never demanded the team make a trade or anything. If he did, I am sure Miami would have used Beasley to get a Boozer or Amare at the deadline.

Also, the 2010 plan can't be deemed a failure right now, because this was always what was expected. It is strategy, Riley trying to think 3 moves ahead of everyone else. Sacrificing the pawns in order to take the bishop.

That said, no doubt, it could all end in colossal failure. Wade to Chicago is a very real possibility, and I see the Clippers as a dark horse as well. I think everyone is overreacting and overrating the here and now though on what these players decisions will be.

The Raptors board went from planning on how to deal Bosh by the deadline in November, to getting ready for him to retire in Toronto now. But at the end of the day, whatever happens this season will have relatively little impact on any of these players' decisions on their future.

[s_other]

Also, the 2010 plan can't be deemed a failure right now, because this was always what was expected. It is strategy, Riley trying to think 3 moves ahead of everyone else. Sacrificing the pawns in order to take the bishop.

I loved that part. Teams were anticipating this 2010 off season when those three signed their extensions three years ago. It's not like Riley was the lone shrewd basketball mind who thought, "Ah ha, I'll clear cap space in order to sign a star." He was the only one stupid enough to waste two years of his rapidly-aging superstar in order to achieve this dream. The only other team to mortgage their future on this insane risk are the Knicks, who really didn't have much of a future anyway.

[Rembokz]

if i were Wade, would the signing of Boozer be enough to make me stay?

Boozer will go to the Knicks, whose master plan will fail them so badly that they have no choice but to overpay for broken-down Boozer

If they Don't resign David Lee I'll just laugh my hardy har har at them

[miamiballer]

well see this summer

bosh may stay in tor or he may leave, just like wade....both guys are on mediocre teams as the # 1 option except that miami has a chance to add another max FA

in the end, i would be shocked if mia didnt come out of 2010 w/ wade, beasley and one of amare, bosh or boozer

[ChetM]

Just a couple of things...

Wade has never demanded help "right now". He's always made it clear he knows what Riley's plan is, and that he will stay if they get help, but he's never demanded the team make a trade or anything. If he did, I am sure Miami would have used Beasley to get a Boozer or Amare at the deadline.

Also, the 2010 plan can't be deemed a failure right now, because this was always what was expected. It is strategy, Riley trying to think 3 moves ahead of everyone else. Sacrificing the pawns in order to take the bishop.

That said, no doubt, it could all end in colossal failure. Wade to Chicago is a very real possibility, and I see the Clippers as a dark horse as well. I think everyone is overreacting and overrating the here and now though on what these players decisions will be.

The Raptors board went from planning on how to deal Bosh by the deadline in November, to getting ready for him to retire in Toronto now. But at the end of the day, whatever happens this season will have relatively little impact on any of these players' decisions on their future.

I completely disagree with you, I think that this season has a lot of impact on the decisions that all of these players make in the summer and what their plans are for the future...surely none of these players want to be stuck on a team going no where. This season is definitely a key thought in all these players heads. Had the raptors being playing terribly Chris Bosh would Definitely consider staying other 6 years here and the same goes for Dwade and Lebron. To say that this season has little impact on these players decisions is ridiculous

[Young_Buc]

Miami should have just used the damn JO contract for something.

You're telling me they couldn't get houston's deal and pick up Martin and possible 2 possible top 5 picks? If I'm Miami I do that, sell Wade to the highest bidder and do a super rebuild...


C- FA
PF-Beasley
SF-FA
PG-2010 Heat Pick
SG- Martin

Young team with (presumably) talent gushing from everywhere. They trade Wade and they have...2 boderline stars... minimum of 3 lottery picks, the return for Wade (which would be huge) and a ridiculous amount of cap space. The team would be a lot better than Wade+Whoever.

Say for instance they traded Wade to Chicago for Noah, Deng and 2 1st round picks. They'd look like

Noah
Beasley
Deng
2010 Draft
Martin

And STILL have New Yorks picks for the next 2 years.

[miamiballer]

^ lol

wade is going nowhere, just like that team you created

[Hendrix]

It's true. Wade will probably be gone. New York is clearly making a push for one of the superstars with the Darko for Cardinal swap so i think now with Jamison in Cleveland, Bron will ost likely stay and Wade will go to NY. The pairing on Bosh and Wade is the most logical if 2 superstars are to play together in 2010 so maybe Miami is set ongettng Bosh? Any chance of Wade
coming to TO?

Darko for Cardinal move has no impact on the 2010 FA's since Darko was already an expiring.

Wade has already said he wont go to NYC, and laughed at the idea of taking less money. So if he were to get the max he'de need to be s+t'd to NYC. Assuming Wade would cot ~ Lee + Gallanari (or w/e) why would Wade ever in a million years want to go to play with a whole pile of scrubs when he's 29y/o?

I honestly have no idea how players truely feel about NBA cities like Toronto, and how much it would effect their decisions. But if you take the city out of the equation I think Toronto has about the best possible situation in the NBA for a big time S+T (assuming that any max FA will be S+T'd). We have a pile of young assets that could be given up while still keeping a damn good team together. A lot of other teams in the NBA will be absolutly gutted if they give up what they'd need to for Wade.

[Madmax 134]

Just a couple of things...

Wade has never demanded help "right now". He's always made it clear he knows what Riley's plan is, and that he will stay if they get help, but he's never demanded the team make a trade or anything. If he did, I am sure Miami would have used Beasley to get a Boozer or Amare at the deadline.

Also, the 2010 plan can't be deemed a failure right now, because this was always what was expected. It is strategy, Riley trying to think 3 moves ahead of everyone else. Sacrificing the pawns in order to take the bishop.

That said, no doubt, it could all end in colossal failure. Wade to Chicago is a very real possibility, and I see the Clippers as a dark horse as well. I think everyone is overreacting and overrating the here and now though on what these players decisions will be.

The Raptors board went from planning on how to deal Bosh by the deadline in November, to getting ready for him to retire in Toronto now. But at the end of the day, whatever happens this season will have relatively little impact on any of these players' decisions on their future.

You can't honestly believe that. So when they go into free agency they aren't going to reflect on the season that was? They aren't even make evaluations on the current personnel and whether that is a suitable situation for them?

[Young_Buc]

It's true. Wade will probably be gone. New York is clearly making a push for one of the superstars with the Darko for Cardinal swap so i think now with Jamison in Cleveland, Bron will ost likely stay and Wade will go to NY. The pairing on Bosh and Wade is the most logical if 2 superstars are to play together in 2010 so maybe Miami is set ongettng Bosh? Any chance of Wade
coming to TO?

Darko for Cardinal move has no impact on the 2010 FA's since Darko was already an expiring.

Wade has already said he wont go to NYC, and laughed at the idea of taking less money. So if he were to get the max he'de need to be s+t'd to NYC. Assuming Wade would cot ~ Lee + Gallanari (or w/e) why would Wade ever in a million years want to go to play with a whole pile of scrubs when he's 29y/o?

I honestly have no idea how players truely feel about NBA cities like Toronto, and how much it would effect their decisions. But if you take the city out of the equation I think Toronto has about the best possible situation in the NBA for a big time S+T (assuming that any max FA will be S+T'd). We have a pile of young assets that could be given up while still keeping a damn good team together. A lot of other teams in the NBA will be absolutly gutted if they give up what they'd need to for Wade.

A package of DeRozan, Bargnani, Calderon and a first isn't bad for Wade at all. I'd accept that for Bosh (assuming he wasn't on our team) and from an asset standpoint (age, injury history, peak) I would say that Chris Bosh... has more value than dwyane wade.

[Madmax 134]

well see this summer

bosh may stay in tor or he may leave, just like wade....both guys are on mediocre teams as the # 1 option except that miami has a chance to add another max FA

in the end, i would be shocked if mia didnt come out of 2010 w/ wade, beasley and one of amare, bosh or boozer

Me too but are two max contracts the way to go nowadays? it will seriously deplete the rest of your team no?

[tdot1986]

Miami should have just used the damn JO contract for something.

You're telling me they couldn't get houston's deal and pick up Martin and possible 2 possible top 5 picks? If I'm Miami I do that, sell Wade to the highest bidder and do a super rebuild...


C- FA
PF-Beasley
SF-FA
PG-2010 Heat Pick
SG- Martin

Young team with (presumably) talent gushing from everywhere. They trade Wade and they have...2 boderline stars... minimum of 3 lottery picks, the return for Wade (which would be huge) and a ridiculous amount of cap space. The team would be a lot better than Wade+Whoever.

Say for instance they traded Wade to Chicago for Noah, Deng and 2 1st round picks. They'd look like

Noah
Beasley
Deng
2010 Draft
Martin

And STILL have New Yorks picks for the next 2 years.

that is just terrible....

[jay632]

always ballboy, sophmore making these topics, money is key. he even said he needs to feed his kids...

[inonba]

Just a couple of things...

Wade has never demanded help "right now". He's always made it clear he knows what Riley's plan is, and that he will stay if they get help, but he's never demanded the team make a trade or anything. If he did, I am sure Miami would have used Beasley to get a Boozer or Amare at the deadline.

Also, the 2010 plan can't be deemed a failure right now, because this was always what was expected. It is strategy, Riley trying to think 3 moves ahead of everyone else. Sacrificing the pawns in order to take the bishop.

That said, no doubt, it could all end in colossal failure. Wade to Chicago is a very real possibility, and I see the Clippers as a dark horse as well. I think everyone is overreacting and overrating the here and now though on what these players decisions will be.

The Raptors board went from planning on how to deal Bosh by the deadline in November, to getting ready for him to retire in Toronto now. But at the end of the day, whatever happens this season will have relatively little impact on any of these players' decisions on their future.

Miami did try to use Beasley to get Boozer/Amare. The other teams' didn't bite. Let's be realistic for a second. Miami minus Wade has basically the same talent level of an expansion team. Riley thinking 3 moves ahead of everyone else? I hope you're kidding. In terms of market size, NY, LA, Chicago are all bigger. In terms of talent, every team in the league has more. But yes, Miami has the weather.....

I really like how Miami fans like to come on this board to tell us, yes we suck, but we're still better than you because we have room to improve, and that's all part of the master plan.....

[ChetM]

always ballboy, sophmore making these topics, money is key. he even said he needs to feed his kids...

Ok yeah sure it is all about the money and Wade isn't getting any younger... but people are always saying that lebron could make the money up by endorsements and playing in a bigger market who says that Wade can't do the same.

[Hendrix]

[A package of DeRozan, Bargnani, Calderon and a first isn't bad for Wade at all. I'd accept that for Bosh (assuming he wasn't on our team) and from an asset standpoint (age, injury history, peak) I would say that Chris Bosh... has more value than dwyane wade.

Pretty much.

If Bosh were to want to leave, then the Heat are rebuilding. We have young players like Derozan, Bargs, a 1st, Marco, Amir that can be put in. Plus Turk, Calderon, Jack. And then Expiring like Evans, Banks (maybe these peices would be assets in a 3 way deal). I'm sure you can put together some kind of package out of that group that would be competitive with other teams, should wade want out.


On the flip side.. Say we gave up DeRozan, a 1st, Bargs, and Marco. He'de probably be pretty happy to play on a team like....

Jack/Caleron
Wade/Weems
Turk/Wright
Bosh/Amir
MLE/Amir

Maybe you move some pieces for better fits. But the assets are there imo to give a S+T, while still retaining a contending amount of assets.

[power works]

bosh may stay in tor or he may leave, just like wade....both guys are on mediocre teams as the # 1 option except that miami has a chance to add another max FA

Sometimes perception counts big time.

There's a big difference between their current situations and how they arrived at that situation.

Bosh and the Raptors were a lottery team last year and management did everything it can to surround him with players. Now they find themselves solidly ensconced into the 5th slot.

A GIGANTIC IMPROVEMENT.

If you've watched or read what Bosh has been saying the last month it's safe to say he is very happy with the direction of the franchise. He's given every indication that he isn't going nowhere. That's precisely the type of attitude you'd like your free-agent-to-be superstar to have.

The Heat meanwhile have regressed from last season and are fighting just to remain in the playoffs. Management badly maneuvered themselves into lux tax territory and the result is no additional help for Wade....even if that's what he's been asking for since last summer.

The worst part is that Riley used Wade not signing an extension for not making improvements.

It's only within the last few weeks that Heat management realized how dead serious Wade is when he says he plans to leave if ther'e'sno significant help soon. Witness Riley scrambling desperately to trade for Amare or Boozer.

Even a non-biased outside observer would say at this point that out of the big 3, Wade looks like he's the one likely to leave. Especially now that the Bulls have cleared even more cap space. I'd be worried.

[BlackIce]

if i were Wade, would the signing of Boozer be enough to make me stay?

Boozer will go to the Knicks, whose master plan will fail them so badly that they have no choice but to overpay for broken-down Boozer

How do you know? I hope that is true but that sort of definitive statement is like other fans saying Bosh is leaving, fo sho.

[J-Roc]

Wade will stay for his max money. And Miami will get some second tier FA just for the weather. And that in itself could make Miami contenders. The current team sucks so bad and they're comparable to the Raps.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Riley never offered Beasley for Amare or Boozer, that has been widely reported, its why neither deal was ever close to being completed.

Far as my other statement about this season not mattering, I'll correct myself... it doesn't matter as much for teams with 2010 capspace, as they have the ability to start over (Knicks, Bulls, Heat etc). Its more important for teams like Toronto because most of the team is already locked into place.

Also, for those stating Riley wasted 3 years of Wade's prime, that's not really true. The 2010 plan was actually first started when we signed Shaq (who himself is a huge 2010 expiring). However, nobody foresaw Wade having a freak shoulder dislocation that eventually wasted 1.5 years of his prime. It is Wade's own fault we couldn't compete in 06-07 and 07-08... and that created a domino effect with Shaq becoming a locker room cancer and wanting out, forcing Miami to make moves to appease him and begin a rebuilding process.

We've had 2 years since that point with Shaq gone, and if anyone honestly believes Miami had the pieces to build a championship squad last season or this season, you're more of a Heat homer than any Heat fan on this site. So in reality, the best option probably was to leave things open for 2010. That, or have the foresight that Shaq would decline as rapidly as he did and trade him for value immediately after the 2006 season, but like they say, hindsight is 20/20.

In a perfect world (for Miami), Wade never dislocates his shoulder, he and Shaq compete at least through 08-09 (if Wade doesn't go down, Shaq likely doesn't mail it in like he did) and they get ready to rebuild in 2010.

I won't claim that Miami is in a great situation, and it sucks that they have basically forced their fans to accept they won't try to compete for a couple of seasons, but Riley is going for it all. He did the same thing with the Shaq trade a few years back, and if you ask any Heat fan, they will take that ring as opposed to keeping our youth like Butler and Odom 10 times out of 10.