Wiz trade 5th pick to Minnesota

[closg00]

The Wizards are unlikely to retain guard Randy Foye this summer at the price of his qualifying offer, a league source told the Washington Post.

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... ain_foye/##ixzz0kJtrCPyH

Perhaps Foye comes back on a cheapie contract, but it's beginning to look like at the end of the day this trade will have been all about cap-relief and a one-shot run at the playoffs.

[nate33]

The Wizards are unlikely to retain guard Randy Foye this summer at the price of his qualifying offer, a league source told the Washington Post.

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... ain_foye/##ixzz0kJtrCPyH

Perhaps Foye comes back on a cheapie contract, but it's beginning to look like at the end of the day this trade will have been all about cap-relief and a one-shot run at the playoffs.

Looking on the bright side, at least EG isn't going to make the bad move in retaining him just in an attempt to "save face" on his original trade.

[verbal8]

The Wizards are unlikely to retain guard Randy Foye this summer at the price of his qualifying offer, a league source told the Washington Post.

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... ain_foye/##ixzz0kJtrCPyH

Perhaps Foye comes back on a cheapie contract, but it's beginning to look like at the end of the day this trade will have been all about cap-relief and a one-shot run at the playoffs.

The 2010 salaries were basically equal.
Etan(7.3) Songalia(4.5) and OPech(1.2) = 13.3
Foye(3.5) Miller(9.7) = 13.2

However the Twolves traded Songalia for expiring garbage(antonio daniels), so a similar deal should have been available to the Wizards.

[nate33]

The Wizards are unlikely to retain guard Randy Foye this summer at the price of his qualifying offer, a league source told the Washington Post.

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... ain_foye/##ixzz0kJtrCPyH

Perhaps Foye comes back on a cheapie contract, but it's beginning to look like at the end of the day this trade will have been all about cap-relief and a one-shot run at the playoffs.

The 2010 salaries were basically equal.
Etan(7.3) Songalia(4.5) and OPech(1.2) = 13.3
Foye(3.5) Miller(9.7) = 13.2

However the Twolves traded Songalia for expiring garbage(antonio daniels), so a similar deal should have been available to the Wizards.

We also saved $3.3M by not having to sign the #5 pick. When you factor the luxtax, that's $6.6M in savings. Of course, some would not want to characterize giving away a draft pick as "savings".

[Dat2U]

Looking on the bright side, at least EG isn't going to make the bad move in retaining him just in an attempt to "save face" on his original trade.

Amen to that! It's time to move on. It was a disasterous trade there's no upside in keeping a position-less tweener like Foye. . Now if we can only hear rumors that Mike Miller DOESN'T want to come back.

[verbal8]

Amen to that! It's time to move on. It was a disasterous trade there's no upside in keeping a position-less tweener like Foye. . Now if we can only hear rumors that Mike Miller DOESN'T want to come back.

Another reason to hope the Wizards lose out the season in addition to ping-pong balls. Miller has been more productive recently and a little late season momentum may trick him into staying with the Wizards. I like Miller's game a lot, but I think he does not match well age-wise with the Wizards rebuilding.

[closg00]

Amen to that! It's time to move on. It was a disasterous trade there's no upside in keeping a position-less tweener like Foye. . Now if we can only hear rumors that Mike Miller DOESN'T want to come back.

Another reason to hope the Wizards lose out the season in addition to ping-pong balls. Miller has been more productive recently and a little late season momentum may trick him into staying with the Wizards. I like Miller's game a lot, but I think he does not match well age-wise with the Wizards rebuilding.

+1 Miller is aight, I just fear that FLip will use him too-much next year and keep new rooks on the bench.

[MF23]

Foye is a good player and will continue to get better in the future. In saying that I have to admit that Livingston has been impressive enough to make Foye expendable. If it’s based on a financial or cap related issue then I can support choosing Livingston over him.

[verbal8]

Foye is a good player and will continue to get better in the future.

Foye is a good shooter, but the rest of his game is average or below.
He is 26 and has been in the league for 4 season. His numbers this season were very similar to his rookie year, his AST/TO ratio is the only significant improvement. I don't see much upside. He basically came into the league an undersized average SG and is now a decent combo guard.

[MF23]

Well before this year he did improve in successive seasons. The change this year did influence him to play differently. Foye is a good team player but I think he hurts himself by not creating more often. Anyway, I think he can do more than just shoot but he’s hurt himself this year by being passive.

[Dat2U]

Well before this year he did improve in successive seasons. The change this year did influence him to play differently. Foye is a good team player but I think he hurts himself by not creating more often. Anyway, I think he can do more than just shoot but he’s hurt himself this year by being passive.

Code: Select all

Season    Age Tm  G   PER  TS% eFG%  FG%  3P%  FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF  PTS
2006-07    23 MIN 82 14.0 .536 .483 .434 .368 .854 4.2 4.4 1.0 0.4 2.9 3.5 15.9
2007-08    24 MIN 39 12.7 .520 .495 .429 .412 .815 3.7 4.7 1.0 0.1 2.3 2.9 14.6
2008-09    25 MIN 70 13.7 .517 .463 .407 .360 .846 3.1 4.4 1.0 0.4 2.2 2.9 16.4
2009-10    26 WAS 70 13.3 .516 .464 .414 .346 .890 2.8 4.9 0.7 0.2 2.0 2.7 15.2
Career           261 13.5 .522 .474 .419 .368 .855 3.4 4.6 1.0 0.3 2.3 3.0 15.7

Exactly when did he ever improve? He's been basically the exact same player since the day he was drafted. He's never had a PER over 14.0 (league avg is 15.0). He hasn't developed into a credible PG or defender. There's absolutely no indication that he'll ever improve. Plus he'll be 27 in Sept. At what point do you call a spade a spade?

[nate33]

^
You can say one thing: Foye is remarkably consistent. The total lack of deviation in his yearly averages is truly amazing. Here are the numbers pace-adjusted per-36:

Code: Select all

foye,rand  PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
2009-10   16.9  3.1  5.5  0.8  0.2  2.3 .464 .516 13.3
2008-09   18.3  3.4  4.9  1.2  0.4  2.4 .463 .517 13.7
2007-08   16.2  4.1  5.2  1.1  0.1  2.5 .495 .520 12.7
2006-07   17.7  4.6  4.9  1.1  0.4  3.2 .483 .536 13.9

[Joe_Wiz]

1. I have absolutely no problem letting Foye go at this point.

2. In fairness to EG, the trade was not necessarily unwise, given the information available to him at the time. In hindsight, it was a bust, but so are some early draft picks.

3. I like the way Miller & Blatche play together. I would like to see an offense built around Arenas & those two -- a much better passing trio than the old "Big 3". And Miller at 30 still has some good years left. All that being said, I have to admit that it's a dubious proposition to bring him back at this stage in rebuilding. I'd be willing to consider keeping him, depending on who we end up drafting and what Miller costs (and for how long). In the end, we'll probably have to let him go, but I'm not ready to accept that conclusion just yet.

[verbal8]

1. I have absolutely no problem letting Foye go at this point.
2. In fairness to EG, the trade was not necessarily unwise, given the information available to him at the time. In hindsight, it was a bust, but so are some early draft picks.

If Rubio turns out to be a bust the deal won't look so horrible. I think there was reason to expect a change in situation may increase Foye's production.

3. I like the way Miller & Blatche play together. I would like to see an offense built around Arenas & those two -- a much better passing trio than the old "Big 3". And Miller at 30 still has some good years left. All that being said, I have to admit that it's a dubious proposition to bring him back at this stage in rebuilding. I'd be willing to consider keeping him, depending on who we end up drafting and what Miller costs (and for how long). In the end, we'll probably have to let him go, but I'm not ready to accept that conclusion just yet.

With Miller it depends on 3 things: who the Wizards get in the draft, who is available in Free Agency and what kind of contract Miller is looking for.

[LyricalRico]

2. In fairness to EG, the trade was not necessarily unwise, given the information available to him at the time. In hindsight, it was a bust, but so are some early draft picks.

Thanks for posting this and not being completely revisionist. In the end, this didn't work out but at the time it was a decent move IMO.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

In foresight the trade was a bust. I knew it then. Only, it's been more of a bust than I expected it to be.

So it goes. Life goes on.

Without Rubio's rights, or Curry, that is....

[Dat2U]

2. In fairness to EG, the trade was not necessarily unwise, given the information available to him at the time. In hindsight, it was a bust, but so are some early draft picks.

Huh? So its not fair to criticize trade b/c he had no idea how bad a deal it would be???

Shoot, I would love to work in situation where I had to make important decisions that effected a organization's future, but I wasn't held responsible for the failures suffered by that organization from the decisions I made. Man, that would be totally f*cking awesome!!! I'd love a job like that!

Seriously though, the information at the time would have told him everything if he had simply done the research. Miller was coming off a terrible year in Minny in which he refused to shoot and was passing up open shots so the likes of Rodney Carney & Bobby Brown could brick them (Sound familar?). Foye was a 3 year vet than hadn't improved one bit since coming into the league. That crap is not worth a 5th pick.

I think what pissed me off the most was when EG said recently that "people said this was a weak draft". He didn't say "he believed". He noted that "people said". I almost lost it when I read that. Did EG need to rely on other people to tell him it was a weak draft or did he come to that conclusion himself? It sounds to me like EG fell victim to 'group think", I think more time was probably spent on the phone begging for a deal than scouting potential prospects.

Finally, its one thing to take a risk, miss in the draft and end up with a bust. It's a whole nother level of suckiness, to be scared to draft a bust, try to play it safe and trade for two mediocre veteran free agents in a move that's even a bigger bust.

Basically, EG failed because he was afraid to take risk. That's not the type of guy you want at the head of any organization.

[LyricalRico]

Basically, EG failed because he was afraid to take risk. That's not the type of guy you want at the head of any organization.

See, I've never gotten this argument. How is trading a lottery pick for two vets who are about to be FA's not a "risk"? Especially when the entire season would hinge on a guy who'd only played 15 games the previous two seasons? This was a HUGE gamble by Grunfeld IMO with the intent to compete right now. Maybe you didn't like the move, but I can't see how you can say there was no risk involved.

[MF23]

Dat, Foye had good production when he came back from injury in Min. I’m not digging up the stats but bad team or not Foye indicated that he is capable of consistent production. You answered your own question. At 27 he has at least 5 solid years left where he’d be a role player on a good team. The Wizards would be wise to choose a cheaper Livingston over Foye but that doesn’t mean Randy won’t be a coveted piece for a contending team in FA. It wouldn’t surprise me too much if Randy is starting for the Spurs or Lakers next season.

And hopefully the FO lets both players leave this offseason. The cap space is a benefit that some of you guys need take heed of and stop complaining about EG's trade. Especially if the FO pulls in a FA or sign/trade talent because of the space.

[fishercob]

Basically, EG failed because he was afraid to take risk. That's not the type of guy you want at the head of any organization.

See, I've never gotten this argument. How is trading a lottery pick for two vets who are about to be FA's not a "risk"? Especially when the entire season would hinge on a guy who'd only played 15 games the previous two seasons? This was a HUGE gamble by Grunfeld IMO with the intent to compete right now. Maybe you didn't like the move, but I can't see how you can say there was no risk involved.

He did take a risk. But he shouldn't be rewarded for failure -- especially when a better, more critical analysis would have led him away from that trade.

And I favored the trade at the time and I supported EG for a long while. But the proof is in the pudding. The last time we sucked he built us into a 45 win team. That's his track record. Let's give someone else a chance.