Bruce Arthur: Glass half full analysis of Andrea

[dagger]

Bargs needs to be broken of the 3pt habit. He's addicted to it. Somebody told him that was his special skill and he bought it.

But the truth is he is not that good a 3pt shooter. Even among big men guys like Okur, Dirk, and Frye all shoot it better. And they rebound at higher rates.

Bargs % for 2pt range this year has bee quite good - around 50% - and this is where he needs to focus his game going forward. He needs to get to the FT line consistently because it is the only way to be an efficient scorer. And his O rebound numbers will go up just from playing in the paint more and tipping his own misses.

His threes should only come in transition or on the occasional high pick and roll (one per game).

He does not have the personality to be a franchise player like Bosh evolved into this year. Bargs is almost detached from the moment.

I don't know how often it has to be said before fans understand that Bargnani's use as a decoy behind the arc has been the only deliberate aspect of how he is used. Triano, and Mitchell before him, have encouraged the three point shot to spread the court for Bosh. If you set up an offensive system that doesn't call for this, and without Bosh it's less of a need, then he will take more two point shots and fewer threes.

[Lionel Messi]

On top of all that, he'll have to face a double team, LOL.

Except that unlike Bosh, he won't hold onto the ball for 10 seconds until he gets stripped. We may actually see something novel, like a repost. How many times do you see Chris reposted? You know why? Because once the ball goes into the post, it never leaves, double or not.

Myth.

I see Bosh kick it out PLENTY of times, it's one of the biggest reasons why Bargnani thrives.
Sometimes Bosh shows a lack of trust and tries to force it (often scoring or getting fouled), but otherwise he tries to kick it out plenty of times.

Jesus man, how could you have become such a blind homer/hater like this?

[Ripp]

He needs to get to the FT line consistently because it is the only way to be an efficient scorer.

Exactly, you've hit the nail on the head. Elite scorers get to the FT line....in fact, no elite (by elite, I mean 20+ per game at 55 TS%) scorer that I know of doesn't get to the line many times a game.

I suspect for a jumpshooting big man that this is easier to do if you initiate your offense from the high-post area, as Bosh and Dirk do.

[dagger]

On top of all that, he'll have to face a double team, LOL.

Except that unlike Bosh, he won't hold onto the ball for 10 seconds until he gets stripped. We may actually see something novel, like a repost. How many times do you see Chris reposted? You know why? Because once the ball goes into the post, it never leaves, double or not.

Myth.

I see Bosh kick it out PLENTY of times, it's one of the biggest reasons why Bargnani thrives.
Sometimes Bosh shows a lack of trust and tries to force it (often scoring or getting fouled), but otherwise he tries to kick it out plenty of times.

Jesus man, how could you have become such a blind homer/hater like this?

Myth - Bosh still holds onto the ball too often and too long. Just because he passes it one in four or five times doesn't mean it's often or enough to deal properly with double teams or promote good ball movement.

[Lionel Messi]

Bargs needs to be broken of the 3pt habit. He's addicted to it. Somebody told him that was his special skill and he bought it.

But the truth is he is not that good a 3pt shooter. Even among big men guys like Okur, Dirk, and Frye all shoot it better. And they rebound at higher rates.

Bargs % for 2pt range this year has bee quite good - around 50% - and this is where he needs to focus his game going forward. He needs to get to the FT line consistently because it is the only way to be an efficient scorer. And his O rebound numbers will go up just from playing in the paint more and tipping his own misses.

His threes should only come in transition or on the occasional high pick and roll (one per game).

He does not have the personality to be a franchise player like Bosh evolved into this year. Bargs is almost detached from the moment.

I don't know how often it has to be said before fans understand that Bargnani's use as a decoy behind the arc has been the only deliberate aspect of how he is used. Triano, and Mitchell before him, have encouraged the three point shot to spread the court for Bosh. If you set up an offensive system that doesn't call for this, and without Bosh it's less of a need, then he will take more two point shots and fewer threes.

You're right, it's all Bosh's fault.

Btw, Bargnani uses the 3pt threat to get his 2 point shots a lot. He uses a pump-fake at the three very often to set up his pull-up jumper. Sometimes he'll just be open at the 3 point line though, and he'll have to take it.

[jrsmith]

On top of all that, he'll have to face a double team, LOL.

Im not so sure about that, all this talk (coming from him and the coach) about him getting doubled recently is pretty much almost all false. His game is not one where you need to double team, at all. He is also not consistent or good enough to be doubled, and unless he takes some pretty big strides next season, its nothing to worry about.

[gangstaff]

Jesus man, how could you have become such a blind homer/hater like this?

Feels like an RJC type breakdown coming on. Dagger you're a valuable contributor here, you need to come back to reality.

[dagger]

On top of all that, he'll have to face a double team, LOL.

Im not so sure about that, all this talk (coming from him and the coach) about him getting doubled recently is pretty much almost all false. His game is not one where you need to double team, at all. He is also not consistent or good enough to be doubled, and unless he takes some pretty big strides next season, its nothing to worry about.

If he posts up smaller guys, you absolutely have to consider doubling him. If he's posting up the best big men, that's another story.

[Lionel Messi]

Except that unlike Bosh, he won't hold onto the ball for 10 seconds until he gets stripped. We may actually see something novel, like a repost. How many times do you see Chris reposted? You know why? Because once the ball goes into the post, it never leaves, double or not.

Myth.

I see Bosh kick it out PLENTY of times, it's one of the biggest reasons why Bargnani thrives.
Sometimes Bosh shows a lack of trust and tries to force it (often scoring or getting fouled), but otherwise he tries to kick it out plenty of times.

Jesus man, how could you have become such a blind homer/hater like this?

Myth - Bosh still holds onto the ball too often and too long. Just because he passes it one in four or five times doesn't mean it's often or enough to deal properly with double teams or promote good ball movement.

Myth - 1 in 5 my ass, 3 in 5. Most times he'll look for our cutters, who rather seem to be jogging through the lane rather than cutting hard for a hoop and then they'll end up clearing out and he'll go 1v1. He isn't leading a team lacking any real wing scoring threat to being near the top in offensive efficiency without kicking it out.
Unless you're going to attribute our relatively great offensive efficiency all to Bargnani (Bargnani helps, of course...but without Bosh he doesn't help nearly as much).

[dagger]

You're right, it's all Bosh's fault.

Don't be a moron. This isn't about how much of our problems relate to usage of Bosh, it's about Bargnani's usage and some posters have made the point that Bargnani tends to pass out of double teams faster, and that there might be a plus here.

Don't pretend that the issue of Bosh holding onto the ball as long as he does isn't a matter of debate. It's been an issue about Chris that has raged for a couple of years now through umpteen threads.

[Ripp]

I admit that Bosh sometimes holds the ball too long. But how does he have one of the best assist rates and lowest turnover rates of bigs in the league, if he is such a ballhog, as dagger is suggesting?

Is it safe to say that dagger is simply trolling, at this point? Or is a blood relative of Bryan Colangelo?

[Lionel Messi]

You're right, it's all Bosh's fault.

Don't be a moron. This isn't about how much of our problems relate to usage of Bosh, it's about Bargnani's usage and some posters have made the point that Bargnani tends to pass out of double teams faster, and that there might be a plus here.

Don't pretend that the issue of Bosh holding onto the ball as long as he does isn't a matter of debate. It's been an issue about Chris that has raged for a couple of years now through umpteen threads.

It's a small issue, and he showed huge strides in January/February and then again when he rounded back into form before the broken face.

It's nothing I would go into a senseless fit of hatred for him though. He's one of the best, most efficient scorers in this league, while maintaining a good assist/TO ratio for a big man...Not sure why it deserves umpteen threads

[Reignman]

On top of all that, he'll have to face a double team, LOL.

Except that unlike Bosh, he won't hold onto the ball for 10 seconds until he gets stripped. We may actually see something novel, like a repost. How many times do you see Chris reposted? You know why? Because once the ball goes into the post, it never leaves, double or not.

Myth.

I see Bosh kick it out PLENTY of times, it's one of the biggest reasons why Bargnani thrives.
Sometimes Bosh shows a lack of trust and tries to force it (often scoring or getting fouled), but otherwise he tries to kick it out plenty of times.

Jesus man, how could you have become such a blind homer/hater like this?

Ever seen a Lemming?

[Reignman]

On top of all that, he'll have to face a double team, LOL.

Except that unlike Bosh, he won't hold onto the ball for 10 seconds until he gets stripped. We may actually see something novel, like a repost. How many times do you see Chris reposted? You know why? Because once the ball goes into the post, it never leaves, double or not.

He has a hard enough time posting up / gathering the ball in the post against single coverage. Secondly, I've never seen Bargnani kick the ball out and ask for it back after he reposts.

[Lionel Messi]

Except that unlike Bosh, he won't hold onto the ball for 10 seconds until he gets stripped. We may actually see something novel, like a repost. How many times do you see Chris reposted? You know why? Because once the ball goes into the post, it never leaves, double or not.

Myth.

I see Bosh kick it out PLENTY of times, it's one of the biggest reasons why Bargnani thrives.
Sometimes Bosh shows a lack of trust and tries to force it (often scoring or getting fouled), but otherwise he tries to kick it out plenty of times.

Jesus man, how could you have become such a blind homer/hater like this?

Ever seen a Lemming?

That's also a myth.

[Harold_and_Kumar]

Bargnani has never been a number one option before and the reason he loves playing with Bosh and seems a better player with Bosh is because he resorts to doing what he knows best: shooting from the perimeter. It will take him some time to realize that without Bosh he needs to add the things he has learned to his game.

Adapting to a new role is not exclusive to Bargnani, for example, back when Bosh was initially getting double teamed, he had a stretch where he played badly because he had to figure out how to change his game to get the maximum out of it. I think the same thing is happening with Bargs.

I'd also like to fully agree about the concept of team hierarchy and what I believe Dagger had to say, dead on.

[garbagnani]

And people think that Bargnani won't be a number 1 option when Bosh leaves, Ok. The media is already preemptively shovelling this **** to us.

This isn't about Bargs offense, give him 20 shots and some nights he'll make them (Det) and some nights he'll bomb. The problem is that he's an absolute liability on the defensive end and rewarding someone like that by making him the #1 option seems like a recipe for failure IMO. And he himself has stated that he has laziness and focus issues and until he proves he can bring it night in and night out, there's no reason to put him in that role.

The idea is for this organization to wipe away this soft label and this kind of move would be counterintuitive.

It is Bosh that is the Liability on Defense. Bargs can cover his man, he just cant help (at all). If we pair bargs with a center that is good help defender that can rebound and blocks shots (10ppg is enough) bargs will not be a liability on defense, he will cover his man, and box out (things he does well).

[garbagnani]

Is it so difficult to understand that here we have a problem with the defensive system?!?!?

You can put Howard in this team and the defense will remain s**t!!!! You already tried it with JO.

The problem is the perimeter, not the paint; the opposite teams always can force defensive switches easily... it's difficult for our bigs to defend the paint when they have to guard PGs and SGs...

Jack
Weems
Hedo
Bargs
Dwight

That's a top 10 defensive team EASILY.

Both the perimeter and paint need better defenders but you've really undersold the role of an interior defensive presence like D12.

SO is that.

[Kevin Willis]

Play calling was different against Det. I think Jack Armstrong was saying they were doing UCLA cuts or something like that. They also had plays where Jarrett would drive and Bargs will curl to the three for an open shot. Did it twice in a row. Also Jarrett and Calderon were just feeding him off of cuts. He did an occasional post move just to keep things honest but it was movement which caused the defence to scatter and give Bargs an opening to shoot.

But Bargs is no Bosh - that should never be confused. Like someone said he would be a good piece on a well-rounded team.

[Lionel Messi]

Play calling was different against Det. I think Jack Armstrong was saying they were doing UCLA cuts or something like that. They also had plays where Jarrett would drive and Bargs will curl to the three for an open shot. Did it twice in a row. Also Jarrett and Calderon were just feeding him off of cuts. He did an occasional post move just to keep things honest but it was movement which caused the defence to scatter and give Bargs an opening to shoot.

But Bargs is no Bosh - that should never be confused. Like someone said he would be a good piece on a well-rounded team.

We've run that play lots, this is just the first time Jack named it.