SoTD: Bargnani's defensive breakdown (updated)

[Clutch Carter]

So Bosh is better then Noah and Amir is our worst big defensively? These stats are rubbish.

[McFurious1]

No, your 5 is SUPPOSED TO BE your last line of defense, is the point.

And as for moving on, ostriches still die.

Bargnani is a 4 learning to be a 5 didn't u already know this Harry? MOVE ON.

[strangespot]

OT:

@Harry Palmer

got your PM but couldn't reply to it (not allowed to send pm's). If my post you were referring did sound or came through as racist I apologise but sure wasnt my intention.

/OT

(sorry all, didnt want to open an extra topic...)

[Harry Palmer]

Bargnani is a 4 learning to be a 5 didn't u already know this Harry?

Yes, and as I stated 4+ years ago, it ain't gonna happen.

I can't speak for others, but this isn't about Bargs' responsibility as a human being for me. I can absolutely abide the argument that this is largely not his fault at all.

But none of that changes the reality of the situation. Acting like it does, or moving on, or taking personal attacks at critics, or focusing on a few plays or games and ignoring the rest or whatever...Bargs as a center still has the impact he was always going to have, given the situation. Some people just have trouble digesting that.

[Harry Palmer]

OT:

@Harry Palmer

got your PM but couldn't reply to it (not allowed to send pm's). If my post you were referring did sound or came through as racist I apologise but sure wasnt my intention.

/OT

(sorry all, didnt want to open an extra topic...)

No worries.

[Lionel Messi]

So Bosh is better then Noah and Amir is our worst big defensively? These stats are rubbish.

You need to read and analyze the OP. These stats track individual defence. Specifically man to man defence.
Noah, and ESPECIALLY Amir are mostly help-defenders. These stats don't apply to them. Amir still needs to work on his man defence and Noah is still outmuscled by most C's in the league.

[McFurious1]

Bargnani is a 4 learning to be a 5 didn't u already know this Harry?

Yes, and as I stated 4+ years ago, it ain't gonna happen.

I can't speak for others, but this isn't about Bargs' responsibility as a human being. I can absolutely abide the argument that this is largely not his fault at all.

But none of that changes the reality of the situation. Acting like it does, or moving on, or taking personal attacks at critics, or focusing on a few plays or games and ignoring the rest or whatever...Bargs as a center still has the impact he was always going to have, given the situation. Some people just have trouble digesting that.

I'm jut saying THE TORONTO RAPTORS were a HORRBILE defensive TEAM, as a whole. Everyone is accountable from the 1- the 5. Singling out Bargnani is complete non-sense, and is only done with ppl who can't get over the fact that he will mostly be around while some other players will not... MOVE ON... time to get over it.

[Clutch Carter]

So Bosh is better then Noah and Amir is our worst big defensively? These stats are rubbish.

You need to read and analyze the OP. These stats track individual defence. Specifically man to man defence.
Noah, and ESPECIALLY Amir are mostly help-defenders. These stats don't apply to them. Amir still needs to work on his man defence and Noah is still outmuscled by most C's in the league.

I've read the OP, thanks. These stats are rubbish plain and simple.

[Lionel Messi]

Bargnani is a 4 learning to be a 5 didn't u already know this Harry?

Yes, and as I stated 4+ years ago, it ain't gonna happen.

I can't speak for others, but this isn't about Bargs' responsibility as a human being. I can absolutely abide the argument that this is largely not his fault at all.

But none of that changes the reality of the situation. Acting like it does, or moving on, or taking personal attacks at critics, or focusing on a few plays or games and ignoring the rest or whatever...Bargs as a center still has the impact he was always going to have, given the situation. Some people just have trouble digesting that.

I'm jut saying THE TORONTO RAPTORS were a HORRBILE defensive TEAM, as a whole. Everyone is accountable from the 1- the 5. Singling out Bargnani is complete non-sense.

Ya, because no one calls out Jose for his defence, or Turkoglu.

We're not "singling" him out, we're just showing that he was a bigger problem than most of our other players were.

[Lionel Messi]

So Bosh is better then Noah and Amir is our worst big defensively? These stats are rubbish.

You need to read and analyze the OP. These stats track individual defence. Specifically man to man defence.
Noah, and ESPECIALLY Amir are mostly help-defenders. These stats don't apply to them. Amir still needs to work on his man defence and Noah is still outmuscled by most C's in the league.

I've read the OP, thanks. These stats are rubbish plain and simple.

I guess Harry Palmer was right, some people will just brush these completely objective stats away.

You realize that these are TRACKED POSSESSIONS. There's no question of opinion or anything. People see something, they write it down, and they publish it. There's no interpretation, or calculation, or any sort of manipulation here.

[Harry Palmer]

I'm jut saying THE TORONTO RAPTORS were a HORRBILE defensive TEAM, as a whole. Everyone is accountable from the 1- the 5. Singling out Bargnani is complete non-sense.

There are several problems with this position...particularly if you are among the fans who favor Bargs being invested with a greater-than-average role as it shapes our future.

[Jmatt12]

Bargnani is a 4 learning to be a 5 didn't u already know this Harry? MOVE ON.

I thought Bargs was a 3 learning to be a 5 ?

Bargnani is unique in that he developed largely as a small forward, and as a result, some of these rudimentary post skills are unrefined, while he has retained some remarkable abilities on the perimeter for a player his size. While most North American big men extend their game outward towards the perimeter as they develop, Bargnani is doing the opposite. As a result, certain elements of a post game are emerging before others. For example, his potential as a post defender is ahead of his development as a rebounder.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/And ... gnani-154/

[McFurious1]

Ya, because no one calls out Jose for his defence, or Turkoglu.

We're not "singling" him out, we're just showing that he was a bigger problem than most of our other players were.

He is also playing a position where defense is held more accountable than others.

[McFurious1]

Bargnani is a 4 learning to be a 5 didn't u already know this Harry? MOVE ON.

I thought Bargs was a 3 learning to be a 5 ?

Only if your Sam Mitchell

[McFurious1]

I'm jut saying THE TORONTO RAPTORS were a HORRBILE defensive TEAM, as a whole. Everyone is accountable from the 1- the 5. Singling out Bargnani is complete non-sense.

There are several problems with this position...particularly if you are among the fans who favor Bargs being invested with a greater-than-average role as it shapes our future.

When Bargnani gets to play his natural position his greater than average role will be to score, block the occasional shot and grab the occasional rebound. Something I'm confident he will do... Oh and the 5 assists at the Knicks game is just a preview to things to come.

[Clutch Carter]

You need to read and analyze the OP. These stats track individual defence. Specifically man to man defence.
Noah, and ESPECIALLY Amir are mostly help-defenders. These stats don't apply to them. Amir still needs to work on his man defence and Noah is still outmuscled by most C's in the league.

I've read the OP, thanks. These stats are rubbish plain and simple.

I guess Harry Palmer was right, some people will just brush these completely objective stats away.

You realize that these are TRACKED POSSESSIONS. There's no question of opinion or anything. People see something, they write it down, and they publish it. There's no interpretation, or calculation, or any sort of manipulation here.

Obviously I hardly expected you to have problems with these numbers. Help d or not any metric that puts Bosh as a better defender then Noah is a joke.

[Jmatt12]

Bargnani is a 4 learning to be a 5 didn't u already know this Harry? MOVE ON.

I thought Bargs was a 3 learning to be a 5 ?

Only if your Sam Mitchell

Cool. I was wondering b/c I was reading about Bargs playing history and found this

Bargnani is unique in that he developed largely as a small forward, and as a result, some of these rudimentary post skills are unrefined, while he has retained some remarkable abilities on the perimeter for a player his size. While most North American big men extend their game outward towards the perimeter as they develop, Bargnani is doing the opposite. As a result, certain elements of a post game are emerging before others. For example, his potential as a post defender is ahead of his development as a rebounder.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/And ... gnani-154/

[McFurious1]

Cool. I was wondering b/c I was reading about Bargs playing history and found this

Bargnani is unique in that he developed largely as a small forward, and as a result, some of these rudimentary post skills are unrefined, while he has retained some remarkable abilities on the perimeter for a player his size. While most North American big men extend their game outward towards the perimeter as they develop, Bargnani is doing the opposite. As a result, certain elements of a post game are emerging before others. For example, his potential as a post defender is ahead of his development as a rebounder.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/And ... gnani-154/

You should look at what it says under positions But cool story bro.

[Schad]

When Bargnani gets to play his natural position his greater than average role will be to score, block the occasional shot and grab the occasional rebound. Something I'm confident he will do... Oh and the 5 assists at the Knicks game is just a preview to things to come.

If that's his future, he shouldn't have a greater-than-average role.

And I'll bet you an excessive amount of money that Bargs' assist rate will not approach 10% next year (Bosh was at 11.5%, FWIW)...he only had more than 3 assists twice the entire season. Amir Johnson, despite playing less than half as many minutes and having a considerably lower usage rate, had just as many such "previews of things to come". He's either one of the worst or the least-willing passers in the league.

[tmoney34]

Where is that chart/table that someone posted a while back with all of the Raptors and their defensive statistics?
I think it had "contested shots" among other things