Lebron/Bulls gossip & rumors (merging)

[BR0D1E86]

I wonder how Deng feels in all this -- being that he won't get as many shots if we sign a premiere FA, especially LeBron.

I don't know. More importantly, I don't care.

Get on board the Lebronamania, Lu.

[coldfish]

The Argument Golic made after Ryan was on, was spot on. He was saying that he disagreed with Ryan that if Lebron wants to blow up his image he has to go to NY. In Fact Golic sounded annoyed and said NY isn't going to get an Endorsement deal lebron couldn't get anywhere else and i totally agree. NY makes a difference for a mid level star but when you're the best player in the NBA, you're going to be big time as long as you win and as long as you continue to play the way you're playing. I'm still skeptical and still dont buy Lebron being a bull but compared to Miami, Chicago's positives outweigh Miami's positives when it comes to sports. If he wants to play in front of packed crowds he should go to Chicago, if he wants a better team situation both now and long term he goes Chicago.

I don't agree. By the way, Golic is from Cleveland.

Regardless, I'm not from Cleveland, and a Bulls fan, and think he's wrong. LeBron is already a mega star. No doubt about it. And he always will be. But he'll be a bigger megastar in New York than he can be anywhere else. That's just a fact. New York, with the possible exception of Paris, is the most prestigious city in the world. And when it comes to athletics, its the biggest by far.

We might not like it, but New York is the gravitational center of the sports universe. It is perceived that way, and it is covered that way. The New York Knicks, as an organization, perfectly illustrates this. Despite a complete lack of relevence and success, they are one of the most globally talked about, famous franchises on the planet and have been my entire sports-watching life (which is over 20 years old). That is because of the words "New York" not the word "Knicks."

Look at Albert Pujols as another example. He is a LeBronian type of baseball player. And, though he does not play in a market the size of Chicago, he plays for the second most storied franchises in the sport, that has a HUGE national following. And he can't eve sniff Derek Jeter's fame and popularity. Can you imagine how big Pujols would be if he were a Yankee?

Yes, LeBron is soooooo big that he overcomes a lot of this regionalism. But he'd be even bigger in New York. That's just the way it is. And if he bases his decision on notoriety moreso than victory, there is absolutely no question at all he'll go to New York. And he'll be right to, if those are his primary goals.

I disagree with the Jeter / Pujols comparison. If anything, you are making a case for Lebron going to Chicago. Jeter has 5 world series titles and plays for the most prestigious team in sports. Pujols has one for a team that has a nice, but nothing special history (sorry, no one really cares about the Cardinals). Pujols also has the personality of a piece of granite while Jeter is banging models nightly.

I think the Yankees are the thing that confuses people about NY. They are hugely popular. When they go on the road, you will see massive numbers of people wearing Yankees gear and rooting for them in other people's parks. New Yorkers seem to think that has something to do with NY. It doesn't. Its because they have won a bazillion world series titles (Ok, 22) with very personable people, like Mantle, Dimaggio, Reggie Jackson, etc. You don't see people rooting for the Giants or Mets or Knicks on the road anything like this. Dallas Cowboys? Sure do, for the same reason why the Yankees are popular, not because Dallas is a major metropolitan area.

I'll put it this simply. Lebron would be much bigger winning 3+ titles in Chicago than winning 0 in NY. Much, much, much bigger. If your argument is that Lebron would be bigger winning 4 titles in NY than winning 4 titles in Cleveland, I won't disagree.

[red222]

I wonder how Deng feels in all this -- being that he won't get as many shots if we sign a premiere FA, especially LeBron.

Deng will get probably the same amount of points and IMO more effectively. LBJ and Rose are both unselfish guys and they will get Deng the ball on cuts and kicks out. Deng becomes a dangerous player on the Bulls if we get LBJ

who guards the lakers frontcourt

[Zeb]

The Argument Golic made after Ryan was on, was spot on. He was saying that he disagreed with Ryan that if Lebron wants to blow up his image he has to go to NY. In Fact Golic sounded annoyed and said NY isn't going to get an Endorsement deal lebron couldn't get anywhere else and i totally agree. NY makes a difference for a mid level star but when you're the best player in the NBA, you're going to be big time as long as you win and as long as you continue to play the way you're playing. I'm still skeptical and still dont buy Lebron being a bull but compared to Miami, Chicago's positives outweigh Miami's positives when it comes to sports. If he wants to play in front of packed crowds he should go to Chicago, if he wants a better team situation both now and long term he goes Chicago.

I don't agree. By the way, Golic is from Cleveland.

Regardless, I'm not from Cleveland, and a Bulls fan, and think he's wrong. LeBron is already a mega star. No doubt about it. And he always will be. But he'll be a bigger megastar in New York than he can be anywhere else. That's just a fact. New York, with the possible exception of Paris, is the most prestigious city in the world. And when it comes to athletics, its the biggest by far.

We might not like it, but New York is the gravitational center of the sports universe. It is perceived that way, and it is covered that way. The New York Knicks, as an organization, perfectly illustrates this. Despite a complete lack of relevence and success, they are one of the most globally talked about, famous franchises on the planet and have been my entire sports-watching life (which is over 20 years old). That is because of the words "New York" not the word "Knicks."

Look at Albert Pujols as another example. He is a LeBronian type of baseball player. And, though he does not play in a market the size of Chicago, he plays for the second most storied franchises in the sport, that has a HUGE national following. And he can't eve sniff Derek Jeter's fame and popularity. Can you imagine how big Pujols would be if he were a Yankee?

Yes, LeBron is soooooo big that he overcomes a lot of this regionalism. But he'd be even bigger in New York. That's just the way it is. And if he bases his decision on notoriety moreso than victory, there is absolutely no question at all he'll go to New York. And he'll be right to, if those are his primary goals.

I disagree with the Jeter / Pujols comparison. If anything, you are making a case for Lebron going to Chicago. Jeter has 5 world series titles and plays for the most prestigious team in sports. Pujols has one for a team that has a nice, but nothing special history (sorry, no one really cares about the Cardinals). Pujols also has the personality of a piece of granite while Jeter is banging models nightly.

I think the Yankees are the thing that confuses people about NY. They are hugely popular. When they go on the road, you will see massive numbers of people wearing Yankees gear and rooting for them in other people's parks. New Yorkers seem to think that has something to do with NY. It doesn't. Its because they have won a bazillion world series titles (Ok, 22) with very personable people, like Mantle, Dimaggio, Reggie Jackson, etc. You don't see people rooting for the Giants or Mets or Knicks on the road anything like this. Dallas Cowboys? Sure do, for the same reason why the Yankees are popular, not because Dallas is a major metropolitan area.

I'll put it this simply. Lebron would be much bigger winning 3+ titles in Chicago than winning 0 in NY. Much, much, much bigger. If your argument is that Lebron would be bigger winning 4 titles in NY than winning 4 titles in Cleveland, I won't disagree.

That makes sense to me, the Giants and Rangers don't get Yankee-like hype.

[Sever82]

I wonder how Deng feels in all this -- being that he won't get as many shots if we sign a premiere FA, especially LeBron.

I don't know. But I'd suspect he'd be fine with it. He already got the biggest contract he's ever going to get. And he's a competitor. I suspect he'd trade a few minutes and shots for titles at this point in his career.

Its not like there isn't room for both of them to start and play major minutes.

I think whats crazy and i keep saying this, Deng is only 25 yrs old but yet it feels like he's 29yrs old because of the amount of time he's been on the bulls.

[coldfish]

OK, I'm on a roll.

During the 80's and 90's cable was just rolling out. Ted Turner put his baseball team in the home of almost every household in the US (Braves on WTBS) using cable. As a result of that and a good bit of success, the Braves at one point were the second most popular team in MLB. Jerseys for guys like Maddux, Chipper jones, etc. flew off shelves. When the Braves travelled, Braves fans showed up on the road. This was for a team that, pre-1980 was literally nothing.

The Chicago Bulls have similar leverage. Through WGN superstation, 75% of the homes in the US can see a Bulls game every week without them playing on ESPN or TNT. I think people sorely underestimate the impact this had on Michael Jordan's fame. I hope that the Bulls don't miss this selling point. No other NBA team can touch this level of exposure.

[AKfanatic]

I think the Yankees are the thing that confuses people about NY. They are hugely popular. When they go on the road, you will see massive numbers of people wearing Yankees gear and rooting for them in other people's parks. New Yorkers seem to think that has something to do with NY. It doesn't. Its because they have won a bazillion world series titles (Ok, 22) with very personable people, like Mantle, Dimaggio, Reggie Jackson, etc. You don't see people rooting for the Giants or Mets or Knicks on the road anything like this. Dallas Cowboys? Sure do, for the same reason why the Yankees are popular, not because Dallas is a major metropolitan area.

exhibit A: Lebron James - fan of - Yankees - Cowboys - Bulls



Yet another good post Coldfish...you've really been on a roll lately. What's the secret? Ginseng?

[Grand Champ]

Not to sound like a Cardinals homer (W.Sox fan here) but you do realize they have the 2nd most world series titles right? 10 titles most recent in 2006, and they have 17 appearances... Yankees have 27 titles in 40 appearances (wow)

[BuffaloBull]

OK, I'm on a roll.

During the 80's and 90's cable was just rolling out. Ted Turner put his baseball team in the home of almost every household in the US (Braves on WTBS) using cable. As a result of that and a good bit of success, the Braves at one point were the second most popular team in MLB. Jerseys for guys like Maddux, Chipper jones, etc. flew off shelves. When the Braves travelled, Braves fans showed up on the road. This was for a team that, pre-1980 was literally nothing.

The Chicago Bulls have similar leverage. Through WGN superstation, 75% of the homes in the US can see a Bulls game every week without them playing on ESPN or TNT. I think people sorely underestimate the impact this had on Michael Jordan's fame. I hope that the Bulls don't miss this selling point. No other NBA team can touch this level of exposure.

And couple that to all the international exposure Michael Jordan created during the dynasty, and Chicago is a francishe with a international Q rating higher than most others. When I was living in Japan after college, teaching English, my students knew who MJ was, though most could tell you little to nothing about the game itself.

Not to say James can't forge his own network, but it's certainly easier to "reactivate the old one." If the Bulls become and elite team again, it won't only be the city of Chicago waking back up to NBA basketball.

[kyrv]

I think the Yankees are the thing that confuses people about NY. They are hugely popular. When they go on the road, you will see massive numbers of people wearing Yankees gear and rooting for them in other people's parks. New Yorkers seem to think that has something to do with NY. It doesn't. Its because they have won a bazillion world series titles (Ok, 22) with very personable people, like Mantle, Dimaggio, Reggie Jackson, etc. You don't see people rooting for the Giants or Mets or Knicks on the road anything like this. Dallas Cowboys? Sure do, for the same reason why the Yankees are popular, not because Dallas is a major metropolitan area.

exhibit A: Lebron James - fan of - Yankees - Cowboys - Bulls



Yet another good post Coldfish...you've really been on a roll lately. What's the secret? Ginseng?

PED's

Post Enhancing Drugs

[r1terrell23]

The Argument Golic made after Ryan was on, was spot on. He was saying that he disagreed with Ryan that if Lebron wants to blow up his image he has to go to NY. In Fact Golic sounded annoyed and said NY isn't going to get an Endorsement deal lebron couldn't get anywhere else and i totally agree. NY makes a difference for a mid level star but when you're the best player in the NBA, you're going to be big time as long as you win and as long as you continue to play the way you're playing. I'm still skeptical and still dont buy Lebron being a bull but compared to Miami, Chicago's positives outweigh Miami's positives when it comes to sports. If he wants to play in front of packed crowds he should go to Chicago, if he wants a better team situation both now and long term he goes Chicago.

I don't agree. By the way, Golic is from Cleveland.

Regardless, I'm not from Cleveland, and a Bulls fan, and think he's wrong. LeBron is already a mega star. No doubt about it. And he always will be. But he'll be a bigger megastar in New York than he can be anywhere else. That's just a fact. New York, with the possible exception of Paris, is the most prestigious city in the world. And when it comes to athletics, its the biggest by far.

We might not like it, but New York is the gravitational center of the sports universe. It is perceived that way, and it is covered that way. The New York Knicks, as an organization, perfectly illustrates this. Despite a complete lack of relevence and success, they are one of the most globally talked about, famous franchises on the planet and have been my entire sports-watching life (which is over 20 years old). That is because of the words "New York" not the word "Knicks."

Look at Albert Pujols as another example. He is a LeBronian type of baseball player. And, though he does not play in a market the size of Chicago, he plays for the second most storied franchises in the sport, that has a HUGE national following. And he can't eve sniff Derek Jeter's fame and popularity. Can you imagine how big Pujols would be if he were a Yankee?

Yes, LeBron is soooooo big that he overcomes a lot of this regionalism. But he'd be even bigger in New York. That's just the way it is. And if he bases his decision on notoriety moreso than victory, there is absolutely no question at all he'll go to New York. And he'll be right to, if those are his primary goals.

I disagree with everything you said. Lebron will be a mega big time star playing in NY, Chi, or LA. Jordan is the biggest sports icon of alltime and where did he play? New York can boost status but not for a Lebron type player.

[Red Larrivee]

New York is a great place to be when you're winning. At the same time, it's the worst to be when you're losing. Remember how A-Rod was mortified for his multiple postseason disappointments? Remember how he was glorified when he finally lived up and performed? Eli Manning was a goat when the Giants were underachieving. Now he's got respect.

A lot of players aren't ready for that. Remember what Ron Artest said, he believes a lot of players are scared or just flat out don't want to play there because of it.

[DuckIII]

I disagree with the Jeter / Pujols comparison. If anything, you are making a case for Lebron going to Chicago. Jeter has 5 world series titles and plays for the most prestigious team in sports. Pujols has one for a team that has a nice, but nothing special history (sorry, no one really cares about the Cardinals).

Huh? They are the second most followed, most successful, team in all of baseball. Cardinals (in baseball) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bulls (in basketball - let alone where Cleveland would rank). I think maybe baseball history just isn't your thing. Which is fine. But the Cardinals have a huge national following and have had forever. I'll spare you the history lesson on it though.

Pujols also has the personality of a piece of granite while Jeter is banging models nightly.

This is a good point re: Jeter. But it does not discount that Pujols would be an infinitely bigger star in New York.

I think the Yankees are the thing that confuses people about NY. They are hugely popular. When they go on the road, you will see massive numbers of people wearing Yankees gear and rooting for them in other people's parks. New Yorkers seem to think that has something to do with NY. It doesn't. Its because they have won a bazillion world series titles (Ok, 22) with very personable people, like Mantle, Dimaggio, Reggie Jackson, etc. You don't see people rooting for the Giants or Mets or Knicks on the road anything like this. Dallas Cowboys? Sure do, for the same reason why the Yankees are popular, not because Dallas is a major metropolitan area.

This is also a good point. Except that the Knicks do have a national and international following. David Stern himself has called it the "flagship" franchise of the NBA despite its lack of historic success.

I'll put it this simply. Lebron would be much bigger winning 3+ titles in Chicago than winning 0 in NY. Much, much, much bigger. If your argument is that Lebron would be bigger winning 4 titles in NY than winning 4 titles in Cleveland, I won't disagree.

My argument is, and has been, that winning 1 title in New York = 3 in Chicago if we are talking about fame. And he's going to win a title someday no matter where he goes. Guys that good never get completely shut out.

[DuckIII]

That makes sense to me, the Giants and Rangers don't get Yankee-like hype.

But the Knicks do. Not "Yankee like" hype, but huge hype. Even though they suck. Imagine what it will be like with LeBron James.

[TheAdmiral]

I think the Yankees are the thing that confuses people about NY. They are hugely popular. When they go on the road, you will see massive numbers of people wearing Yankees gear and rooting for them in other people's parks. New Yorkers seem to think that has something to do with NY. It doesn't. Its because they have won a bazillion world series titles (Ok, 22) with very personable people, like Mantle, Dimaggio, Reggie Jackson, etc. You don't see people rooting for the Giants or Mets or Knicks on the road anything like this. Dallas Cowboys? Sure do, for the same reason why the Yankees are popular, not because Dallas is a major metropolitan area.

exhibit A: Lebron James - fan of - Yankees - Cowboys - Bulls



Yet another good post Coldfish...you've really been on a roll lately. What's the secret? Ginseng?

Coldfish rubbed a certain unicorn.

[DuckIII]

I disagree with everything you said. Lebron will be a mega big time star playing in NY, Chi, or LA.

I never said he wouldn't be. Read it again. He's already the biggest star in the sport in Cleveland for crying out loud.

Jordan is the biggest sports icon of alltime and where did he play?

And he would have been even bigger had he played for the Knicks.

New York can boost status but not for a Lebron type player.

Every player. Every single one. Again, I'm not saying LeBron won't be a mega-star no matter what. He could sign in Sacto and still be a mega-star. I'm saying if his primary motivation is to MAXIMIZE his fame, the place to do that is New York.

[kyrv]

Duck I think New York and even Boston for ESPN can get more exposure. I think Lebron would do just about as well fame wise in Chicago. In fact we have historical proof this can happen.

I don't agree with Stern that the Knicks are the flagship franchise. I don't recall where and when he said this, but...no. I also don't believe the Knicks are the most popular team nationally or internationally (note that you aren't saying that I don't think, but I think it's an important point).

Re winning three titles: that will trump one title always in my opinion. Always.

[KingoftheCastle]

And he would have been even bigger had he played for the Knicks.

.

Pure conjecture

[Sever82]

I disagree with the Jeter / Pujols comparison. If anything, you are making a case for Lebron going to Chicago. Jeter has 5 world series titles and plays for the most prestigious team in sports. Pujols has one for a team that has a nice, but nothing special history (sorry, no one really cares about the Cardinals). Pujols also has the personality of a piece of granite while Jeter is banging models nightly.

I think the Yankees are the thing that confuses people about NY. They are hugely popular. When they go on the road, you will see massive numbers of people wearing Yankees gear and rooting for them in other people's parks. New Yorkers seem to think that has something to do with NY. It doesn't. Its because they have won a bazillion world series titles (Ok, 22) with very personable people, like Mantle, Dimaggio, Reggie Jackson, etc. You don't see people rooting for the Giants or Mets or Knicks on the road anything like this. Dallas Cowboys? Sure do, for the same reason why the Yankees are popular, not because Dallas is a major metropolitan area.

I'll put it this simply. Lebron would be much bigger winning 3+ titles in Chicago than winning 0 in NY. Much, much, much bigger. If your argument is that Lebron would be bigger winning 4 titles in NY than winning 4 titles in Cleveland, I won't disagree.

Very Very Very Good Point +1

Not to mention, Patrick Ewing was one of the biggest knick stars in recent years, how did his endorsement deals go. He was one of the best Centers ever but yet his name wasn't huge.

[Ralphb07]

OK, I'm on a roll.

During the 80's and 90's cable was just rolling out. Ted Turner put his baseball team in the home of almost every household in the US (Braves on WTBS) using cable. As a result of that and a good bit of success, the Braves at one point were the second most popular team in MLB. Jerseys for guys like Maddux, Chipper jones, etc. flew off shelves. When the Braves travelled, Braves fans showed up on the road. This was for a team that, pre-1980 was literally nothing.

The Chicago Bulls have similar leverage. Through WGN superstation, 75% of the homes in the US can see a Bulls game every week without them playing on ESPN or TNT. I think people sorely underestimate the impact this had on Michael Jordan's fame. I hope that the Bulls don't miss this selling point. No other NBA team can touch this level of exposure.

You're right. I've never been to Chicago in my life and Atlanta once, which was well after I became a fan of the Braves. WGN and TBS is the reason I follow both. My uncles watched football in NY, so the Giants stuck with me, but both the Bulls and Braves are because of TBS and WGN

I also tell you something pretty funny. I live in Central Florida which is 2 hours from Tampa and about 3 hours from Miami. I'm about 7 hours from Atlanta and it's a different state but our ESPN radio station is the home of the Atlanta Braves. I find it pretty funny that neither Florida team is aired on it.