Operation Beast: Prospect Thread II

[Esohny]

George ahead of Johnson? It seems like you're trying to hard.

I think Johnson has a bit higher floor, but a lower ceiling.

[Krapinsky]

^^^^^^

My worry is that if we have to give up #4 with Love for Randolph and #6 Johnson won't be there at #6, then we'd have to try and trade up with Sacto for Johnson and trade up again for George. I also forgot to mention Pek as an asset we could use to get it done. Is Sessions, Eliington, Pek, Gomes, #16, #23, Hollins enough to get this done?

I think you just wait til Golden State is picking at 6. If he's there, you make a deal. If he's not, you got to rethink your ink

But I think we should have a back-up plan in place, expecting that Sacto takes Johnson at #5 as BPA. He's not a great fit there, where as Monroe would be. I think we should be in talks with them about that situation, as well.
As far as George is concerned, I really think he winds up going top-10, and it may be tough for us to get back into the mix for him, but we do have a lot of assets to work with, so who knows.

I could live with Henry as a backup plan. We could certainly offer Ellington or the #23 or Sessions to do a 5/6 swap. My main concern is George goes to the Clippers at 8, or to a team trading up to 5 or 7.

[Worm Guts]

George ahead of Johnson? It seems like you're trying to hard.

I'm just not inline with internet group think. People treat Chad Ford and DX as gospel, which shouldn't be the case. It's not the first time I've said George over Johnson. They both have great jumpers. George is longer. George is a better ball handler and much, much better creating off the dribble. George is two years younger. Johnson is quicker, has better hops, and is better in transition. I like them both and ideally I want to get them both, but if I can only have 1, I like George's upside better. Just seems like he has more natural basketball talent.

Johnson actually has a better wingspan. I haven't seen enough to have my own opinion, but I still have yet to see a draft site put George ahead of Johnson. George has sort of been a workout warrior, shooting up the draft boards post-combine.

[horaceworthy]

George is becoming the Magic Randolph of draft prospects. I'm not sure people would be as excited about him if they'd actually seen him play.

[Krapinsky]

George ahead of Johnson? It seems like you're trying to hard.

I'm just not inline with internet group think. People treat Chad Ford and DX as gospel, which shouldn't be the case. It's not the first time I've said George over Johnson. They both have great jumpers. George is longer. George is a better ball handler and much, much better creating off the dribble. George is two years younger. Johnson is quicker, has better hops, and is better in transition. I like them both and ideally I want to get them both, but if I can only have 1, I like George's upside better. Just seems like he has more natural basketball talent.

Johnson actually has a better wingspan. I haven't seen enough to have my own opinion, but I still have yet to see a draft site put George ahead of Johnson. George has sort of been a workout warrior, shooting up the draft boards post-combine.

True, but George the longer standing reach. Wingspan = wider? standing reach = longer?

George didn't get a lot of attention playing at Fresno St. If he played at Syracuse for a Big East elite team, then his stock would have been up there all along.

[horaceworthy]

George pretty much got the attention his play warranted. Upside guys tend to rise once the season ends. Playing at Fresno State didn't help his internet stock during the season, but it's helping it now. People only have the combine and youtube to go on now, which does George more favors than most.

[Krapinsky]

George pretty much got the attention his play warranted. Upside guys tend to rise once the season ends. Playing at Fresno State didn't help his internet stock during the season, but it's helping it now. People only have the combine and youtube to go on now, which does George more favors than most.

The kid played high school ball in Palmdale which is basically in the middle of the desert down here in SoCal. He was only a two star recruit coming out of high school, so when he went to Fresno he had little buzz. His team sucked so he continued to get little buzz. Some were high on him early though -- NBAdraft.net had him in their top 5 after seeing him play over a year ago.

[horaceworthy]

If you're going back to him being overlooked out of high school, I agree (even though decommiting twice, from Santa Clara and Pepperdine was one of the reasons he flew under the radar). That isn't what you said at first, though.

George is pretty much the workout/combine warrior prototype. That's the main reason his stock's risen. His play at Fresno State this past year didn't warrant top 10 hype. His team sucked and he didn't do a whole lot to make them better. His appeal is what he could do, not what he's done.

[Krapinsky]

If you're going back to him being overlooked out of high school, I agree (even though decommiting twice, from Santa Clara and Pepperdine was one of the reasons he flew under the radar). That isn't what you said at first, though.

George is pretty much the workout/combine warrior prototype. That's the main reason his stock's risen. His play at Fresno State this past year didn't warrant top 10 hype. His team sucked and he didn't do a whole lot to make them better. His appeal is what he could do, not what he's done.

His production as a freshman warranted him to be a top 10 pick. You've claimed the same with Hayward, focusing more on his freshman year %'s.

And I'd argue "workout warrior" isn't such a bad thing in the NBA, with the rare case of Joe Alexander who aside form the Bucks interest never belonged in lottery discussions. It's not like the NFL combine though which is strictly based on measurements. George is going head to head in his workouts with other SG talent in the draft, i.e. Crawford, Jones, etc.

[horaceworthy]

His production as a freshman warranted him to be a top 10 pick.

Debatable.

You've claimed the same with Hayward, focusing more on his freshman year %'s.

Oy vey. I pointed to one stat from Hayward's freshman year (3FG%), along with several other factors from his sophomore year and time with the U-19 team to point out that he may be a better shooter than his sophomore 3FG% indicated. The rest of the discussion centered around Hayward's play this past year, and I don't recall claiming he was a top 10 pick. And in that discussion didn't you go on and on about the virtues of DX and try to dismiss the one stat from Hayward's freshman year?

And I'd argue "workout warrior" isn't such a bad thing in the NBA, with the rare case of Joe Alexander who aside form the Bucks interest never belonged in lottery discussions. It's not like the NFL combine though which is strictly based on measurements. George is going head to head in his workouts with other SG talent in the draft, i.e. Crawford, Jones, etc.

Not saying it's a bad thing, just saying that the reason he went overlooked during the season went beyond playing at Fresno State. He's a guy that looks better in an empty gym than in game situations. From a lump of clay standpoint he's one of the better prospects in the draft, so that shouldn't be too surprising.

[Krapinsky]

I'm not sure exactly what your position is anymore. I guess we just disagree on his production? On production alone is he a top 10 pick? Of course not. It's upside baby, but I don't think his production is as bad as your making it out to be. To me it sounds like you're making him Yi Jianlian aka "the chair man" or something.

I'm not sure why from a scouting perspective, as a "lump of clay," he looks better in workouts than he does in a game. He's still showing the same natural ability and talent whether in the game or in workouts.

[horaceworthy]

George didn't get a lot of attention playing at Fresno St. If he played at Syracuse for a Big East elite team, then his stock would have been up there all along.

I was just responding to this statement, no more, no less. He's rising mostly because the types of settings he looks best in are the settings that are being presented right now. I think that most people not seeing how George plays in games outside of highlight reels helps him more than it hurts him. I'm not making his play out as bad, just not top 10 worthy. The main reason it sounds like that is likely because you've completely bought into George, which is fine. It just means that any non-gushing opinion is more likely to come off as hate.

[Krapinsky]

George didn't get a lot of attention playing at Fresno St. If he played at Syracuse for a Big East elite team, then his stock would have been up there all along.

I was just responding to this statement, no more, no less. He's rising mostly because the types of settings he looks best in are the settings that are being presented right now. I think that most people not seeing how George plays in games outside of highlight reels helps him more than it hurts him. I'm not making his play out as bad, just not top 10 worthy. The main reason it sounds like that is likely because you've completely bought into George, which is fine. It just means that any non-gushing opinion is more likely to come off as hate.

I still stand by that statement, but the latter part that was just as much an appreciation of their different roles on each team as much as it was the team he played for. Playing in the big east, in NY, for a great team, definitely is going to get you more exposure. But also playing on a team where you're not relied on to create your own offense and can spot up and get easy transition dunks is going to make you look a lot better than playing on a bad team where you're relied on to force the issue on the offensive end.

[shangrila]

Well I'd have to agree he's not a top 10 pick production wise and he looked raw all season, so it's not like swapping him to some bigger school would have suddenly doubled his skill level.

[younggunsmn]

In the new DX writeup it implied there wasn't much offensive structure at Fresno and he was basically asked to create for himself. Going to a school like Syracuse may have helped him become more well-rounded and improved his efficiency quite a bit with more structure and better coaching. I think he would be rated as highly as Johnson if he had, being 2 years younger.

I was really impressed with how well spoken and knowledgeable about the game he was in the interview there. He mentioned he played a lot of zone at Fresno, so he really couldn't showcase his defensive skills much, and he sees himself as a 2, even at 6-9. Going to a smaller school wasn't because of off-court issues, it was because he was a late bloomer, having grown at least 2-3 inches the past couple years.

[Devilzsidewalk]

time to roll out the final top 30, I think these guys have pretty much settled in for me at long last:

1 WALL
2 TURNER
3 FAVORS
4 COUSINS
5 AMINU
6 ALDRICH
7 JOHNSON
8 GEORGE
9 UDOH
10 MONROE
11 WHITESIDE
12 ANDERSON
13 HENRY
14 SANDERS
15 EBANKS
16 JAMES
17 VARNADO
18 BABBIT
19 JER JORDAN
20 WARREN
21 SERAPHIN
22 DAVIS
23 G HAYWARD
24 PATTERSON
25 WHITE
26 WILLIAMS
27 CRAWFORD
28 LAWAL
29 L HAYWARD
30 BRADLEY

[Krapinsky]

DX just put out new stats, including +/-

Looks bad for Turner, Bradley. Great for Babbit, George, Favors.

[Krapinsky]

time to roll out the final top 30, I think these guys have pretty much settled in for me at long last:

1 WALL
2 TURNER
3 FAVORS
4 COUSINS
5 AMINU
6 ALDRICH
7 JOHNSON
8 GEORGE
9 UDOH
10 MONROE
11 WHITESIDE
12 ANDERSON
13 HENRY
14 SANDERS
15 EBANKS
16 JAMES
17 VARNADO
18 BABBIT
19 JER JORDAN
20 WARREN
21 SERAPHIN
22 DAVIS
23 G HAYWARD
24 PATTERSON
25 WHITE
26 WILLIAMS
27 CRAWFORD
28 LAWAL
29 L HAYWARD
30 BRADLEY

Waaaaaay to high on these. Varnado and Jerome Jordan over Davis, Patterson?

[Krapinsky]

Compare +/- stats of George, Johnson and you can see what I am talking about

http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?q ... e=&sort=14

[Krapinsky]

Strange how Texas was so much worse defensively with Bradley ON the floor.