2010 NBA Draft Thread: Nets Select Derrick Favors

[SpeedyG]

Am I the only one who see a shorter but more athletic Granger in Wes Johnson?

Granger is a scorer, a guy that creates his own shot. Wes is not like that at all. Why do people have an issue with the Marion comparison, i guess everyone forgot how good he was with the Suns, ehh, all-star i believe.

Not sold on Granger being a true #1. He's a great #2 in my opinion, which is what I see Wes' ultimate potential in the NBA.

[Krapinsky]

This has since been rebuffed. Kahn is trying to get Cousins in for a workout. The new word of the street though is that Kahn may have his eye on Favors. So I'll ask this, what would it take to merely swap the 3 and the 4?

Not joking. It would take Rubio or Love. Yes its definitely an overkill, but there is nothing else you can offer that has enough value to do the swap. We have enough late picks ourselves so there wouldn't be much interest in those.

Edit: I'm really high on CDR, but if you insist he is included, so be it.

Love for #3 is certainly a possibility from the Wolves end. Would you do a straight up Love for #3 deal? In my opinion, Favors looks like he'll develop into more of a 5 and would better fit our desire to play a more uptempo game.

Rubio is pretty much untouchable from our front offices view point.

Still, there nothing that we could add to the #4 for a basic 3-4 swap? We could also absorb some of your minor contracts -- Humprhies, Yi, or whomever you wanted to get rid of.

Wolves have the following assets that could be discussed in a 3-4 swap: #16, #23, rights to Nikola Pekovic, Wayne Ellington, Corey Brewer

How about something like this:

NJ out: #3, Humphries, #27
NJ in: #4, #16

[demens]

Love for #3 is certainly a possibility from the Wolves end. Would you do a straight up Love for #3 deal? In my opinion, Favors looks like he'll develop into more of a 5 and would better fit our desire to play a more uptempo game.

Rubio is pretty much untouchable from our front offices view point.

Still, there nothing that we could add to the #4 for a basic 3-4 swap? We could also absorb some of your minor contracts -- Humprhies, Yi, or whomever you wanted to get rid of.

Wolves have the following assets that could be discussed in a 3-4 swap: #16, #23, rights to Nikola Pekovic, Wayne Ellington, Corey Brewer

How about something like this:

NJ out: #3, Humphries, #27
NJ in: #4, #16

I meant, a swap PLUS one of those guys. I did say overkill so dont get mad.

Ellington and Brewer are perimeter guys who aren't upgrades over the guys we already have, so i doubt anyone would have any interest in them. Pekovic i dont know much about honestly

The last deal is not bad but its not ideal. The problem is that the point to trading Humph is to clear enough cap for a 2nd max contract (i find this idea a total joke, but some love it), and this trade does not accomplish that. The 2nd issue i have is that the best pick at #4 is Wes and the best picks around #16 are SFs, i want no part of Whiteside,Orton,Alabi and co. So in order for the team to end up with a big man, we'd have to reach for Monroe at 4 which i dont like. There is always Cousins ofcourse who i think just doesn't fit.

If i thought we are going to do something useful with the extra cap i would consider it, but i dont. And honestly there are guys at #27 that i like more then what might end up being there at #16. But not a bad deal overall imo.

[Krapinsky]

I see. Obviously, we have no interest in giving up Love just to move up one spot. The fan base would become a mob scene if that were the case. If you guys are sold on Favors at #3, then it's a different story, and any discussions will be fruitless. From reading around here, I thought perhaps Johnson was getting some consideration, in which case picking up any additional assets would be a bonus. Clearly Favors is the better value to Johnson, but with a dearth of free agent big men I could see New Jersey giving Johnson some heavy consideration.

[enetric]

^^^^

Aminou isn't that good. I'd rather try to nab Lawal at #27 or #31 if we want an raw SF with decent potential.

You had me until you threw Patrick Patterson under the bus. He's not the "flashy pick" everyone is talking about in the lottery, but this kid has all the skills and leadership qualities to be a solid role player for 8-12 years barring injury. I want to know in-depth why you say this because you really have no conception of the skills this kid has if you make this statement.

That and don't EVER compare Cousins to Brandon Haywood. Haywood plays defense. Always has, always will. Over Cousins whole career, he may not have as many blocked shots that Haywood had in 1 season in his prime. Cousins bottom is Eddie Curry and his ceiling is Zach Randolph.

You're on the money with Wes though. I see a Tayshaun Prince glue guy that will have solid years, but never be THE go to guy.

As for Yi, I still want him to hang around. I do find it funny that his situational stats on offense and defense over his career are better than Beasley

I think Cousins floor might be a lot lower than Curry. My fear is that is his ceiling. I hated Curry even when he was producing stats. But...he did produce. Easy to forget that he produced enough to get that fat contract in the first place. If you told most GM's OK...I cant tell you how his skills will translate into wins and losses, but guaranteed here are the first 7 years on paper and you showed them Curry...1st overall pick. I mean, we forget just home many Stromile Swift's and Marcus Fizers, and Kwame's and Darko's have gone in the top 3. Curry by that standard wasnt a bust. He was worse than that. He was a tease. A cap killing albatross. A bust would actually have been better.

[enetric]

Am I the only one who see a shorter but more athletic Granger in Wes Johnson?

I would love for you to be right as a Cuse fan. But I dont see a guy who will be as good creating his own shot in the pros or be one of the berst 3 point shooters in the NBA. So...on this one, not seeing it.

[enetric]

Am I the only one who see a shorter but more athletic Granger in Wes Johnson?

Granger is a scorer, a guy that creates his own shot. Wes is not like that at all. Why do people have an issue with the Marion comparison, i guess everyone forgot how good he was with the Suns, ehh, all-star i believe.

If he were Marion good I agree...that would be an outstanding pick. Marion was a stud role guy. STUD. But I dont see Wes being that type of rebounder. I dont think he will be as good as Marion either.

[enetric]

This has since been rebuffed. Kahn is trying to get Cousins in for a workout. The new word of the street though is that Kahn may have his eye on Favors. So I'll ask this, what would it take to merely swap the 3 and the 4?

Not joking. It would take Rubio or Love. Yes its definitely an overkill, but there is nothing else you can offer that has enough value to do the swap. We have enough late picks ourselves so there wouldn't be much interest in those.

Edit: I'm really high on CDR, but if you insist he is included, so be it.

Id go, Devin Harris, Humphries the 3 pick and CDR for the 4, Love and Rubio.

[demens]

I see. Obviously, we have no interest in giving up Love just to move up one spot. The fan base would become a mob scene if that were the case. If you guys are sold on Favors at #3, then it's a different story, and any discussions will be fruitless. From reading around here, I thought perhaps Johnson was getting some consideration, in which case picking up any additional assets would be a bonus. Clearly Favors is the better value to Johnson, but with a dearth of free agent big men I could see New Jersey giving Johnson some heavy consideration.

Personally, i'm not sold on Favors, but a lot of the fans are and a lot of them think the Nets are as well. I love the idea of trading down and taking Wes (or some other top 8 guy) but i dont think #16 and #27 swap is enough of a incentive. Taking on Humphries is something people who think 2 max is possible would want, i dont think its possible so i'd rather hold to Humph since i doubt they will bring in anybody better for that money. So taking on Humphs deal is not an incentive for me.

Edit: how about if you take the picks out and add CDR and Love.

#3, Humph, CDR for #4 and Love?

[enetric]

To me...there is no point in trading down in the draft to gain assets that give away cap room unless you LOVE the assets you gained.

I believe Rubio is untoucable not because they are confident he is coming but because they will really look bad of they just dump him in a deal like move up one slot.

That is why I say add Devin Harris. A lot easier to expand the deal and the Nets get a full package of assets they can use without it killing their 2010 cap space and Minny willing to walk away from the Rubio mess if they filled the position with an all star PG.

Its giving up a lot...but getting a lot too.

[SpeedyG]

Curry was really only a cap killer because of one person alone...and that was Isiahahaha. THomas was so desperate that he signed Curry to that deal even knowing of his heart problems. It was a deal that should have never been made in the first place.

[Krapinsky]

This has since been rebuffed. Kahn is trying to get Cousins in for a workout. The new word of the street though is that Kahn may have his eye on Favors. So I'll ask this, what would it take to merely swap the 3 and the 4?

Not joking. It would take Rubio or Love. Yes its definitely an overkill, but there is nothing else you can offer that has enough value to do the swap. We have enough late picks ourselves so there wouldn't be much interest in those.

Edit: I'm really high on CDR, but if you insist he is included, so be it.

Id go, Devin Harris, Humphries the 3 pick and CDR for the 4, Love and Rubio.

I just want to know if this is a joke or not.

[Krapinsky]

I see. Obviously, we have no interest in giving up Love just to move up one spot. The fan base would become a mob scene if that were the case. If you guys are sold on Favors at #3, then it's a different story, and any discussions will be fruitless. From reading around here, I thought perhaps Johnson was getting some consideration, in which case picking up any additional assets would be a bonus. Clearly Favors is the better value to Johnson, but with a dearth of free agent big men I could see New Jersey giving Johnson some heavy consideration.

Personally, i'm not sold on Favors, but a lot of the fans are and a lot of them think the Nets are as well. I love the idea of trading down and taking Wes (or some other top 8 guy) but i dont think #16 and #27 swap is enough of a incentive. Taking on Humphries is something people who think 2 max is possible would want, i dont think its possible so i'd rather hold to Humph since i doubt they will bring in anybody better for that money. So taking on Humphs deal is not an incentive for me.

Edit: how about if you take the picks out and add CDR and Love.

#3, Humph, CDR for #4 and Love?

We would value CDR about as much as an early second round pick, which is to say not so much. We value Love as a high lottery pick in this draft (surveyed recently at #5-6). We would not add Love to the #4 to get Turner, let alone Favors. Favors might be worth adding the #16 pick for us, but nothing more. If you're not at all interested in that then I don't think we can come close to a deal.

[vincecarter4pres]

I think Cousins floor might be a lot lower than Curry. My fear is that is his ceiling. I hated Curry even when he was producing stats. But...he did produce. Easy to forget that he produced enough to get that fat contract in the first place. If you told most GM's OK...I cant tell you how his skills will translate into wins and losses, but guaranteed here are the first 7 years on paper and you showed them Curry...1st overall pick. I mean, we forget just home many Stromile Swift's and Marcus Fizers, and Kwame's and Darko's have gone in the top 3. Curry by that standard wasnt a bust. He was worse than that. He was a tease. A cap killing albatross. A bust would actually have been better.

Wow.

[SpeedyG]

By the way, checking out this Favors highlight reel. I know, it's HS and it's inferior competition, but saw something I liked aside from the dunks and tip ins that usually overload his highlight reel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PB0iKbIXlY&feature=fvsr

Around 35 sec mark...

Check out around 40 second mark...

around 55 second mark...

[enetric]

Curry was really only a cap killer because of one person alone...and that was Isiahahaha. THomas was so desperate that he signed Curry to that deal even knowing of his heart problems. It was a deal that should have never been made in the first place.

I agree, but that wasnt my point. To that point of his career despite question marks he got the contract per his talent, age, and stats. He would have gotten close to that anywhere and you could see it then...red flag...warning...MISTAKE! He wasnt just going to wander off into an MLE deal at that stage of his career. He was going to get paid either way.

[enetric]

I think Cousins floor might be a lot lower than Curry. My fear is that is his ceiling. I hated Curry even when he was producing stats. But...he did produce. Easy to forget that he produced enough to get that fat contract in the first place. If you told most GM's OK...I cant tell you how his skills will translate into wins and losses, but guaranteed here are the first 7 years on paper and you showed them Curry...1st overall pick. I mean, we forget just home many Stromile Swift's and Marcus Fizers, and Kwame's and Darko's have gone in the top 3. Curry by that standard wasnt a bust. He was worse than that. He was a tease. A cap killing albatross. A bust would actually have been better.

Wow.

Pull up Curry's stats before he flamed out. You can evaluate him now as a disaster flame out. But...he was a house. He had great post moves. He didnt miss shots and he had loads of question marks. But the size, the post game and the stats was enough to get him paid. 5 years ago no one would have called Curry a bust and he was a top 3 pick that people were just as blown away with coming out.

You think their havent been bigs who went high in the draft that werent bigger bustsd than Curry? Olowokandi? Pervis Ellison? And see the long list I added above? You love this kid who impressed against boys playing half games minute wise relying on his size.

How is it so impossible to consider the plight of others who have sufered far worse careers than Curry? I am sorry but the NBA is littered with complete busts who went high in the draft...Big Coutry, Adam Morrison, and I can keep going and going and going that were no where near Curry's NBa career.

SO to say that a guy who has terrible conditioning, relies on his size against smaller players, doesnt hustle half the time he plays, doesnt like to be coached cant possibly be a bigger bust?

That's enough to cost you playing time in this league to guys who might be less talented than you are. And that happens all the time. Coach calls you out publically...benches you..and if you have the wrong attitude...trouble follows. Trouble on the court...trouble off it.

I am not crating a far fetched sceanrio here. I an describing reality. You stop short at big Kentucky kid who looks great half the time. Its just not enough to say no way he cant be a bust....or worse as I described...a tease that costs you 10 mil a year for 6 years and makes you regret it by year two.

[enetric]

Id go, Devin Harris, Humphries the 3 pick and CDR for the 4, Love and Rubio.

I just want to know if this is a joke or not.

No. Not at all...but read the explanation I gave you.

There is absolutely no logic to the Nets to trade down just to get an aw shucks throw in. You arent seeing it from what we are positioned to do.

We created a ton of cap rom and have already stockpiled a ton of young highly tradeable assets. Our table is set. We are moving to a major market. We have huge bucks coming. A brand new arena. We are in the hunt and well positioned to add HUGE players. Better than Rubio's upside. Better than Love is as a PF. SO the question becomes...why would we in a draft where we have 3 picks, take on an extra to dilute our top pick? Or take on more contracts to take away cap space when it would our current desire is to possibly move one or two of our smaller contracts to create a bit more?

There is no logic to it from the Nets standpoint. We dont need the throw in players. We are in the hunt for the big pieces. You think Rubio is a lock to come to Minny? You think all will work out well for you in Minny when he does? Cant miss? That is what the Bucks said with Yi.


And you know what? Getting Devin's talent at his age, and his contract size not to have to find out with Rubio? Not to wait for the "hope" is an offer you could end up a year or two from now thinking...damn...wish we had done that. But right now...your fans wont see that. Right now you see Christmas morning an unwrapped big box that absolutely has to be something awesome.

It might not be. And it is clear this kid absolutely doesnt want to be in MInny and has his options. Personally? I think that sucks. Buit that is the way it is.

So yeah, I think you walk away with a proven all star PG on a great contract who would instantly upgrade your team. You would have your choice of the top big in the draft or Turner if he falls, you would have a decent, 1 year cheap contract back up big man, and a pretty good wing player in CDR who is better than a 2nd rounder if you have seen him play. No stud...but absolutely an NBA player.

For both sides...this deal has strong incentives. Otherwise? You havent come up with a reason for us to simply just flip picks with you. we are set up the way we want to be for the BIGGER fish in free agency. Not going to mess that up just for the hell of it.

[jeff1624]

While I don't know if Minny does that deal, I do think it was foolish to say that CDR is as good as a 2nd rounder. He'd probably become their best wing player if that trade were to happen (not counting potential draft picks).

[demens]

While I don't know if Minny does that deal, I do think it was foolish to say that CDR is as good as a 2nd rounder. He'd probably become their best wing player if that trade were to happen (not counting potential draft picks).

Only net fans think CDR, actually, only Net CDR fans think he is worth anything more then a 2nd rounder. Its very questionable to say he'd become the Wolves best wing player, what exactly makes him better then Damien Wilkins, Sasha Pavlovic or Wayne Ellington. Not much if anything at all.