Celtics just won their 18th Championship*

[jsimon]

Who's to say that the refs didn't rig games to make the series go 7 and that if the series was officiated fairly the Lakers wouldn't have won in 5 or 6? Did the celtics only push it to 7 because they are a vastly superior team to the Lakers and were able to play 8 vs 5 the entire series?

Lakers shot more FT's because the Celtics were fouling more.

You shot a staggering 65 more free throws than us, adjusted for intentionals, in the series. You shot more free throws in the 4th of game 7 than we shot all game. You shot more free throws in the 4th of game 7 than you shot in the first three quarters combined. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the refs weren't carrying the Celtic's by putting us at the line.

[Tekkenlaw]

Who's to say that the refs didn't rig games to make the series go 7 and that if the series was officiated fairly the Lakers wouldn't have won in 5 or 6? Did the celtics only push it to 7 because they are a vastly superior team to the Lakers and were able to play 8 vs 5 the entire series?

Lakers shot more FT's because the Celtics were fouling more.

You shot a staggering 65 more free throws than us, adjusted for intentionals, in the series. You shot more free throws in the 4th of game 7 than we shot all game. You shot more free throws in the 4th of game 7 than you shot in the first three quarters combined. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the refs weren't carrying the Celtic's by putting us at the line.

Lakers shot less FT's than their opponents in the first 3 rounds, that simply means that the Lakers were fouling more, not that the league was rigging games to eliminate the Lakers

[jsimon]

Lakers shot less FT's than their opponents in the first 3 rounds, that simply means that the Lakers were fouling more, not that the league was rigging games to eliminate the Lakers

Or maybe they were just trying to carry inferior teams to keep them in the series.

Look, obviously there is no end to this debate, short of some explosive ref gambling and corruption story breaking the news (well, other than the one we already had) it's all conjecture. I'm struggling to digest what I think I saw, and as I said it's the first time in 39 years I came away from a series feeling this way, and I've been around for many a losing series in my time. I'm just gonna have to live with it and decide how to move forward as an NBA fan from here.

[Ad Hominem]

This losing argument still going on? LOL. Lots of signs for you down on Figueroa this morning.

[Hilltop]

When they win everything is champagne and caviar, when they lose they want to smash your hands with a hammer, shoot you in the back of the head, and bury you in a hole in the desert.

They're in a halcyon world; they feel they are entitled to every championship. When they win, the NBA is running as it should and they will not entertain a word to the contrary. When they don't win, the teams that beat them are lucky and the NBA is a sham.

I find the above quotes to be quite ironic.

If anyone, it's Celtic fans who have this burning sense of "entitlement". It's you guys who think everything is good and fair when you win but the NBA is a crooked scam when you lose.

This and countless other threads posted in the last few days are proof of that.

[Hilltop]

The gist of this thread is basically:

Stern gift-wraps championships and manufactures dynasties (ie. Lakers, Bulls, Spurs, etc.). However, the Celtics are not part of this. They are the "good guys" who fight against the odds Stern puts against them and still manage to persevere.

Seriously? It boggles the mind exactly how homeristic and disillusioned some of you have become.

jsimon, you and I agree that there is a "problem". However, I am willing to accept the problem completely, whereas most of you Celtic fans think the "problem" only exists when your team loses or when the Lakers win. Where is the consistency in that? Where is the objectivity?

Make your minds already. Is the NBA crooked or not? If the NBA is NOT crooked and the referees just suck, then fine, complain all you want because you got screwed by incompetence. But if the NBA IS crooked, then do the world a favor and shut the hell up because you have no right to "claim" a championship more than any other team in the league.

[jsimon]

jsimon, you and I agree that there is a "problem". However, I am willing to accept the problem completely, whereas most of you Celtic fans think the "problem" only exists when your team loses or when the Lakers win. Where is the consistency in that? Where is the objectivity?

This is my last post before going back into message board retirement. If you really took the time to read all my posts you would have seen that I am not some paranoid homer. There were many series in the past that the Celtics have lost fair and square that I didn't think there was any funny business going on, including just last season to Orlando. I have also seen the Lakers win many rings that I didn't think were just handed to them by the officials. I have seen the same officiating shadiness that I saw happen Finals 2010 happen to other teams in the NBA though, where my suspicions were peaked, but for obvious reasons I didn't care as much. That doesn't make me a hypocrite, just a Celtics fan.

You seem to agree that the NBA has a problem. Whether it's just an incompetence/perception problem or real corruption is up for debate. Other than one FBI investigation and cheating referee, we have no real proof of anything (unless that's enough for you). We only have what our eyes tell us. Some are more discerning in this role than others, having watched many more years of NBA games. I assure you this ref issue is a more recent phenomenon, only in the last 10 years or so has it really gotten this bad.

The problem I have with your blanket statement, that this is "either happening all the time to every Champion, or it's not happening at all," is that I don't believe it's happening in every single playoff series, or every single game. I believe the NBA has a vested interest in some players more than others, and in some teams more than others. I'm not saying the Celtics are the Sacramento Kings, but we haven't exactly been given favorite son status by David Stern and the NBA. After two player deaths (with no league relief on salary cap after Reggie Lewis died) and two horrific lottery debacles, we have been in one title run stretch in 25 years. I'm not going to question the Lakers good fortune, but I can say one thing without debate: The Lakers are the most marketable team in the NBA. If any team is going to find itself embroiled in some questionable officiating performances that seem to benefit them, it's the Lakers.

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree, since I'm never going to convince a Laker fan that the refs aided their victory in the 2010 Finals, and personally I'm never going to be convinced that the refs didn't carry you on their backs in the 4th quarter game 7.

It is what it is.

[JordansBulls]

F*** the Lakers. They won the game on FREE throws in the 4th.

-bulls fan

But yeah, shooting 20+ free throws in the last quarter makes it seem like this was handed to LA.

[Hilltop]

jsimon, you and I agree that there is a "problem". However, I am willing to accept the problem completely, whereas most of you Celtic fans think the "problem" only exists when your team loses or when the Lakers win. Where is the consistency in that? Where is the objectivity?

This is my last post before going back into message board retirement. If you really took the time to read all my posts you would have seen that I am not some paranoid homer. There were many series in the past that the Celtics have lost fair and square that I didn't think there was any funny business going on, including just last season to Orlando. I have also seen the Lakers win many rings that I didn't think were just handed to them by the officials. I have seen the same officiating shadiness that I saw happen Finals 2010 happen to other teams in the NBA though, where my suspicions were peaked, but for obvious reasons I didn't care as much. That doesn't make me a hypocrite, just a Celtics fan.

You seem to agree that the NBA has a problem. Whether it's just an incompetence/perception problem or real corruption is up for debate. Other than one FBI investigation and cheating referee, we have no real proof of anything (unless that's enough for you). We only have what our eyes tell us. Some are more discerning in this role than others, having watched many more years of NBA games. I assure you this ref issue is a more recent phenomenon, only in the last 10 years or so has it really gotten this bad.

The problem I have with your blanket statement, that this is "either happening all the time to every Champion, or it's not happening at all," is that I don't believe it's happening in every single playoff series, or every single game. I believe the NBA has a vested interest in some players more than others, and in some teams more than others. I'm not saying the Celtics are the Sacramento Kings, but we haven't exactly been given favorite son status by David Stern and the NBA. After two player deaths (with no league relief on salary cap after Reggie Lewis died) and two horrific lottery debacles, we have been in one title run stretch in 25 years. I'm not going to question the Lakers good fortune, but I can say one thing without debate: The Lakers are the most marketable team in the NBA. If any team is going to find itself embroiled in some questionable officiating performances that seem to benefit them, it's the Lakers.

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree, since I'm never going to convince a Laker fan that the refs aided their victory in the 2010 Finals, and personally I'm never going to be convinced that the refs didn't carry you on their backs in the 4th quarter game 7.

It is what it is.

First of all, I'm neither a Laker or Celtics fan. I'm just an outsider dropping my two cents.

Second, I didn't say Stern intervenes in every series/game. Obviously there are teams he is more interested in than others. What I'm sayin is, if we are going to assume that the NBA is crooked, then I don't think you should feel like you were the rightful owners of a Championship.

There's always that question "Who wins the title if the NBA were 100% legit?". Well let me break it to ya. The answer isn't the Boston Celtics. The correct answer is, WE DON'T KNOW. In a compromised situation, it is virtually impossible to determine who the best team really is. The extent of the cheating is irrelevant. The entire sample becomes tainted (in my eyes at least) by the mere thought that there is any form of tampering going on.

[Ad Hominem]

Hubris or foreshadowing, I just don't know...

[jsimon]

Second, I didn't say Stern intervenes in every series/game. Obviously there are teams he is more interested in than others. What I'm sayin is, if we are going to assume that the NBA is crooked, then I don't think you should feel like you were the rightful owners of a Championship.

I never in any of these posts claimed that we were the "rightful" owners of the title. The furthest I was willing to go was, and I quote, "I believe had they just "let 'em play" for one last quarter we would have had a fair chance at a victory." This doesn't say I think we would have won, just that we wouldn't have been battling the Lakers, as well as the refs, for the victory.

There's always that question "Who wins the title if the NBA were 100% legit?". Well let me break it to ya. The answer isn't the Boston Celtics. The correct answer is, WE DON'T KNOW. In a compromised situation, it is virtually impossible to determine who the best team really is. The extent of the cheating is irrelevant. The entire sample becomes tainted (in my eyes at least) by the mere thought that there is any form of tampering going on.

I agree, that's why I'm trying to call attention to the problem so we can return to athletic competition instead of athletic "entertainment." I don't mind losing, I mind getting cheated by officials. A problem mind you that we have both agreed exists.

[jsimon]

Hubris or foreshadowing, I just don't know...

It's called motivation.

[meatball sub]

This thread is a **** embarrassment...

[jsimon]

This thread is a **** embarrassment...

I take it by your pithy yet insightful observation that you think the officiating in the NBA is just peachy?

[Leprechaun18]

We were doomed when they had two crawford's reffing the game. If the stern gang was interested in having fair officiating then it would give up its control of officiating. Establish a officiating review panel, with one member from each team in NBA to review refs. Instead it retains control and keeps its company men like j. crawford who stern personally brought back into the league, on the payroll.

[Maple Green]

If DA successfully trade Ray last February deadline for Caron Butler and Boozer do you think outcome of championship was also change?

[Bgil]

So I have a question...

If the refs changed the style of officiating in the 4th to benefit the Lakers then why didn't the refs just call the entire game tight instead of letting the first three quarters turn into a rugby game?

[dabien2]

This post is just sad. It's like a bunch of Suns fans pretending to be Celtics fans. I don’t understand the motivation of the NBA to fix Game 7. It would be all risk and no reward. The NBA itself wouldn’t make any more money if the Lakers won instead of Celtics and risks pissing off the entire fan base.

As a Lakers’ fan, I never complain or talk about NBA conspiracy theories and here’s why. Either the NBA fixes outcomes of series (I’m not talking about extending series) or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, then there is nothing to complain about. If it does, as a Lakers’ fan, the NBA is helping my team. As the NBA’s other premiere team, the Celtics would only be helped by this conspiracy. Either way, it doesn’t hurt your team, it actually would help them. Leave the conspiracy theories to other teams, it belittles your franchise….

[jsimon]

So I have a question...

If the refs changed the style of officiating in the 4th to benefit the Lakers then why didn't the refs just call the entire game tight instead of letting the first three quarters turn into a rugby game?

My guess is they wanted to appear impartial for as long as they could. They wanted to give the Lakers a chance to win the game without the help of the refs, the help with which they had so obviously needed in games 1 and 3. Alas, since the Lakers couldn't take a lead, or mount any kind of offense whatsoever in a "let 'em play" style game, even with our starting center out and killing us on the boards as a result, the NBA decided they had better intervene. It would have been embarrassing to have the Lakers lose on their home floor in a game 7. Bad for Kobe marketing (we'll just ignore his 6-24 performance), and bad for Laker marketing.

[jsimon]

As a Lakers’ fan, I never complain or talk about NBA conspiracy theories and here’s why. Either the NBA fixes outcomes of series (I’m not talking about extending series) or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, then there is nothing to complain about. If it does, as a Lakers’ fan, the NBA is helping my team.

The entire problem in a nutshell, and why listening to Lakers fans in this thread is useless.