#13 for Fernandez+#22 (Deal dead, pg. 26)

[Komodo]

Rudy is absolutely the better player, yes. By a good margin.

And almost $2 million cap space saved.

Here's the rub. Sending out Marco for rudy, with Bosh going, should Amir also price himself out of our range for his talents, we'd have nine players under contract and $45 million in salaries. Because of the trade and downgrade of salaries for the draft picks, we might have $10 million in cap space after two capholds.

Yeah, that's a great idea. Let's use $10 mil in cap space this summer. We might get that one FA who puts us over the top. I mean with the Hedo/Jose/Bargs core already established here, we can't go wrong.

[Randle McMurphy]

To add this is the kind of move that Colaneglo's tenure here will be known for. Rudy would be just good enough on our roster and comparative to our young wings that he'd likely start and be productive. However not productive enough to a) push a team into a new bracket of competition b) solidify a niche role that would be essential to any legit starting unit or c) truly justify depriving younger talent from growing into a similar role with potentially higher pay off.

Colangelo's acquisitions always fall into this category.

He seems incapable of building a team properly.

[darthkiller]

then raptor signs darko and have an all euro team

[Harry Palmer]

How relevant is this considering that any Bosh S&T would keep up above the cap?

I think you missed where it was proposed that the Incredibly-Valuable-Asset-We-Might-Land-For-Bosh would be simply renounced if the right Free Agent final piece to the puzzle came our way.

Good God.

[Randle McMurphy]

Yeah, that's a great idea. Let's use $10 mil in cap space this summer. We might get that one FA who puts us over the top. I mean with the Hedo/Jose/Bargs core already established here, we can't go wrong.

Some still don't seem to understand how flawed this core really is and how badly a rebuild is needed. Maybe even Colangelo himself.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Why the sudden hate for Rudy? A lot of people wanted this guy half a year ago. I haven't seen him play so I can't say much.

He had one good year, one bad year. He's coming off the bad year. He also doesn't seem to care much for the NBA and has bitched to the Spanish media about his role, wanting to go back to Spain, etc. Not only that, but he was hesitant to come over to begin with. The Blazer braintrust had to fly over to Spain and feed him grapes just to get him to sign. This isn't the kind of trade value that lets you move up in the draft, IMO, no matter the talent.

[dagger]

Dagger, that's if we let Bosh just walk, right?

Even if we trade him for a pick, and a TPE. We could renounce the TPE if there was a worthy free agent to sign.

Also, remember various trades - Calderon, Turkuglu, expirings, etc. can be set up to generate a few hundred thousand dollars more in cap space, maybe even a couple of million (i.e. we trade $9 million in Jose for $8 million incoming.)

We've been talking as if we have no role to play in free agency this year, but there are scenarios where this would not be the case. Dealing Rudy for Marco as part of a pick swap would be such and example

[just23]

I don't mind Rudy, but I don't really see the point. We don't need more average players here. We need a new core, or at least role players who are defensively focused. No more soft euro ball. I'm sure there are tough, defensive minded european players around, but rudy isn't one of them.

[Komodo]

Yeah, that's a great idea. Let's use $10 mil in cap space this summer. We might get that one FA who puts us over the top. I mean with the Hedo/Jose/Bargs core already established here, we can't go wrong.

Some still don't seem to understand how flawed this core really is and how badly a rebuild is needed. Maybe even Colangelo himself.

Try telling that to the crowd who continuously renew their season tickets, regardless of the product on the floor. I mean, it's all about going to the games to watch the other team's star players, right?

[Indiana Jones]

good god what a disgusting trade. another overrated underperformer and a lower pick for our pick? yuck...

[sanity]

All this does is set the Raptors up for a trade involving Fernandez down the road. Why lose our draft position for the sake of squiring more 'potential' talent? Including Belinelli in any trade is mindbogglingly dumb, unless its an admittance on Bryan's part that extending his rookie contract last September was another dumb move that needed to be addressed via trade.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Rudy is absolutely the better player, yes. By a good margin.

By what measure is he better? Not by playing time; not by stats. One might be more talented than the other yet both have accomplished little on their respective teams.

And almost $2 million cap space saved.

Here's the rub. Sending out Marco for rudy, with Bosh going, should Amir also price himself out of our range for his talents, we'd have nine players under contract and $45 million in salaries. Because of the trade and downgrade of salaries for the draft picks, we might have $10 million in cap space after two capholds.

How relevant is this considering that any Bosh S&T would keep up above the cap?

[bboyskinnylegs]

It may not be involved in this deal, but don't be surprised if we deal 13th.

If we're targeting young, underutilized talent, I want Thad Young.

Absolutely. There's a big difference between trading our pick for Thaddeus Young, and trading down 9 spots for Rudy Fernandez. The former is as good a prospect as George or Henry (he's proven, athletic, underutilized, efficient, and has legit size to play SF for us), so you can justify the trade. Rudy is inconsistent, and brings offers little more over what Belinelli brings--certainly not worth moving down from the talent available at #13.

[dagger]

Rudy is absolutely the better player, yes. By a good margin.

By what measure is he better? Not by playing time; not by stats. One might be more talented than the other yet both have accomplished little on their respective teams.

And almost $2 million cap space saved.

Here's the rub. Sending out Marco for rudy, with Bosh going, should Amir also price himself out of our range for his talents, we'd have nine players under contract and $45 million in salaries. Because of the trade and downgrade of salaries for the draft picks, we might have $10 million in cap space after two capholds.

How relevant is this considering that any Bosh S&T would keep up above the cap?

A Bosh sign and trade for picks and a TPE would give us the option of using the cap space or the TPE.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

To add this is the kind of move that Colaneglo's tenure here will be known for. Rudy would be just good enough on our roster and comparative to our young wings that he'd likely start and be productive. However not productive enough to a) push a team into a new bracket of competition b) solidify a niche role that would be essential to any legit starting unit or c) truly justify depriving younger talent from growing into a similar role with potentially higher pay off.

Colangelo's acquisitions always fall into this category.

He seems incapable of building a team properly.

How about we stop bashing Colangelo in this thread for this deal since he's the one who put it on ice?

[SkywalkerAC]

is rudy not a better guard right now than Xavier Henry? i don't want either of course, just a litte too small for my liking when we've already got DD and Sonny (explosive athletes but a little on the small side).

there are also going to be some interesting bigs down at 22. Seraphin, Whiteside, maybe Alabi. Guys that might have more potentia than Adrich.

didn't they get the 34th pick yesterday? that would seal the deal. and yeah, flip Rudy for Chandler.

advise that the Bulls take Bradley. take Whiteside at 22. Ebanks at 34.

[s e n s i]

To add this is the kind of move that Colaneglo's tenure here will be known for. Rudy would be just good enough on our roster and comparative to our young wings that he'd likely start and be productive. However not productive enough to a) push a team into a new bracket of competition b) solidify a niche role that would be essential to any legit starting unit or c) truly justify depriving younger talent from growing into a similar role with potentially higher pay off.

This is a money post. Sums up my thoughts about this trade verbatim.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Rudy is absolutely the better player, yes. By a good margin.

By what measure is he better? Not by playing time; not by stats. One might be more talented than the other yet both have accomplished little on their respective teams.

And almost $2 million cap space saved.

Here's the rub. Sending out Marco for rudy, with Bosh going, should Amir also price himself out of our range for his talents, we'd have nine players under contract and $45 million in salaries. Because of the trade and downgrade of salaries for the draft picks, we might have $10 million in cap space after two capholds.

How relevant is this considering that any Bosh S&T would keep up above the cap?

A Bosh sign and trade for picks and a TPE would give us the option of using the cap space or the TPE.

A TPE would probably be bigger and also allow us to use our MLE, right?

[Kayjay]

I like some of the guys at the 22 range almost better than who we have to choose from at 13.

^This is me desperately reaching for a bright side in this mess.

[Jonn]

Oh please no... god the last thing we need is another chucking Euro. His second season was nowhere near as good as his first season. This would be a stupid trade... Bellinelli 2.0.