Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space?

[AXL2018]

this would be so stupid arenas could come back and play great and we worth way more than just a salary dump even if we dump gilbert dont give him to the magic he is what they need

[WizStorm]

Here's some more fodder for those who like trying to read the tea leaves:
http://ca.reuters.com/article/sportsNew ... dChannel=0

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A backcourt duo featuring John Wall and Gilbert Arenas could create problems for the Washington Wizards but the team's general manager said on Tuesday he was confident the two will raise each other's game.

Arenas has a career 22.7 scoring average and many believe the nine-year NBA veteran will have problems sharing the ball and the spotlight with the highly-touted rookie.

But Wizards general manager Ernie Grunfeld said he believed the two dynamic guards will complement each other and provide a shot in the arm to the success-starved franchise.

"Of course we think about it," Grunfeld told Reuters when asked if the two guards would be able to exist with one basketball. "But we think they can play together.

"They're both 6-foot-4 and they can both handle the basketball. Gilbert is more of a scoring point guard, while John is a little bit more of a distributing point guard."

Flip Saunders, a 14-year NBA head coach in his second year on the Wizards' bench, does not see a problem with two floor leaders on the court at the same time.

"They're two different players," Saunders, told Reuters. "John Wall is a pass-first point guard. When you have a guy who can score like Gilbert, he gives Wall the ability to do a lot of things."

The Wizards will hope Arenas, hampered by a knee injury in recent seasons and suspended for most of the 2009-10 campaign for bringing guns into the team's locker room, can return to his All-Star form.

[tontoz]

Gortat and Vince<<<<<Arenas.

It depends on what you mean. In terms of current value yes Arenas is more valuable. However the Wizards aren't going to be title contenders next year. If they are going to be title contenders down the road they will need a tough, defensiive/rebounding C next to Blatche. That type of player isn't that easy to aquire. Gortat would be a great fit next to Blatche and he is signed to a MLE contract.

Gortat is a very strong defender, rebounder and shotblocker. I think this would be a good move.

[Halcyon]

I would be weary of taking on a guy who has not proved he can do it for long stretches in starter minutes who is signed to a longterm deal, even if it is at the MLE level. With the new CBA coming up I would be careful with what we take on. With that said, if it means Arenas and his huge salary is gone, the front office might be fine with it, and it might be the only way they move Arenas.

[tontoz]

I would be weary of taking on a guy who has not proved he can do it for long stretches in starter minutes who is signed to a longterm deal, even if it is at the MLE level. With the new CBA coming up I would be careful with what we take on. With that said, if it means Arenas and his huge salary is gone, the front office might be fine with it, and it might be the only way they move Arenas.

Gortat would be a starter on most teams easily. His per 36 numbers are 10/11 with 2.4 blocks and have been consistent the last two years. His big problem is that he happens to play behind Howard.

If this trade happened the Wizards would have long term starters at the 1, 4 and 5 spots (assuming Wall is what we expect and Blatche continues to develop). those are the toughest spots to fill. It is not tough to get a high caliber swingman through the draft, trade or free agency.

Just look at the 2006 draft. Roy and Gay were the 6th and 7th picks behind Bargnani, Aldridge, Morrison, Tyrus and Shelden. All other things being equal bigs and pgs will be taken ahead of swingmen in the draft.

It would be hard to imagine a worse free agent destination than Atlanta in 2005. They had just won 13 games and drafted Marvin ahead of Paul/Deron yet were able to pry JJ away from the title contending Suns.

Arenas is nothing special. Getting rid of that contract and adding Gortat is an easy call IMO.

[nate33]

I would be weary of taking on a guy who has not proved he can do it for long stretches in starter minutes who is signed to a longterm deal, even if it is at the MLE level. With the new CBA coming up I would be careful with what we take on. With that said, if it means Arenas and his huge salary is gone, the front office might be fine with it, and it might be the only way they move Arenas.

I think Gortat would be a good fit.

I figure any "grunt" center better than Gortat is going to cost more than Gortat. If the ultimate plan is to tag team with a grunt center and McGee, we really don't want to be paying the $10M or so a year it costs for a normal staring center. I don't mind much if Gortat could only maintain his level of production for 20-24 minutes a game or so. That's really all we need because we have McGee who can play 24-28 minutes.

The wildcard here is Seraphin. I don't know yet if he projects to be a center or a PF, and I don't know if he'll pan out to be good enough to defend against opposing starting centers. Obviously, if he pans out, then we have our center situation in good hands between Seraphin and McGee.

For that reason, I'm a little hesitant to commit to Gortat for such a long period of time. I think I'd rather make do with a stopgap center like a Rasho Nesterovic for a year so we can get a better idea on how McGee and Seraphin are going to pan out.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If EG wants another destination to send Gilbert to, how about Sacramento? They traded for Dalembert. They drafted Cousins and Whitesides. That's too many Cs with Thompson also on their roster.

I know this sucks, but how about in a couple months Arenas for Udrih and Dalembert?

Wizards could have the following countries represented: Slovenia, Haiti, China, French Guiana, Senegal, and IOWA. It's not about the team or how good it could be, mind you. Just the representation of many nationalities.

[yungal07]

Gortat is expensive trash. No way would I want him here.

[TheKingOfVa360]

Gortat is expensive trash. No way would I want him here.

I agree, Arenas is a special player. We need to just team him with Wall and see how it goes.

[Kanyewest]

If EG wants another destination to send Gilbert to, how about Sacramento? They traded for Dalembert. They drafted Cousins and Whitesides. That's too many Cs with Thompson also on their roster.

I know this sucks, but how about in a couple months Arenas for Udrih and Dalembert?

Wizards could have the following countries represented: Slovenia, Haiti, China, French Guiana, Senegal, and IOWA. It's not about the team or how good it could be, mind you. Just the representation of many nationalities.

Arenas
Evans
Casspi/Greene
Thompson/Landry
Cousins/Brockman

I still think the Kings would not be willing to do this deal although I could see them exploring a deal like that if they are competitive by the trading deadline. The Wizards would have a huge void at the sg position unless Nick Young shows some dramatic improvement.

[RickRoll_inDC]

If EG wants another destination to send Gilbert to, how about Sacramento? They traded for Dalembert. They drafted Cousins and Whitesides. That's too many Cs with Thompson also on their roster.

I know this sucks, but how about in a couple months Arenas for Udrih and Dalembert?

Wizards could have the following countries represented: Slovenia, Haiti, China, French Guiana, Senegal, and IOWA. It's not about the team or how good it could be, mind you. Just the representation of many nationalities.

HEY! WATCH IT CCJ! I LIVE IN IOWA YOU JERK! HOW DARE YOU INSULT THE GREAT STATE OF IOWA!

But anyway, yes it does suck. Terrible trade. Worst thought ever. of course, I may just be mad at you for disrespecting Iowa.....

I'll reconsider the trade in the morning.

[Silvie Lysandra]

Arenas is nothing special. Getting rid of that contract and adding Gortat is an easy call IMO.

This is how good a "prime" Arenas was.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... der_by=per


As you can see, Arenas was already putting up numbers analogous to Hall of Famers when he was healthy. So to argue that he is "nothing special" is utterly ridiculous.

Be honest - replace "Gilbert Arenas" with "LeBron" or "Wade" - how many people who rip Arenas would be more patient with the latter two? Those two are considered "franchise players" and most likely, people would gladly wait 1, 2, even 3 years to get them back to a high level. But Arenas? Nah, he's a headcase and a team cancer, and he's not that good anyway, is he?

Nothing special...

It's crap like that that makes me want to go "**** you all, he's STAYING".

[willbcocks]

During those same three years when Gil averaged a per of 23, players he was guarding averaged a per of 19, and the Wiz gave up 110 points per 100 possessions when he was on the floor.

He'll qualify for another sport's hall of fame too:




Don't get me wrong--he was a great offensive player and probably still is a very good one. But it was ridiculous at the time, and it's even more ridiculous now, to compare him to Wade or Bron.

[tontoz]

Arenas is nothing special. Getting rid of that contract and adding Gortat is an easy call IMO.

This is how good a "prime" Arenas was.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... der_by=per


As you can see, Arenas was already putting up numbers analogous to Hall of Famers when he was healthy. So to argue that he is "nothing special" is utterly ridiculous.

Be honest - replace "Gilbert Arenas" with "LeBron" or "Wade" - how many people who rip Arenas would be more patient with the latter two? Those two are considered "franchise players" and most likely, people would gladly wait 1, 2, even 3 years to get them back to a high level. But Arenas? Nah, he's a headcase and a team cancer, and he's not that good anyway, is he?

Nothing special...

It's crap like that that makes me want to go "**** you all, he's STAYING".

I could make that same argument about Vince Carter. He was a special player but certainly isn't now.

Arenas is turnover prone, doesn't play D and is a career 42.6% shooter. He has not shown that he is the same player since coming back from a season ending injury. Comparing him to Lebron and Wade is a joke.

[nate33]

Arenas is turnover prone, doesn't play D and is a career 42.6% shooter. He has not shown that he is the same player since coming back from a season ending injury. Comparing him to Lebron and Wade is a joke.

Sigh.

You are mistaken. As are most Arenas haters.

Gilbert is not turnover prone. His turnover rate is pretty low considering his usage rate. He is also not an inefficient shooter. The FG% stat became obsolete the day the 3-pointer was instituted. Use eFG%, or better yet TS% or ORtg.

During his last 3 healthy years, he was one of the most efficient volume scorers in the league. Here is a screen of all the players in the last decade who averaged 25 or more points in a season, ranked by ORtg (which accounts for turnovers). Arenas last 3 healthy seasons rank 15th, 16th and 17th out of 73 player-seasons. Only Dirk, Amare and Lebron are consistently more efficient than Arenas.

[Silvie Lysandra]

[quote=Tontoz]FG%[/quote]

Oh please, I can tell right there you used FG% as opposed to TS% or even EFG to bolster your argument. Arenas from 2004-2006 had roughly the same TS%.

Wade is more turnover prone than a healthy Arenas, LeBron is slightly less.

My point was that if the same chain of events had happened to Lebron or Wade, people would absolutely be willing to overlook them because of how good they are. Arenas is a similar class of player who has not gotten those overlooked.

Comparing Arenas and Vince (unclutch, much less efficient than Arenas, soft both physically and mentally, shoddy work ethic) is more of a joke than comparing Arenas and Wade.

During those same three years when Gil averaged a per of 23, players he was guarding averaged a per of 19, and the Wiz gave up 110 points per 100 possessions when he was on the floor

That happens when you play a player out of position (Arenas is a SG, and will be better guarding SGs). Meanwhile, we were worse defensively with anyone else we put on the floor at the position, and we generally had 3 or more atrocious defenders on the court at any given time.

I'm not saying Arenas was a good defender then, but neither was pre-Olympics Wade, and neither was (is?) LeBron (he is effective on defense because of his tools, and the blocks are pretty amazing, but his effort or technique are nothing to write home about)

[tontoz]

Comparing Arenas and Vince (unclutch, much less efficient than Arenas, soft both physically and mentally, shoddy work ethic) is more of a joke than comparing Arenas and Wade.

Not only has Vince consistently been one of the most clutch players in the league, he also shoots better from the field and 3 than Arenas. The only advantage Arenas has over Vince in terms of scoring efficiency is getting to the line. Their career average ppg is nearly identical.

From 2003 to 2009 only Lebron had more game winners than Carter.

Wade's career average of 26.6 shooting 47.6% is far better than Arenas, and Wade plays on both ends.

Please remove your nose from the the vicinity of Arenas' nether regions. I think the methane is starting to impair your cognitive functions.

[nate33]

Wade's career average of 26.6 shooting 47.6% is far better than Arenas, and Wade plays on both ends.

Please remove your nose from the the vicinity of Arenas' nether regions. I think the methane is starting to impair your cognitive functions.

Wade's eFG% in his last 3 healthy seasons: (I'm ignoring 2007/08)
.500
.516
.502

Arenas' eFG% in his last 3 healthy seasons:
.484
.507
.498


Pretty close, with Wade getting a small edge. But consider this:

Wade's Turnover percentage in his last 3 healthy seasons:
9.8
9.3
12.0

Arenas' Turnover percentage in his last 3 healthy seasons:
9.3
10.6
9.8

Overall, their roughly equal in offensive efficiency. I'd give Wade the edge because his propensity to take it to the lane results in him being more consistent. Arenas is more hot and cold. Wade is definitely a better defender. But nobody here thinks Arenas is better than Wade so I'm not sure why you brought it up in the first place. I just took the opportunity to point out that they're a lot closer in offensive production than you think.

Your comparison of Carter to Vince is laughable. In Arenas best 3 seasons he scored more points with greater efficiency than ANY of Carter's seasons - even his career year way back in 2000. If you look at Carter's production over the past 5 years, it's no comparison.

If you want to bash Arenas, stick to the injury concerns and the defense. Arenas offensive ability is elite. There aren't more than 10 players in the league who are better offensive players than a healthy Arenas.

[tontoz]

Wade's career average of 26.6 shooting 47.6% is far better than Arenas, and Wade plays on both ends.

Please remove your nose from the the vicinity of Arenas' nether regions. I think the methane is starting to impair your cognitive functions.

Wade's eFG% in his last 3 healthy seasons: (I'm ignoring 2007/08)
.500
.516
.502

Arenas' eFG% in his last 3 healthy seasons:
.484
.507
.498


Pretty close, with Wade getting a small edge. But consider this:

Wade's Turnover percentage in his last 3 healthy seasons:
9.8
9.3
12.0

Arenas' Turnover percentage in his last 3 healthy seasons:
9.3
10.6
9.8

Overall, their roughly equal in offensive efficiency. I'd give Wade the edge because his propensity to take it to the lane results in him being more consistent. Arenas is more hot and cold. Wade is definitely a better defender. But nobody here thinks Arenas is better than Wade so I'm not sure why you brought it up in the first place. I just took the opportunity to point out that they're a lot closer in offensive production than you think.

Your comparison of Carter to Vince is laughable. In Arenas best 3 seasons he scored more points with greater efficiency than ANY of Carter's seasons - even his career year way back in 2000. If you look at Carter's production over the past 5 years, it's no comparison.

If you want to bash Arenas, stick to the injury concerns and the defense. Arenas offensive ability is elite. There aren't more than 10 players in the league who are better offensive players than a healthy Arenas.

I am not the one who brought Wade's name up. That was Chaos.

Secondly lol @ talking about the last 5 years since Arenas hasn't played a full season since 2007. Carter has scored over 20 ppg 10 times. The only seasons he didn't make it were his rookie season, this past season where he clearly fell off and during a season where he only played 20 games.

You can't just use a players best seasons to compare careers.

[nate33]

Forgive me if I don't use the two seasons when Arenas played on one leg as a barometer for his future production.

Last season, if you ignore the first 15 games when he was shaking off two years of rust, Arenas was posting 25, 8 and 5 with a TS% around 54%. His TS% was a touch lower than his peak level of 57%, but other than that, he was the old Arenas. With another 10 months of rest and rehab for his knee, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect pretty close to his peak production.