Arenas for Vince or dump Arenas for cap space?

[nate33]

So Nate you want to keep Arenas? I´m a little confused on where you stand.

You can't be serious. I must have 50 posts in this thread. I think my position is pretty clear.

[barelyawake]

For those saying, without Arenas, we'd be perhaps the tenth or twelfth worst team, please list the teams you think would be worse than us. Please remember our depth chart (including our bench) when doing this.

[nate33]

Cleveland, Toronto, New Jersey and Detroit.

[Kanyewest]

I'm getting a bit sick of hearing the OKC argument. First off, I think the Wizards window of sucking and getting a high lottery pick is smaller than people think. Teams like the Hornets and Jazz were not in ping ball contention after they picked CP3 and Deron Williams. The Hornets finished with 38 wins while the Jazz finished with 41. If John Wall has the same kind of ability, then the Wizards could expect a similar turn around. I would also say that trading for Carter is won't work because in the short term he would also hurt the Wizards ability to tank some games.

While Seattle/OKC saved a lot money by trading Allen, they lost in a talent standpoint of the trade. Yes the Thunder were able to secure Russell Westbrook, although maybe Westbrook would have slipped if OKC had not taken him; the Thunder may have been better served taking a big man like Lopez. I bet that wasn't the plan though- they probably wanted Jeff Green to pan out to more than just a decent role player. Presti also taking Harden over Evan and Curry still confuses me; then again Harden has turned out to be a lot better than I thought he would be.

Either way, Seattle was a lottery team and they had Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis. Add a rookie Durant and subtract a veteran Lewis, the Sonics probably see themselves in the lottery again; (although what were the odds of them getting the #2 pick in the first place?). People also tend to leave out that the Celtics went on to win a championship .

While the OKC could produce good results, as far as I'm concerned, it hasn't produced anything significant. Yes, the Thunder got 50 wins last season, but 7 other teams in the Western Conference could boast about that too. The Thunder had an interesting series against the Lakers. But considering that a Yao-less Rockets team took the Lakers to 7 games the year before, it's not THAT impressive. As much as I want Durant to succeed, I don't see the Thunder as contenders especially since they don't have a low post offense.

Fourth, Seattle could afford to tank away a season because they were moving to Oklahoma City. Can the Wizards really alienate their fan base by trading Arenas who WAS the face of the franchise?

I agree that Wall and Arenas can help each other become better players. Wall will learn how to play with someone else who needs the ball in his hands- which he'll have to do one time or the other if the Wizards really want to be a championship contender. Arenas will also spread the floor for John Wall and take away some of the burden as well.

I also think Arenas wasn't that far off from being a top 20 player in the league last year. I think he was getting more acclimated in December but he still needed to cut down on those turnovers to become a special player again.

[JonathanJoseph]

JoJo, think we're closer to Russell Westbroook''s rookie team than to Rose's. That team went 23-59 and got a comparable year out of Durant (20.6 PER) as to what I expect from Gil. They decent years out of Collison and Jeff Green and contributions from Krstic, Wilcox, Earl Watson, Kyle Weaver, and Sefolosha.

How can we call McGee's improvement a mirage? We can't even call it his improvement yet! He dominated summer league, thanks it large part to Wall. I'm unclear as to what he showed in SL that he hasn't shown before. He didn't rebound especially well on D. I'll celebrate Javale's improvement when I see it against NBA bigs.

Keep in mind, the Wiz went 3-3 after the deadline, lost 15 in a row and then went 4-5 to close out the season. 7-23 over their last 30 games. That's a 19 win pace. So winning 33 would be a hell of an improvement.

After a rookie Westbrook and 2nd year Durant, their 3-5th leading scorers were 2nd year Jeff Green, Nenad Kristic and DJ White (!). Even now Jeff Green is merely a starting caliber player.

You are in for a pleasant surprise this season if those are your expectations. I think that's what has lots of people here disagreeing. Some read alot into that 16 game losing streak. I read more into the 5-4 finish.

Also, I know you know more than to say you didn't see any improvement from McGee in summer league. Sure, we need to see it against NBA bigs but he showed alot that he didn't have when he was averaging 13/8 with 3 blocks. Post moves, better defensive positioning (even if it's still not good), more of an understanding of the offense, etc.

[fishercob]

JoJo, think we're closer to Russell Westbroook''s rookie team than to Rose's. That team went 23-59 and got a comparable year out of Durant (20.6 PER) as to what I expect from Gil. They decent years out of Collison and Jeff Green and contributions from Krstic, Wilcox, Earl Watson, Kyle Weaver, and Sefolosha.

How can we call McGee's improvement a mirage? We can't even call it his improvement yet! He dominated summer league, thanks it large part to Wall. I'm unclear as to what he showed in SL that he hasn't shown before. He didn't rebound especially well on D. I'll celebrate Javale's improvement when I see it against NBA bigs.

Keep in mind, the Wiz went 3-3 after the deadline, lost 15 in a row and then went 4-5 to close out the season. 7-23 over their last 30 games. That's a 19 win pace. So winning 33 would be a hell of an improvement.

After a rookie Westbrook and 2nd year Durant, their 3-5th leading scorers were 2nd year Jeff Green, Nenad Kristic and DJ White (!). Even now Jeff Green is merely a starting caliber player.

You are in for a pleasant surprise this season if those are your expectations. I think that's what has lots of people here disagreeing. Some read alot into that 16 game losing streak. I read more into the 5-4 finish.

Also, I know you know more than to say you didn't see any improvement from McGee in summer league. Sure, we need to see it against NBA bigs but he showed alot that he didn't have when he was averaging 13/8 with 3 blocks. Post moves, better defensive positioning (even if it's still not good), more of an understanding of the offense, etc.

You're looking at OKC's ppg. In terms of total points, the order was Durant, Green, Westbrook, Collison, Watson, Kristic (who signed after the all-star break I believe). What's similar about that team and the Wiz, is a decent collection of talent who hasn't played together before. Your Bulls analogy team had been together for a bit. We've got basically a brand new team this year. There will be some growing pains. But like OKC did this year, I think the Wiz could be in for a big leap next season.

McGee showed us some stuff we haven't seen -- the hook shot, the behind the back move (which will get him benched) and some good face up stuyff. I'm pleased about it but put little stock in it. I need to see it against NBA bigs, and I need to see him not fouling out in 18 minutes of play.

[Induveca]

So basically we have two camps:

1. Dump Arenas for Vince Carter and get cap space and "flexibility", then cross your fingers we sign a "game changer" player as a free agent. And lose as much as possible, because after all if you don't win a championship it's not even worth trying. (I'll call this the LeBron/Just Give Up model). No need to see how Arenas plays alongside Wall. They might be so good that we can't tank and get another high pick. Ignore the fact we have tons of cap space regardless and can sign others even with Arenas.
2. Keep Arenas, see how he gels with Wall and an improved Blatche and try to win some games and field an entertaining/competitive team. Dumping everything for the likes of Batum/Gasol and a pie in the sky shot at Carmelo Anthony doesn't make sense. (I'll call this the compete as hard as possible model).

I just don't get #1. We just landed the first overall pick and everyone wants to dump his running mate before we even see them play together.

This "plan" everyone is talking about who supports the 1st argument is more ridiculous than the possibility than Wall/Arenas/Blatche play well together and make some noise. If Wall becomes the next Chris Paul, why can't he/Arenas/Blatche/McGee make it to the second round? Is that not good enough? Is the expectation of camp #1 to tank until we can immediately reach the finals?

It isn't a plan, it's an epic tank. If replacing Arenas with a Gasol/Batum type combo is your idea of winning a championship, I'm not sure what to say. Wall and Blatche aren't enough, there is always a need for a second star level player. We already have one and he's not destroying us financially.

If you want to complain about something, complain about signing Yi etc.......he could have been your Batum and still keep Arenas.

[LyricalRico]

1. Dump Arenas for Vince Carter and get cap space and "flexibility", then cross your fingers we sign a "game changer" player as a free agent. And lose as much as possible, because after all if you don't win a championship it's not even worth trying. (I'll call this the LeBron/Just Give Up model). No need to see how Arenas plays alongside Wall. They might be so good that we can't tank and get another high pick. Ignore the fact we have tons of cap space regardless and can sign others even with Arenas.

Complete misrepresentation.

[Induveca]

1. Dump Arenas for Vince Carter and get cap space and "flexibility", then cross your fingers we sign a "game changer" player as a free agent. And lose as much as possible, because after all if you don't win a championship it's not even worth trying. (I'll call this the LeBron/Just Give Up model). No need to see how Arenas plays alongside Wall. They might be so good that we can't tank and get another high pick. Ignore the fact we have tons of cap space regardless and can sign others even with Arenas.

Complete misrepresentation.

How is it? Can you explain what we achieve other than losing by dumping Arenas for scraps? Rico, seriously what do you hope to get? Anthony? Or is it the type of combo a la Gasol/Batum?

Please seriously tell me how this plan takes us to a championship, I don't see anything happening other than us losing even more for 2-3 more years and keeping the DC area fans in a state of eternal 20-25 win seasons? What's the harm in TRYING TO WIN? We can't keep dumping high salary players with the hope of scoring top 5 picks for 3 years, then magically being transported to a championship. If that's the case, we better dump Blatche too as having him on the squad will surely lead to a few more wins. Let's just play Booker and we'll be assured of a top 5 pick again.

I've watched this team since the early 90s when I was living in Washington, and I've had just a few years of watching winning basketball. I refuse to accept losing MORE will make us a better squad. It hasn't for 30 years..............there is no plan in your logic that I see other than "we're not winning a championship with Arenas". Really? And we are with a combo of Nicolas Batum and Marc Gasol? Even though they likely wouldn't sign with us regardless? They'll both be courted heavily by at least 6 teams.

[AceDegenerate]

RIco doesn't do a whole lot of explaining, just a lot of "Me, Too!!" ing.

[Induveca]

RIco doesn't do a whole lot of explaining, just a lot of "Me, Too!!" ing.

I respect everyone here, I truly do........but this is the first argument on this board which has me baffled and a bit perturbed.

The major disconnect I'm having is the "plan to win" from my respected yet dissenting Wiz fans, focuses on "cap flexibility" and building to "win a championship". The reference to Oklahoma City has been made numerous times, and that combined with signing a Carmelo Anthony leads us to the promise land.

Theoretically our Kevin Durant is Wall, and we just need to sign a SG or SF equivalent of Russell Westbrook and we're in the money? Why exactly is Arenas not that player? You expect to draft someone who is capable of putting up 42 point 15 assist games with a top 10 pick? And on top of that, sign Carmelo Anthony......and if not him two solid, yet average players with remaining cap space.

Anthony won't happen, and if he does it would be like going all in on one number in roulette and hitting it......I personally wouldn't be the future of my company or team in such a manner. It's reckless, irresponsible and disrespectful of a fanbase long mistreated.

Play the best players you have, don't trade your best talent for "cap space" when you don't need it and can acquire it later. Give it a shot, give Washington fans some excitement. A Wall/Arenas combo would be extremely entertaining and possibly even make the playoffs.

For those of you back in 2006 who don't remember, DC fans went CRAZY when we made the playoffs/second round. The city deserves that again. If you have a chance to deliver it, and still have a solid plan for the future.......you do it.

[LyricalRico]

Please. I've explained my position in the pages of this thread and in others, so won't waste more time on people who either aren't interested in listening or aren't willing to think outside the box.

In the end, it doesn't really matter. I fully expect Ted to pull the trigger if/when somebody does indeed offer expirings for Arenas. Until said time, I hope folks enjoy what little time Gil has left in DC.

[fishercob]

Ted was on Jim Rome today, via the DC Sports Bog:

Obviously our franchise player is Gilbert Arenas: he's been injured for a couple of years, and he was suspended last year. I've reached out to Gilbert and I find Gilbert to be a very authentic, warm, nice guy. And he's certainly a very talented player, and we're gonna be in it together. I have his back, and he's been working out really really hard over the summer.

"We will have a good professional relationship. He knows what we're trying to build and he wants to be a part of it. It's a great city, it's a great ban base, and I think we're gonna build a very very competitive team very quickly."

Then Rome asked whether Gilbert's role will need to change, and Leonsis repeated his contention that the Wizards will have one of the best backcourts in the NBA. He also said Gilbert's role will change for the better.

"I think John Wall will add years to Gilbert's career," he said. "He'll lug the ball up, he'll run. Gilbert is a great shooter, Gilbert goes hard to the rim....John has great physicality and off the chart basketball IQ, and great players want to play with great players, so I think this was a great thing for Gilbert Arenas and his career, and I also think that Gilbert understands that he has to perform and step up. The best way to re-bond with the fan base is to come in happy and healthy and be a really really highly functioning trusted teammate and be very very coachable. And my bet is Gilbert can be all of that."

Uh huh.

[Induveca]

Please. I've explained my position in the pages of this thread and in others, so won't waste more time on people who either aren't interested in listening or aren't willing to think outside the box.

In the end, it doesn't really matter. I fully expect Ted to pull the trigger if/when somebody does indeed offer expirings for Arenas. Until said time, I hope folks enjoy what little time Gil has left in DC.

You choose not to respond, possibly it was too logical?
Good players, try to win........

VS

There are better players we have a 5% chance of possibly get in the next 3 years.......and if monumental luck swings our way, we can win more than we could win now!

Sorry Rico, your argument doesn't hold water.........because you don't seem to have one here that can be supported by any rational logic.

[no D in Hibachi]

So Nate you want to keep Arenas? I´m a little confused on where you stand.

You can't be serious. I must have 50 posts in this thread. I think my position is pretty clear.

Wait, so are you telling me you want to keep Arenas, or do you want to trade him...

[JWizmentality]

Uh huh.

Yeah, Uh Huh.

[Induveca]

Ted was on Jim Rome today, via the DC Sports Bog:

Obviously our franchise player is Gilbert Arenas: he's been injured for a couple of years, and he was suspended last year. I've reached out to Gilbert and I find Gilbert to be a very authentic, warm, nice guy. And he's certainly a very talented player, and we're gonna be in it together. I have his back, and he's been working out really really hard over the summer.

"We will have a good professional relationship. He knows what we're trying to build and he wants to be a part of it. It's a great city, it's a great ban base, and I think we're gonna build a very very competitive team very quickly."

Then Rome asked whether Gilbert's role will need to change, and Leonsis repeated his contention that the Wizards will have one of the best backcourts in the NBA. He also said Gilbert's role will change for the better.

"I think John Wall will add years to Gilbert's career," he said. "He'll lug the ball up, he'll run. Gilbert is a great shooter, Gilbert goes hard to the rim....John has great physicality and off the chart basketball IQ, and great players want to play with great players, so I think this was a great thing for Gilbert Arenas and his career, and I also think that Gilbert understands that he has to perform and step up. The best way to re-bond with the fan base is to come in happy and healthy and be a really really highly functioning trusted teammate and be very very coachable. And my bet is Gilbert can be all of that."

Uh huh.

Leonsis is about as genuine as you can get. Those who have read his book or spent time around him know that. Arenas will be back in DC this year, he's gone too far out on a limb for the guy.

Made me a happy camper reading that.

[flash22]

The arenas situation is nothing like the ray allen Seattle situation. Allen brought back Seattle a #5 pick. If arenas was offered for the number #5 pick then you take cousins and run. But thats not the case. Even if we dump arenas for expirings who are we going to sign with that money? A bunch of 3rd tier players or an overpaid 2nd tier player.

[JonathanJoseph]

I'm going to agree wholeheartedly with Induveca on this thread. Ihear the argument for trading Arenas, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

And yeah, Ted Leonsis is as genuine as it gets and that article made it clear to me that Arenas will be in Washington next year at the bare minimum. I'm guessing thats 90% sure.

And this is the part that I liked the most:

and I think we're gonna build a very very competitive team very quickly."

I think Ted's expectations in the win column this season are close to mine.

[queridiculo]

I for one can't wait to see an Arenas/Wall backcourt, opposing guards will have their hands full trying to contain those two.

Based on fishercobs quote, can we finally kill this thread?