EG post Abe era started Nov 24, 2009 - Eval EG from then

[JonathanJoseph]

I disagree. I went move by move since the date to begin evaluation. I didn't bring up Abe Pollin, other people did but that's one heck of a GM you have there who can't sell a vision to his owner. Ernie Grunfeld has been the GM of the Wizards for seven years. During that time the team has won one first round playoff series. During that time the team is 46 games under .500, or an average of 34-35 wins a year. That is not the resume of a good GM and seven years is a pretty fair sample size. He is an average GM at best with the Wizards. I frankly don't care what he did as a GM prior to that. Seven years is ample opportunity to win more than one playoff series. So he doesn't get cut slack. He's judged by his record, just like everyone else.

OK. I Agree that a GM should be judged by his record. But, as part of that, don't you have to take into account injuries in looking at that? How many games did Arenas, Jamison, Butler and Haywood miss over the last 3 years due to injury? Is that EG's fault?

[JonathanJoseph]

This was NOT a rumor, it was reported by reputable journalist in the Washington Post and Yahoo Sports....and yes, MJ blinded by his pride and ego didn't want to help the desperate Washington GM.

Blatche was mentioned in trade talks, too, with league sources confirming that the team spoke with the Charlotte Bobcats about dealing him in exchange for point guard D.J. Augustin.

We don't know the details of the trade. When trades are first reported, important pieces are often left out. Maybe it was Blatche for Augustin plus a 1st rounder. We don't know. All I know is that Blatche for Augustin was so one-sided that it defies logic that MJ turned it down. There had to be more to the story.

Right. It doesn't really make sense. Even if Blatche had no upside and he was merely an average backup big who could play both 4 and 5, his $3M per year contract would make him far more valuable than Augustin, who is and remains a backup PG.

[Hoopalotta]

I dare say that a game thread would really hit the spot about now.

[AceDegenerate]

This was NOT a rumor, it was reported by reputable journalist in the Washington Post and Yahoo Sports....and yes, MJ blinded by his pride and ego didn't want to help the desperate Washington GM.

Blatche was mentioned in trade talks, too, with league sources confirming that the team spoke with the Charlotte Bobcats about dealing him in exchange for point guard D.J. Augustin.

We don't know the details of the trade. When trades are first reported, important pieces are often left out. Maybe it was Blatche for Augustin plus a 1st rounder. We don't know. All I know is that Blatche for Augustin was so one-sided that it defies logic that MJ turned it down. There had to be more to the story.

Well isn't this conveniently serving to your point. LEAGUE SOURCES CONFIRM, but yet There HAS TO BE MORE right.

HOW CONVENIENT.

Let's gloss over anything that makes my point look wrong, and only talk about what makes me look right!

O-K BUDDY!!

[AceDegenerate]

BTW Michael Jordan was never a BAD GM here.

He was under a DIRECT mandate by Abe Pollin to DRAFT Kwame Brown, TRADE Rip Hamilton, SIGN Bryon Russel, and to PLAY for the Team.

Wes Unseld was under a DIRECT mandate by Abe Pollin to TRADE Chris Webber, OVERPAY Juwan Howard.

You're all pathetic, and you can't erase history. Grunfeld is a PISS POOR Mediocre GM and time will tell with him & Ted, Grunfeld will not be here for the long haul. The man is bound to F up multiple more times in the next couple years.

Get EG's BALLS out of your mouthes OLD MEN.

Just because he's your age, doesn't make him right about everything.

[AceDegenerate]

The Jamison trade was brilliant. A flat out steal. This alone makes EG's performance worth at least a B even if all of his other moves fail. I'm still amazed that he dumped the final $29M of his contract and still got Thonton and the #29 pick out of it.

Please remove Ernie Grunfeld's Balls from your Mouth.

[closg00]

Thanks Ben for providing a template to discuss EG's actual moves post-Abe, Dat filled-in some things also. Waiting to give an overall grade, but here is my feedback.

1. Jamison trade-- B+, dumped his salary, received a pick.

A - EG finally taking advantage of a desperate GM AND getting a pick also.

2. Haywood/Butler/Desuckashawn deal-- C dumped Desuckashawn, Cuban has laughed at EG, basically saying he took EG to school on the deal

C- for the reasons you stated, it was criminal that Ernie didn't get a pick out of the deal.

3. Drafted John Wall--sorry you don't get a grade for luck or doing something that non-basketball fans would know to do.

Agree

4. Hinrich/17th pick deal--TBD--It depends upon Seraphin. I think he's a good risk at that point and the fact other teams were interested in him is not a bad thing. EG's infatuation with Hinrich is puzzling.

Agree, On Hinrich, EG is just spinning his deal just like he did when he traded for Miller and Foye.

5. Booker/23rd pick deal--TBD As others mentioned, Poindexter might have been a better target.

C- Where does Booker fit into an NBA rotation? Going into to the draft fixated on drafting Booker to the point of panic-trading looks like the wrong move.

6. Yi deal--C not as negative on this as some as the downside isn't too high, but nor do I think there's much upside either.

C - Not expecting much and not upset with the move.

7. Signed Hilton Armstrong-C Average move, average grade.

C - Agree

8. Signed Josh Howard-B Reasonable move, especially if he plays well he could be traded at the trade deadline to a contending team and/or keep his Bird rights in 2011 FA season.

B- Considering his injury-history and age, I wish we had ended-up with a SF prospect on draft night. We also paid generously for what could be a 1/2 season of his services. OTOH, a healthy Howard could be a nice fit alongside Wall if we make the 8th seed.

9. Drafted Hamady Ndiaye-TBD

B - At-least we have a draft and stash iron in the fire, he'll probably play in the D-League or overseas.

[nate33]

The Jamison trade was brilliant. A flat out steal. This alone makes EG's performance worth at least a B even if all of his other moves fail. I'm still amazed that he dumped the final $29M of his contract and still got Thonton and the #29 pick out of it.

Please remove Ernie Grunfeld's Balls from your Mouth.

Why don't you try to contribute something useful to this board before you criticize others. How does it feel to know that if you left this board, it would become a better place?

[Ruzious]

We don't know the details of the trade. When trades are first reported, important pieces are often left out. Maybe it was Blatche for Augustin plus a 1st rounder. We don't know. All I know is that Blatche for Augustin was so one-sided that it defies logic that MJ turned it down. There had to be more to the story.

Well isn't this conveniently serving to your point. LEAGUE SOURCES CONFIRM, but yet There HAS TO BE MORE right.

HOW CONVENIENT.

Let's gloss over anything that makes my point look wrong, and only talk about what makes me look right!

O-K BUDDY!!

He gave reasons for his opinion. It's called using logic. That's probably what tripped you up. I'm not sure I agree with him, but he gave valid reasons for his opinion. That's what makes for a good message board - as opposed to your resonse.

[hands11]

Closg

There was a list of things on page 1 and takes the moves into account with a little more detail.
When I get time I my go back and set it up with dates.

It isn't just who we moved but who we didn't keep. ie. Z or Gooden and why.

Not keep Z let up play McGee more minutes to evaluate and develop him plus keep our cap space.
Not keeping Gooden allowed Dray clear starting minutes and kept our cap space.

This also allowed us to tank while trying to win which got us the 4th/5th slot which in turn allowed us to get lucky and get the 1st pick.

[hands11]

Also look at the timing of dumping CB, Haywood and DSleezy.

Oct 27th - season starts
Nov 24th - Abe passed
Jan 6th - Gil suspended after he and Critter had guns in the locker Dec 24th
Feb 14th - Haywood, DSleez and CB traded to Dallas

Accounting for the actually time it takes to shop and make a deal happen, it looks pretty clear that EG was ready to blow this up and had a plan to do it when the time was right.

I doubt you make a decision like that in just 2 weeks or so. This had to be something EG had been thinking hard about for a while and given those dates I would guess he already had a good idea what he wanted to do once the timing was right.

So post Abe, it took EG how long to decide to blow this up.

Total Hard Number - Nov 25th till Feb 14th
Post Gil Dates - Jan 6th till Feb 14th
Post Gil accounting for shopping - Jan 6th till est Jan 24th maybe

Seems like that team was being held together for Abe more than anything cuz it didn't take EG very long to start taking action to blow it up.

[Bickerstaff]

The Jamison trade was brilliant. A flat out steal. This alone makes EG's performance worth at least a B even if all of his other moves fail. I'm still amazed that he dumped the final $29M of his contract and still got Thonton and the #29 pick out of it.

Please remove Ernie Grunfeld's Balls from your Mouth.

What have you ever accomplished? I dare say that whatever it is that you do, you're far worse at it than Ernie Grunfeld, who by all objective measures is at least decent at his extremely high-level job. It's so easy to go on a message board and type in all caps and act brave and pretend you know what you're talking about. Contribute something worthwhile and then perhaps it will mean something when you try to tear down others. Or be a f'ing man and find Ernie Grunfeld and say these things to his face.

[Bickerstaff]

OK. I Agree that a GM should be judged by his record. But, as part of that, don't you have to take into account injuries in looking at that? How many games did Arenas, Jamison, Butler and Haywood miss over the last 3 years due to injury? Is that EG's fault?

In all fairness, kind of. A better GM might have had a better contingency plan. The Wizards have had bad luck, but so have other teams that have managed to at least hang on to their respectability afterward.

[AceDegenerate]

The Jamison trade was brilliant. A flat out steal. This alone makes EG's performance worth at least a B even if all of his other moves fail. I'm still amazed that he dumped the final $29M of his contract and still got Thonton and the #29 pick out of it.

Please remove Ernie Grunfeld's Balls from your Mouth.

What have you ever accomplished? I dare say that whatever it is that you do, you're far worse at it than Ernie Grunfeld, who by all objective measures is at least decent at his extremely high-level job. It's so easy to go on a message board and type in all caps and act brave and pretend you know what you're talking about. Contribute something worthwhile and then perhaps it will mean something when you try to tear down others. Or be a f'ing man and find Ernie Grunfeld and say these things to his face.

You dare say is right, a Wizards forum is not the place to compare our tax statements. I'm sure I've accomplished well more than you or anyone else who chooses to judge me for the content of my Wizards posts, would like to believe.

[AceDegenerate]

The Jamison trade was brilliant. A flat out steal. This alone makes EG's performance worth at least a B even if all of his other moves fail. I'm still amazed that he dumped the final $29M of his contract and still got Thonton and the #29 pick out of it.

Please remove Ernie Grunfeld's Balls from your Mouth.

Why don't you try to contribute something useful to this board before you criticize others. How does it feel to know that if you left this board, it would become a better place?

This is funny, hasn't that always been the case though?

[AceDegenerate]

We don't know the details of the trade. When trades are first reported, important pieces are often left out. Maybe it was Blatche for Augustin plus a 1st rounder. We don't know. All I know is that Blatche for Augustin was so one-sided that it defies logic that MJ turned it down. There had to be more to the story.

Well isn't this conveniently serving to your point. LEAGUE SOURCES CONFIRM, but yet There HAS TO BE MORE right.

HOW CONVENIENT.

Let's gloss over anything that makes my point look wrong, and only talk about what makes me look right!

O-K BUDDY!!

He gave reasons for his opinion. It's called using logic. That's probably what tripped you up. I'm not sure I agree with him, but he gave valid reasons for his opinion. That's what makes for a good message board - as opposed to your resonse.

My response is what it is because people think it's okay to drag my name through the mud in random threads that have nothing to do with me, therefore it's become apparent to me that this behavior is going to be the norm here, and I have decided to participate.

Don't speak my name, especially if you don't want me to respond. Apparently it was applaudable that my support for Arenas be equated to his "balls in my mouth", why can I not equate similar support for Grunfeld in a similar fashion?

The whole League of Extraordinary Oldmen thing on this forum is tired, you can gloss over the abuse I take here and make me out to be the bad guy all you want, the proof is in the pudding. I came out in support of Public Enemy #1 here and I became as much.

[montestewart]

^
I recommend that "Balls out of your mouth" be abbreviated as the (sort of) acronym Boo-Yum.

"Take the Boo-Yum" can become some sort of code when we venture onto the General Board, separating friend from foe.

[hands11]

I dare say that a game thread would really hit the spot about now.

Is the schedule out yet? I was looking for it and all I saw was last years schedule.

[Benjammin]

I dare say that a game thread would really hit the spot about now.

Is the schedule out yet? I was looking for it and all I saw was last years schedule.

August 3rd some of the marquee games will be announced; the full schedule will be announced August 10th apparently.

[hands11]

I dare say that a game thread would really hit the spot about now.

Is the schedule out yet? I was looking for it and all I saw was last years schedule.

August 3rd some of the marquee games will be announced; the full schedule will be announced August 10th apparently.

Sweet. Thanks. Should make guestimating our record for the year a little easier once we actually know the schedule though I usually like to wait until just before the season starts to post my guess. That way you at least get to see them in preseason and have some idea of who is healthy.