Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good.

boomheadshot · Post #241 » by **boomheadshot** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:35 pm

Derrick Rose is good, there's no arguing that. The argument always seems to be how good exactly. Is he all-star worthy? Yes. Is he an elite point guard (top 5)? No, not yet. He can easily become one, and that should be pretty apparent, but most Bulls fans seem to be overrating him at this stage of his career because he has so much potential. Bulls fans like to think that he's leagues better than other young guards like Tyreke Evans and Russel Westbrook, but really they are on about the same level. You can argue that Rose is better than those guys, but there isn't much separating those players.

panthermark · Post #242 » by **panthermark** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:40 pm

Bomb_First wrote:Eric Snow was 6'3, which is big for a PG and he could handle guarding shooting guards. Im sorry but Rose is a homeless man's Iverson. Undersized SG that can score in bunches but can't defend. He will never be a true PG in this league.

WTF?!?!

Just wait until after this year to see how he plays with a "real" roster.
21-22 points and close to 8 dimes will be easy for him if we land a 3pt shooter at SG...along with Boozer at PF.

At that point, people would call him an "above average" playmaker and 'excellent" scorer...whatever that means....

Post #243 » by **Three34** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:41 pm

He's already a top 5 point guard. Him, Paul, Nash, Deron, Rondo. Put them in whichever order you like, but there's your 5. Don't say Billups.

panthermark · Post #244 » by **panthermark** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:43 pm

Thugonomics wrote:
Roses are Red wrote:
Bomb_First wrote:Eric Snow was 6'3, which is big for a PG and he could handle guarding shooting guards. Im sorry but Rose is a homeless man's Iverson. Undersized SG that can score in bunches but can't defend. He will never be a true PG in this league.

negative 100% Derrick Rose=Allen Iverson

that Eric Snow argument made my week, and its only Monday! LOOOOOOOOOOLLOOOOL Eric Snow! I have never heard anyone use an Eric Snow analogy for a good player in the league...I wonder why

lmfaooo damn i didnt read every page but i can imagine the bulls homers overrating the hell out of Rose..damn rose is on iversons level? lmao smh

You should really try reading....
Jumping to conclusions for the loss...

boomheadshot · Post #245 » by **boomheadshot** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:45 pm

Actually you're right, he is top five. I guess I miscounted in my head when I was thinking of all the top guards. His spot is in danger though and I think there are a few players that can pass him in a couple years if Rose doesn't continue to improve.

Legendary 33 · Post #246 » by **Legendary 33** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:51 pm

boomheadshot wrote:Actually you're right, he is top five. I guess I miscounted in my head when I was thinking of all the top guards. His spot is in danger though and I think there are a few players that can pass him in a couple years if Rose doesn't continue to improve.

If he does continue to improve, I don't think his spot is in danger by any means

Post #247 » by **Rerisen** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:51 pm

boomheadshot wrote: His spot is in danger though and I think there are a few players that can pass him in a couple years if Rose doesn't continue to improve.

I don't think him not improving is a big danger considering he improved every single month of last season, let alone having a whole year to do so.

-Illmatic- · Post #248 » by **-Illmatic-** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:51 pm

boomheadshot wrote:Actually you're right, he is top five. I guess I miscounted in my head when I was thinking of all the top guards. His spot is in danger though and I think there are a few players that can pass him in a couple years if Rose doesn't continue to improve.

How is his spot in danger? He is going into his 3rd year in the league where most stars make there big jump. Wall, Curry, Jennings, and Westbrook are all a level under him. All of them are young so what is your basis that someone will suddenly jump Rose?

Concept Coop · Post #249 » by **Concept Coop** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:52 pm

boomheadshot wrote:Actually you're right, he is top five. I guess I miscounted in my head when I was thinking of all the top guards. His spot is in danger though and I think there are a few players that can pass him in a couple years if Rose doesn't continue to improve.

Very silly comment. He is 21 years old with a great work ethic, physical gifts to grow into, and track record of improvement (already!). He will be top 5 for years and years. IF (Big IF) players like Wall do pass him, Rose will have already passed players like Nash and Rondo by then. Thus, keeping him top 5.

panthermark · Post #250 » by **panthermark** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:53 pm

boomheadshot wrote:Actually you're right, he is top five. I guess I miscounted in my head when I was thinking of all the top guards. His spot is in danger though and I think there are a few players that can pass him in a couple years if Rose doesn't continue to improve.

That is true for anyone...
The guy is only in his 2nd year and made a huge improvement from year 1 (ROY) to year 2 (All-Star) by going from a guy that can't shoot a lick to becoming one of the best mid-range shooters in the game.

It is amazing how far is shot has come. 50% from 10-15 feet, 44% from 16-23 feet. The kid can shoot...

This off-season he has put in major work on his three-point shooting.
Add a SG...that can actucally knock down threes...(Rudy please)
Add Boozer....who can actually hit a jumper beyond 8 feet...(Love Taj...but he has no range)

And that should get Rose close to 2 more dimes a game....just from pick and pops...

Once his shooting is dialed in, the next step is defense and getting to the line more.

boomheadshot · Post #251 » by **boomheadshot** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 8:57 pm

Haha I like how all of you responded to my post at the exact same time. I don't think you can always count on players to improve significantly just because they're young. I also don't consider guys like Jennings and Westbrook to be a level under Rose. Rose is better for sure, but not by a whole lot. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that there are other guards in the league that could potentially become better than Rose. There's no telling how much every young guard will improve, as I think many of them have a lot of potential.

Concept Coop · Post #252 » by **Concept Coop** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:02 pm

boomheadshot wrote:Haha I like how all of you responded to my post at the exact same time. I don't think you can always count on players to improve significantly just because they're young. I also don't consider guys like Jennings and Westbrook to be a level under Rose. Rose is better for sure, but not by a whole lot. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that there are other guards in the league that could potentially become better than Rose. There's no telling how much every young guard will improve, as I think many of them have a lot of potential.

Rose is better and around the same age right now. Why on earth would anyone predict that they (Westbrook/Jennings, and so on) will pass him? Especially Jennings. If he and Rose maxed out their talents, Rose would be worlds better, just based on his physical attributes.

barnett114 · Post #253 » by **barnett114** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:04 pm

What did Derrick Rose do to people Delonte ya moms, took ya girl or **** your sister? Damn.

boomheadshot · Post #254 » by **boomheadshot** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:06 pm

That's a big if and an unreasonable hypothetical. You can't judge by athletic ability alone. Rondo is much more physically gifted than Nash, but I don't think anyone would argue that Rondo is better. Nash was a late bloomer as well.

Legendary 33 · Post #255 » by **Legendary 33** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:07 pm

boomheadshot wrote:Haha I like how all of you responded to my post at the exact same time. I don't think you can always count on players to improve significantly just because they're young. I also don't consider guys like Jennings and Westbrook to be a level under Rose. Rose is better for sure, but not by a whole lot. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that there are other guards in the league that could potentially become better than Rose. There's no telling how much every young guard will improve, as I think many of them have a lot of potential.

Jennings & Westbrook aren't on the same level as Rose.

boomheadshot · Post #256 » by **boomheadshot** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:09 pm

You want to explain to me why, Legendary 33? Because they didn't make the all-star game?

Legendary 33 · Post #257 » by **Legendary 33** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:09 pm

boomheadshot wrote:That's a big if and an unreasonable hypothetical. You can't judge by athletic ability alone. Rondo is much more physically gifted than Nash, but I don't think anyone would argue that Rondo is better. Nash was late bloomer as well.

We're not talking about athletic ability. Rose is a far more superior scorer and shooter than Jennings/Westbrook. He's not as good of a defender as either, but his athleticism gives him the potential to narrow that gap in the next few years.

Rose, post ankle-injury, is a 23 6 and 4 player with a PER of 22 and a TS% of over .560. It's a shame, because he refused to sit out early in the season with his injury, which really flukes his numbers..sigh

Post #258 » by **Rerisen** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:09 pm

Westbrook has similar athleticism but I think with being on Durant's team, he is going to be kind of pigeon holed into the same role he is in right now for a while.

Rose, ready or not, now has a whole team at his command. Boozer is a great option, but he won't control the ball all game. Rose will.

Last year with having such a limited offense around him, might end up good for Rose in the long run. He had no choice but to take on the alpha scorer role, and this should prepare him for bigger and better things and to accomplish them easier now that he does have a better team.

Jennings is simply going to have to get bigger and stronger or a hell of a lot more crafty. Because his upside will be forever limited if he his not a real threat to finish inside.

Legendary 33 · Post #259 » by **Legendary 33** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:11 pm

boomheadshot wrote:You want to explain to me why, Legendary 33? Because they didn't make the all-star game?

No. Because Westbrook and Jennings are both sub-par offensive players. Rose offensively blows them both away with his scoring efficiency and shooting %. Rose also has far more potential, despite already being better

Concept Coop · Post #260 » by **Concept Coop** » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:11 pm

boomheadshot wrote:That's a big if and an unreasonable hypothetical. You can't judge by athletic ability alone. Rondo is much more physically gifted than Nash, but I don't think anyone would argue that Rondo is better. Nash was late bloomer as well.

It actually is not a hypothecial, in that sense. I established the fact that they both max out their talents. In other words, are both as talented as they can be, around the same level. Rose is bigger, stronger, faster, and more explosive. Thus, he would be the better player.

So you can't base it solely on physical talent. But when two players are close in talent, physical gifts can put one over the edge. And honestly, right now, they are not too close in talent.