Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good.

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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#281 » by Jvaughn » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:44 pm

boomheadshot wrote:Haha I like how all of you responded to my post at the exact same time. I don't think you can always count on players to improve significantly just because they're young. I also don't consider guys like Jennings and Westbrook to be a level under Rose. Rose is better for sure, but not by a whole lot. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that there are other guards in the league that could potentially become better than Rose. There's no telling how much every young guard will improve, as I think many of them have a lot of potential.


You already admitted he's top 5. You may not agree, but he is pretty comfortably there. Under that are players on a different tier. Westbrook is a good player, but he can't be counted on to consistently take over a game. I like his potential though. He may slide into the top 5 soon, but it won't be by knocking Rose out. Jennings has potential, but he is not on Rose's level. Not a better consistent scorer, not a better distributor, and doesn't have better physical tools. He edges Rose on 3pt shooting and marginally on defense. The other PG's from the last draft class just aren't there. They are good players on bad teams.

People seem to forget that Rose is only a 2nd year player. There's no reason to think that he won't continue to improve as those younger guys do. He passed the sophomore slump season with great improvement and is heading into his third year (where players make big jumps) with a much improved team. If anything he'll pull farther away from those players in the tier below him.
spearsy23 wrote:Kobe is a low percentage chucker just like Jennings, he's just better at it.


teamCHItown wrote:Now we have threads on what violent felons think of our Bulls. Great. Next up, OJ Simpson's take on a possible Taj Gibson extension.
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#282 » by tcduke » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:45 pm

DanielBoone wrote:
Concept Coop wrote:
DanielBoone wrote:still have yet to see any real proof that Rose is better than Arenas, glad to see all the Bulls homers ignored the post :lol: . better scorer, better distributor on better teams.

His style of play is not built for playoff success. During the 3 seasons he was an elite player, they won exactly one playoff series, in the pathetic EC. He is not a winner.


yeah except thats more than Rose has ever done. And he averaged 34 6 and 5 in the playoffs one year. they just always ran into sick teams. Theres no actual concrete reasoning that anyone can put Rose over Arenas except homerism


http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... agi01.html
From 2007 up until today Arenas hasn't even played a half of a full NBA season. We're not basing comparisons on how someone performed years ago.
And he's not even a point guard anymore.
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#283 » by Legendary 33 » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:48 pm

People forget that Rose is still really raw.

If you're a top 5 point guard without being:

1) A great distributor
2) A great defender
3) A great free-throw shooter
4) Great at getting to the free-throw line often

that means your pretty damn good. If Rose fixes even half of these issues, he'll be top 3, and if (lord behold) he fixes all these issues, he'll be the best point guard in the league in his prime.
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#284 » by Jvaughn » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:49 pm

Legendary 33 wrote:
Jvaughn wrote:
Legendary 33 wrote:I somehow feel that if Rose averaged 8 assists he'd magically become a "true point guard" overnight.

What's this obsession with point guards needing to average a ton of assists? The Bulls had multiple play-makers last season. Rose didn't need to set people up all game; instead, he played a role he was asked to play (1st option scorer) and did it marvelously. Billups has never averaged a ton of assists in a season, but he's a great floor general. Rose does the same thing, though not as well.


I don't. The haters would say that the assists are now an empty stat. Claiming that Rose only passes when he gets in trouble. Rose could average 25/10/5, and there would still be haters claiming that he isn't actually a PG or a good player.


Next season, if/when Rose averages 9 assists a game, I can imagine people's reaction : "ZOMG Marbury averaged 9 assists a game too! Rose iz all athleticism! Goran Dragic and Brandon Jennings both have more skillz!!"


Ah fan of my new sig? lol

And yeah that will be the argument. For those that are obvious Rose haters, there's nothing you can do to change their opinion. They have no basis, and no arguments to support their opinions. I just choose to put them on the ignore list now. Just angers me to read their crap.
spearsy23 wrote:Kobe is a low percentage chucker just like Jennings, he's just better at it.


teamCHItown wrote:Now we have threads on what violent felons think of our Bulls. Great. Next up, OJ Simpson's take on a possible Taj Gibson extension.
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#285 » by Concept Coop » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:51 pm

DanielBoone wrote:
Concept Coop wrote:
DanielBoone wrote:still have yet to see any real proof that Rose is better than Arenas, glad to see all the Bulls homers ignored the post :lol: . better scorer, better distributor on better teams.

His style of play is not built for playoff success. During the 3 seasons he was an elite player, they won exactly one playoff series, in the pathetic EC. He is not a winner.


yeah except thats more than Rose has ever done. And he averaged 34 6 and 5 in the playoffs one year. they just always ran into sick teams. Theres no actual concrete reasoning that anyone can put Rose over Arenas except homerism

Rose has only played two seasons. Lets compare apples to apples and see what Gilbert did in his first two seasons.

If Gilbert was where he was during that run, he would be a better basketball player than Rose, right now. Having said that, I think Rose could equal a DWill as early as this season - who I think is better than Gilbert ever was.
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#286 » by Bucksfans1and2 » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:52 pm

I'm honestly convince Ortho Stice is special. Goran Dragic? really?
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#287 » by Jvaughn » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:59 pm

Bucksfans1and2 wrote:I'm honestly convince Ortho Stice is special. Goran Dragic? really?


Not quite the word I'd use. lol

I'll debate Rose with you Bucks fans, because you're actually using Brandon Jennings as a comparison. I don't agree with the comparison, but that's a completely different debate. It's still a much better argument than Goran Dragic. You can tell he's just a Rose hater, and nothing will change it.
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#288 » by panthermark » Mon Aug 2, 2010 9:59 pm

DanielBoone wrote:
yeah except thats more than Rose has ever done. And he averaged 34 6 and 5 in the playoffs one year. they just always ran into sick teams. Theres no actual concrete reasoning that anyone can put Rose over Arenas except homerism


Are you serious....
Are you comparing the Rose of today....to what Gilbert Arenas was several years ago?

Dude, put the Haterarde down....

You might as well start a T-Mac vs Durrant thread....and somehow claim that Durrant isn't as good as T-Mac is RIGHT NOW because T-MAC was awesome 5 YEARS ago....
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#289 » by redshortz » Mon Aug 2, 2010 10:22 pm

Honestly,

To the Bulls fans, you guys have one of the youngest most gifted talents in the league. I put Rose and Westbrook at the same level right now. He is a large-sized, lightning quick PG who can score and dish. All that garbage talk about sliding him to the SG is just ridiculous... Magic was tall too, did they slide him over? He's 21 and only going to get better... and now that Chicago brought in some more talent, him and Boozer are going to go to WORK on teams next year.

People hating on Rose, are proving to me that they don't really watch basketball and are basing his talent level solely on the Bulls success in the playoffs... which is stupid. You idiots will be eating your words soon enough, and it will be the same haters hating now... who will be saying "I knew Rose was sick when he first got in the league" type talks in a couple years when watching him at the ASG... blind a$$ mofos

also, SMH at how many times I saw Eric Snow's name in this thread! Say NO to drugs.
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#290 » by DanielBoone » Mon Aug 2, 2010 11:24 pm

so i left for a while and came back and my responses to "prove Rose is a better point guard than Gilbert" were:

off court issues

and

comparing gilbert to rose is like comparing "current tmac to durant" or something like that

RealGM....youre better than that. come on.

oh and some people saying its not fair to compare arenas to rose (in terms of who the current better player is) because rose has only played 2 years, so I should compare him to Gilberts first 2 years.

hypocritical AND stupid at the same time! way to go!
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#291 » by tcduke » Mon Aug 2, 2010 11:33 pm

DanielBoone wrote:so i left for a while and came back and my responses to "prove Rose is a better point guard than Gilbert" were:

off court issues

and

comparing gilbert to rose is like comparing "current tmac to durant" or something like that

RealGM....youre better than that. come on.

oh and some people saying its not fair to compare arenas to rose (in terms of who the current better player is) because rose has only played 2 years, so I should compare him to Gilberts first 2 years.

hypocritical AND stupid at the same time! way to go!


So instead of trying to refute the points made you just say "RealGM....youre better than that. come on."
You're asking people to compare current Rose with Arenas of 3 years ago. That's an idiotic comparison and it's being ignored for a reason.
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#292 » by DanielBoone » Mon Aug 2, 2010 11:38 pm

tcduke wrote:
DanielBoone wrote:so i left for a while and came back and my responses to "prove Rose is a better point guard than Gilbert" were:

off court issues

and

comparing gilbert to rose is like comparing "current tmac to durant" or something like that

RealGM....youre better than that. come on.

oh and some people saying its not fair to compare arenas to rose (in terms of who the current better player is) because rose has only played 2 years, so I should compare him to Gilberts first 2 years.

hypocritical AND stupid at the same time! way to go!


So instead of trying to refute the points made you just say "RealGM....youre better than that. come on."
You're asking people to compare current Rose with Arenas of 3 years ago. That's an idiotic comparison and it's being ignored for a reason.


no I'm not.
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#293 » by tcduke » Mon Aug 2, 2010 11:42 pm

DanielBoone wrote:still have yet to see any real proof that Rose is better than Arenas, glad to see all the Bulls homers ignored the post :lol: . better scorer, better distributor on better teams.


DanielBoone wrote:nobody in this thread has put him above Rose in their listing of best PGs and nobody cant give a reason why. other than "lulz brings gunz to teh loker roomz" im talking about on the court


DanielBoone wrote:no I'm not.


He hasn't played anything close to a full season for 3 years, dude. Yes you are.
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#294 » by DanielBoone » Mon Aug 2, 2010 11:45 pm

even last year he was a better scorer and distributor than Rose.
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#295 » by stacey_is_king » Tue Aug 3, 2010 12:23 am

DanielBoone wrote:even last year he was a better scorer and distributor than Rose.

More points and more assists doesn't = better scorer and distributor =/ You don't know what you're talking about.
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#296 » by Bergy » Tue Aug 3, 2010 12:30 am

hey, remember the last time arenas shot over 45%?
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#297 » by StClairBandit » Tue Aug 3, 2010 12:41 am

watch basketball not stats
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#298 » by blueNorange » Tue Aug 3, 2010 12:44 am

rose isn't a point guard, he's a scoring guard ... he needs to attack the rim more. rose going to the line 500 times a year should be the 'at worst' scenario with him and his athletiscm, speed, power, and first step
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#299 » by jax98 » Tue Aug 3, 2010 12:46 am

blueNorange wrote:rose isn't a point guard, he's a scoring guard ... he needs to attack the rim more. rose going to the line 500 times a year should be the 'at worst' scenario with him and his athletiscm, speed, power, and first step


Actually, he's a scoring point guard. He leads his team, and passes the ball constantly. Not his fault he hasn't had a lot of offensive talent around him.
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Re: Prove to me Derrick Rose is Good. 

Post#300 » by blueNorange » Tue Aug 3, 2010 12:47 am

eh i just don't see 'true' point guard in him ... to me a point guard is a guy who gets teammates easy and uncontested shots. not driving and kicking it out ... a monkey could do that as well as you and i. i pass the ball and someone makes a jumpshot, i get an assist.

rose had a 2.2 a/t ratio this past year which is mediocre

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