Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[Ruzious]

What problems would Melo to DC even solve? Scoring is not going to be our issue, and he's not a dominant two-way big. It would create a lot of hype and expectations and sell a ton of jerseys, but it would be a mis-allocation of resources and may get us no closer to contention.

We go after him because he's a legitimately great player, and we need to add one of those to compete for a championship.

Also, that trade would not increase the payroll.

[Ruzious]

What specific trade are you suggesting, Ruzious?

Arenas + Howard total $21.7M in outgoing salary. Melo is $17.1M. It doesn't quite fit under the 125% Exemption. And Denver doesn't have much in the way of "filler" contracts.

I suppose it works with Thornton. Arenas + Thornton + 2011 1st for Melo? That's not such a bad deal all around assuming Arenas can revert to his former glory. I don't think Denver does it now, but maybe they would after watching Arenas play well for 20 games or so.

If we were assuming that, then why in the name of god would we trade him?

Me and pretty much every basketball fan who's not a Wizards fan believes that's never going to happen, and he's never going to be a great player again. He can, however, build up his value by playing well.

[Ruzious]

Neither Arenas nor Melo are two-way players, and I'd rather have baskets at 3:00 AM in my locker room than smiley face while down by 30.

If Arenas is back to 2007 form, it's a lateral move at best.

Melo is certainly capable of being more than adequate defensively in the playoffs - against the best competition. Arenas, imo, is nowhere near capable even against mediocre competition.

The 2006-2007 season was the last full season for Arenas - 4 seasons ago. There's no reason to expect him to regain that form.

[Silvie Lysandra]

If he's not back to 2007 form then why the hell would the Nuggets trade Melo for him? And Arenas sucks defensively, Melo is average, or above-average when he tries hard, which isn't often. It's a fairly big difference, but only enough to make up for the fact that Arenas at his best is more efficient and has a history of making other players better (as opposed to Melo who couldn't get out of the first round without Billups leading the team)

[Ruzious]

If he's not back to 2007 form then why the hell would the Nuggets trade Melo for him? And Arenas sucks defensively, Melo is average, or above-average when he tries hard, which isn't often. It's a fairly big difference, but only enough to make up for the fact that Arenas at his best is more efficient and has a history of making other players better (as opposed to Melo who couldn't get out of the first round without Billups leading the team)

Because Gil can possibly be a very good player - not a great player - and the Nuggets are not in a position of strength in trading Melo.

Melo is a great player. Gil can be a very good player. To be a championship contender, the Wiz need to get a great player, imo.

[LyricalRico]

Neither Arenas nor Melo are two-way players, and I'd rather have baskets at 3:00 AM in my locker room than smiley face while down by 30.

If Arenas is back to 2007 form, it's a lateral move at best.

Melo is certainly capable of being more than adequate defensively in the playoffs - against the best competition. Arenas, imo, is nowhere near capable even against mediocre competition.

Agreed. Add in the facts that Melo is younger, has no major injury history, and is actually the correct size for his position and dealing Arenas+assets for him is a no-brainer. And that's regardless of how much of his former self Gil reclaims. Gil at 100% is still a lesser player than Carmelo Anthony.

As for why Denver might entertain this, this idea is 100% predicated on Denver not wanting to lose Melo for nothing. I questioned their interest myself in an earlier post because there's really no direction for the Nuggets to go after dealing Melo other than to rebuild. Taking on an $80M contract goes in the opposite direction. But if they thought they could get something for Billups (maybe a center) and also retain Nene at PF, then maybe that is a better option than losing Melo for nothing.

Obviously it's a long shot and a number of other teams can and would offer packages that included better young prospects and contracts that were much more financially palatable. But it's still interesting to discuss IMO.

[fishercob]

What problems would Melo to DC even solve? Scoring is not going to be our issue, and he's not a dominant two-way big. It would create a lot of hype and expectations and sell a ton of jerseys, but it would be a mis-allocation of resources and may get us no closer to contention.

We go after him because he's a legitimately great player, and we need to add one of those to compete for a championship.

Also, that trade would not increase the payroll.

I question Melo's "legitimate greatness." He not very efficient for a volume scorer and he doesn't stand out on D. As soon as he signs that 3 yr/$65M extension, he's going to be overpaid. It's much wiser to go after FA's in 2012 under the new CBA.

More to the point, as CR alludes to, the only way Denver would consider such a deal is if Gilbert demonstrates that he's basically all the way back to his peak. And if that's the case, the trade is pointless.

[Silvie Lysandra]

Melo is a great player. Gil can be a very good player. To be a championship contender, the Wiz need to get a great player, imo.

2007 Gil is a great player, and imo, better than Melo. The problem is that we've let perceptions of what he is cloud what he was then, which was arguably the best scorer in the NBA, and a player who consistently made his team better on offense.

For whatever reason, we put too much blame on him for the team's poor defense and mediocre season records - yet the whole team was bad defensively, and by that I mean every single player not named Brendan Haywood.

Is Nash any less of a superstar because he was a poor individual defender? People generally considered Iverson a superstar and he was a poor individual defender (and a lot less efficient to boot).

The fact is, a 2007-level Arenas is a better scorer than Melo, is generally less ball-dominant than Melo while being a better scorer, makes his teammates better than Melo does, and is even posting better PER numbers despite an added 50 games where he was playing on one leg.

Again, at best a back-to-form Arenas being traded for Melo is a lateral move, which becomes a negative move if we're trading assets. And if he's not back to that form, then there's no way that Denver takes it.

[Severn Hoos]

Melo, Shmelo, whatever....

The real story is Xavier Henry. I'm utterly dumbfounded that Memphis is looking to play hardball on the 120% scale issue with Henry. It may not be as bad as what Pollin did with Juwan Howard, but it's even dumber, because of the way the rules are written, and because EVERYONE signs their 1st rounders for the 120% number. It's like they're going out of their way to alienate him...

So if they really do entertain the idea of trading Henry, should the Wiz get involved, and what should they offer? I'd definitely offer a future 1st (probably top 10 or 12 protected next year, sliding scale after that) and something else (Nick Young?). I'd love to see him as the third Guard backing up Arenas, and playing some SF with Arenas & Wall. And if he develops into a true starter at SG, could make dealing Gil down the road a ways a little easier.

There's no way the Grizz are that stupid, though? Right?......Right?

[fishercob]

I don't watch much college ball anymore so I really have no informed opinion on how good Henry be. But if he projects to as good as say, Rip Hamilton or Dan Majerle, I'd give up a lotto-protected first and Young in a hot second.

[Wizardspride]

Melo, Shmelo, whatever....

The real story is Xavier Henry. I'm utterly dumbfounded that Memphis is looking to play hardball on the 120% scale issue with Henry. It may not be as bad as what Pollin did with Juwan Howard, but it's even dumber, because of the way the rules are written, and because EVERYONE signs their 1st rounders for the 120% number. It's like they're going out of their way to alienate him...

So if they really do entertain the idea of trading Henry, should the Wiz get involved, and what should they offer? I'd definitely offer a future 1st (probably top 10 or 12 protected next year, sliding scale after that) and something else (Nick Young?). I'd love to see him as the third Guard backing up Arenas, and playing some SF with Arenas & Wall. And if he develops into a true starter at SG, could make dealing Gil down the road a ways a little easier.

+1

[Ruzious]

Melo, Shmelo, whatever....

The real story is Xavier Henry. I'm utterly dumbfounded that Memphis is looking to play hardball on the 120% scale issue with Henry. It may not be as bad as what Pollin did with Juwan Howard, but it's even dumber, because of the way the rules are written, and because EVERYONE signs their 1st rounders for the 120% number. It's like they're going out of their way to alienate him...

So if they really do entertain the idea of trading Henry, should the Wiz get involved, and what should they offer? I'd definitely offer a future 1st (probably top 10 or 12 protected next year, sliding scale after that) and something else (Nick Young?). I'd love to see him as the third Guard backing up Arenas, and playing some SF with Arenas & Wall. And if he develops into a true starter at SG, could make dealing Gil down the road a ways a little easier.

There's no way the Grizz are that stupid, though? Right?......Right?

Just bizarre - the way they've handled him. I don't know what they're doing, but yes, I'd make them a low ball offer - top 12 protected 1st - take it or leave it.

[verbal8]

Melo, Shmelo, whatever....

The real story is Xavier Henry. I'm utterly dumbfounded that Memphis is looking to play hardball on the 120% scale issue with Henry. It may not be as bad as what Pollin did with Juwan Howard, but it's even dumber, because of the way the rules are written, and because EVERYONE signs their 1st rounders for the 120% number. It's like they're going out of their way to alienate him...

I was looking at the Grizzlies moves because I recall them making some head scratching deals.

Look how they got the pick for Xavier Henry

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MEM/2009_transactions.html

December 10, 2008

As part of a 3-team trade, the Memphis Grizzlies traded Javaris Crittenton to the Washington Wizards; the Memphis Grizzlies traded a future 2nd round draft pick to the New Orleans Hornets; the New Orleans Hornets traded Mike James to the Washington Wizards; the Washington Wizards traded a 2010 1st round draft pick (Xavier Henry) to the Memphis Grizzlies; and the Washington Wizards traded Antonio Daniels to the New Orleans Hornets.

[Ruzious]

Neither Arenas nor Melo are two-way players, and I'd rather have baskets at 3:00 AM in my locker room than smiley face while down by 30.

If Arenas is back to 2007 form, it's a lateral move at best.

Melo is certainly capable of being more than adequate defensively in the playoffs - against the best competition. Arenas, imo, is nowhere near capable even against mediocre competition.

Agreed. Add in the facts that Melo is younger, has no major injury history, and is actually the correct size for his position and dealing Arenas+assets for him is a no-brainer. And that's regardless of how much of his former self Gil reclaims. Gil at 100% is still a lesser player than Carmelo Anthony.

As for why Denver might entertain this, this idea is 100% predicated on Denver not wanting to lose Melo for nothing. I questioned their interest myself in an earlier post because there's really no direction for the Nuggets to go after dealing Melo other than to rebuild. Taking on an $80M contract goes in the opposite direction. But if they thought they could get something for Billups (maybe a center) and also retain Nene at PF, then maybe that is a better option than losing Melo for nothing.

Obviously it's a long shot and a number of other teams can and would offer packages that included better young prospects and contracts that were much more financially palatable. But it's still interesting to discuss IMO.

Definitely a long shot - but worth pursuing. Notice on the Wiretap, they're saying NY doesn't have the assets to trade for him. At some point before the trade deadline, Denver's going to almost have to accept the best offer they get - I would think.

Chaos, the 2006/2007 season is ancient history.

Fish, Denver takes the best the best offer they get - unless you know something I don't. We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether Melo is great. He's not Lebron, Wade, Kobe, or Durant, but I think he's probably at or near the top of the next level of wing players.

[LyricalRico]

Definitely a long shot - but worth pursuing. Notice on the Wiretap, they're saying NY doesn't have the assets to trade for him. At some point before the trade deadline, Denver's going to almost have to accept the best offer they get - I would think.

And even if Melo goes somewhere other than DC, that huge domino falling is going to make some serious ripples in the NBA pond. We could then see other Gilbert trade scenarios pop up as a result.

[Dat2U]

Melo, Shmelo, whatever....

The real story is Xavier Henry. I'm utterly dumbfounded that Memphis is looking to play hardball on the 120% scale issue with Henry. It may not be as bad as what Pollin did with Juwan Howard, but it's even dumber, because of the way the rules are written, and because EVERYONE signs their 1st rounders for the 120% number. It's like they're going out of their way to alienate him...

So if they really do entertain the idea of trading Henry, should the Wiz get involved, and what should they offer? I'd definitely offer a future 1st (probably top 10 or 12 protected next year, sliding scale after that) and something else (Nick Young?). I'd love to see him as the third Guard backing up Arenas, and playing some SF with Arenas & Wall. And if he develops into a true starter at SG, could make dealing Gil down the road a ways a little easier.

There's no way the Grizz are that stupid, though? Right?......Right?

Yes the Grizz are that stupid. Well, their owner Michael Heisley is that stupid since he's the one making all of personnel decisions it seems. A top 12 protected pick for Henry makes a ton of sense. But I don't think anyone wants Nick Young. Do we have any remaining cap room just to take on Henry's rookie deal?

[nate33]

Do we have any remaining cap room just to take on Henry's rookie deal?

Yes.

[willbcocks]

Verbal: The pick the wiz had did not turn out to be henry. It would have been a 1st round pick if the Grizz had made the playoffs (last year being the final year it had the chance of becoming a 1st), but they missed the playoffs, so it turned into 2 second round picks.

[sfam]

Melo, Shmelo, whatever....

The real story is Xavier Henry. I'm utterly dumbfounded that Memphis is looking to play hardball on the 120% scale issue with Henry. It may not be as bad as what Pollin did with Juwan Howard, but it's even dumber, because of the way the rules are written, and because EVERYONE signs their 1st rounders for the 120% number. It's like they're going out of their way to alienate him...

So if they really do entertain the idea of trading Henry, should the Wiz get involved, and what should they offer? I'd definitely offer a future 1st (probably top 10 or 12 protected next year, sliding scale after that) and something else (Nick Young?). I'd love to see him as the third Guard backing up Arenas, and playing some SF with Arenas & Wall. And if he develops into a true starter at SG, could make dealing Gil down the road a ways a little easier.

There's no way the Grizz are that stupid, though? Right?......Right?

Yes the Grizz are that stupid. Well, their owner Michael Heisley is that stupid since he's the one making all of personnel decisions it seems. A top 12 protected pick for Henry makes a ton of sense. But I don't think anyone wants Nick Young. Do we have any remaining cap room just to take on Henry's rookie deal?

That'd be great if we could swoop in and grab Henry. I think the chances are fairly slim, but would LOVE it if that happened.

And I agree that nobody wants Nick Young. I don't want him either.

[verbal8]

And I agree that nobody wants Nick Young. I don't want him either.

While Nick Young is disappointing, I think he has trade value. I think a team having an injury to their starting SG, could be very interested in adding Nick Young. While there are serious holes in his game he can shoot, score and defend well.