John Wall Vs.

[Jvaughn]

Way to pick and choose players to try to validate your argument. Wall is on Rose's level athletically. They have similar leaping numbers (ones that actually matter, not max vertical that doesn't take into account length) and have similar sprint/agility numbers. To say Wall isn't on Rose' level athletically is flat-out wrong IMO.

I used your argument to show that it had no validation. Rose is an athletic freak. Wall is an above average athlete. There is a difference.

You're reaching Wall is an athletic freak as well. The hype that he has as a better athlete than Rose is incorrect though. I think this vid says it all.

Video just makes me more confident in my original statement. Wall is a great athlete, no argument there, but I don't see athletic freak like I do in Rose. Maybe I'll be proved wrong in his first NBA season, but from all the footage and games I've seen of Wall's I don't see it.

[dn0774]

Someone post John Stockton or Steve Nash's vert/agility/quickness numbers so we can shut this whole argument up. Its the pg position, athleticism is like the least important attribute for a great pg. That being said, on court in terms of functional athletic ability Rose does appear to be a half notch higher than Wall imo.

What I am really saying though is that it doesnt really matter, they are both elite athletically for the pg position and who is/will be better all depends on the ability of their brains. This season is really important for Derrick Rose, the third season is where the great pg's really begin to put it together in terms of running an offense efficiently and effectively. This season will really determine if he has the capability of being a big assist number pg or if he will be simply an elite scoring pg (not necessarily a bad thing) who can dish and find cutters when available.

One thing I will point out, it seems in terms of rings most of the championship teams rarely have pg's with huge assist numbers...not sure why that is. Perhaps a more balanced (in ball handling terms)/less predictable offense just fares better...

[Jvaughn]

If you can't tell the difference between Wall/Rose and Farmer athletically there is no point in continuing this argument.

To your 2nd point, Wall is an athletic freak as well. To say he's just "an above average athlete" is downplaying Walls athleticism, because Wall does have a slight advantage in some of the significant categories of the combine over Rose, just like Rose has a slight advantage in other significant categories of the combine over Wall.

Obviously I can see the difference in the athleticism between Rose/Wall and Farmar. My point was that combine results aren't a good measure of how athletic someone actually is. There are things in drills someone might be comfortable doing, that would be different than something they'd do in games.

Agree to disagree then. I don't see that in Wall like I do in Rose. Maybe above average was a slight, but I didn't mean to make it seem like that. Say Rose is a 10 athletically and Wall is an 8. Like I said in my response to Wharton, maybe this season will change my mind. As of now I dont think he's in the same athletic tier as Rose.

[patagonia]

Maybe we should let Wall play a few games before we rank him the #1 PG in the league.

[pancakes3]

coming in as prospects, wall is much more heralded than rose. he's the most hyped pg prospect since... telfair. not even paul or deron had this much hype coming into the season as a rookie. as for if he's going to pan out or not? i say it'd be hard for him to bust completely, but it's no lock that he becomes an all-nba talent any time soon either.

of course we need to let the kid play before we make any sort of definite decisions but i think he'd be better than devin harris. (hah. i almost wrote hester. got football on the mind).

[menofvalor]

Way to pick and choose players to try to validate your argument. Wall is on Rose's level athletically. They have similar leaping numbers (ones that actually matter, not max vertical that doesn't take into account length) and have similar sprint/agility numbers. To say Wall isn't on Rose' level athletically is flat-out wrong IMO.

I used your argument to show that it had no validation. Rose is an athletic freak. Wall is an above average athlete. There is a difference.

You're reaching Wall is an athletic freak as well. The hype that he has as a better athlete than Rose is incorrect though. I think this vid says it all.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCJHcBrl_aM[/youtube]

Wall is jumping out the building in that vid.

[juror1]

Intelligence of Rondo- No, not many do

A lot of people have been saying that Wall is way overrated, I would say that Rondo's intelligence is overrated. People have just talked about Rondo's intelligence a lot, but he is no smarter than guys like Nash, Chris Paul, or probably Jason Kidd.

The difference is that he is showing so much smarts at such an early age. I would argue that Wall is the same way.

Wall and Rondo went to the same university, got the same education and I would say are equally well spoken. I don't know about aptitude, but I wouldn't say that there is anything I see in the way Rondo evaluates the court during a basketball game that is any superior to Wall.

Quickness of Rose- No, he has nice speed, but he's not as quick or fast as Rose

He arguably is as quick as Rose, given the testing which someone else posted, though my point was that he is as athletic (or almost as) as they come, and he's a smarter player than Rose, with a better jumpshot, therefore IMO he is/will be a superior player.

Leadership of Paul-Absolutely not. Couldn't lead that super talented team to the win, and he hasn't played in the NBA yet, so that's way too premature

We will see. Though from what I saw in summer league, he does a very good job of instructing and rallying his troops.

[DCsOwn]

You're reaching Wall is an athletic freak as well. The hype that he has as a better athlete than Rose is incorrect though. I think this vid says it all.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCJHcBrl_aM[/youtube]

Wall is jumping out the building in that vid.

I dont care whether you are a Bulls fan or a Wizards fan, that video is about as close to porn as it gets without double teams and rim shots. Pure filth from both of those dudes.

And really, if this guy doesnt qualify as a freak athlete from the POINT GUARD position, our standards are probably too high.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkUxpa9CyaI[/youtube]

[Chosen01]

Of course Bulls homers will say Wall won't they are quick to put down anything that involves a PG with as much or better potential than Rose. Quite sad.

I don't know if Wall will THE best, but he'll definitely be in the first tier IMO

[cmd1985]

Intelligence of Rondo- No, not many do

A lot of people have been saying that Wall is way overrated, I would say that Rondo's intelligence is overrated. People have just talked about Rondo's intelligence a lot, but he is no smarter than guys like Nash, Chris Paul, or probably Jason Kidd.

The difference is that he is showing so much smarts at such an early age. I would argue that Wall is the same way.

Wall and Rondo went to the same university, got the same education and I would say are equally well spoken. I don't know about aptitude, but I wouldn't say that there is anything I see in the way Rondo evaluates the court during a basketball game that is any superior to Wall.

Quickness of Rose- No, he has nice speed, but he's not as quick or fast as Rose

He arguably is as quick as Rose, given the testing which someone else posted, though my point was that he is as athletic (or almost as) as they come, and he's a smarter player than Rose, with a better jumpshot, therefore IMO he is/will be a superior player.[b][/b]

Leadership of Paul-Absolutely not. Couldn't lead that super talented team to the win, and he hasn't played in the NBA yet, so that's way too premature

We will see. Though from what I saw in summer league, he does a very good job of instructing and rallying his troops.

He is better than Rose already? Because of his jumpshot? I think they shot real close percentage wise in college, with Rose maybe even better. And Rose has come a long way since then so if you're using a jumper to separate them I think you're off.

[KushIsMyCologne]

Of course Bulls homers will say Wall won't they are quick to put down anything that involves a PG with as much or better potential than Rose. Quite sad.

I don't know if Wall will THE best, but he'll definitely be in the first tier IMO

The post by Jayks is a prime example of why some Bulls fans get on the defensive when it comes to Rose. A lot of people just write stuff about him on the regular that just has no basis in reality. This guy is talking about Wall having a better jumpshot than Rose and being a smarter player and what not. Last time I checked Rose is one of, if not the least turnover prone of the elite PG's. He also is statiscally the BEST mid-range shooting PG in the league when you factor in volume along with the percentages. Yet you have this guy using things like intelligence and jumpshot as reasons to rate Wall over Rose, when those are two of the main things that most people think will cause Wall to struggle early on in his NBA career. It's nonsense.

And then Bulls fans take heat for bringing the real facts as if we're just supposed to sit back and watch all of realGM trash the team's franchise player with arguments that most of the time couldn't be further from the truth.

[AnSweR07]

I think Wall is a lil overhyped imo, I think he has potential to be really good, however I have my doubts on him primarily is he a winner? He didn't win a national championship on the most talented college ball team last year, he didn't even win on the hs level. I think hes slightly further along than rose in some areas primarily instinctive playmaking ability and better jumpshot. Difference between he and rose is rose is a proven winner..I don't see him as a stats guy at all..he just does what it takes to win. Rose mind you didn't come to the league with a great jumpshot..that was a weakness..he's worked on it and now one of the better shooters at his position. I will say though I don't envision him becoming a great pg though..he doesn't have that natural playmaking or court vision like the great pgs before him...nevertheless he'll still be very good to great player in this league. Wall has the chance to if he doesn't buy into his own hype.

[cmd1985]

Rose
14.9 PTS
47.7 FG%
33.7 3pt% (35-104)
71.2 FT

Wall
16.6 PTS
46.1 FG%
32.5 3pt% (37-114)
75.4 FT

Let's stop with how much further along Wall was as a shooter at the same point.

[ipoopinmypants]

Threads like this = sig heaven. Some people have some really stupid sh** to say about a player with 0 minutes of NBA experience.

[stacey_is_king]

He also is statiscally the BEST mid-range shooting PG in the league when you factor in volume along with the percentages.

Steve Nash (clearly), Chris Paul (arguably)

[nate33]

It's mind-boggling to me that so many Chicago fans get their panties in a twist whenever someone suggests that Wall could be better than Rose.

Based on what we know so far, Wall is equally as athletic as Rose, he's a bit longer, and he's had just as much success in his freshman year in college. Furthermore, Wall had more hype coming into the pros than Rose (for whatever that's worth) and is known as being more of a pure point.

I don't see how anybody can say that Wall doesn't have the potential to be the best PG in the league. That doesn't mean he will be the best, but he certainly has the potential to be the best. There's simply no way to refute that given the facts we have right now. It's no disrespect to Rose, Paul or anybody else in the league.

[Dr Positivity]

I think Wall has MVP potential

[KushIsMyCologne]

It's mind-boggling to me that so many Chicago fans get their panties in a twist whenever someone suggests that Wall could be better than Rose.

Based on what we know so far, Wall is equally as athletic as Rose, he's a bit longer, and he's had just as much success in his freshman year in college. Furthermore, Wall had more hype coming into the pros than Rose (for whatever that's worth) and is known as being more of a pure point.

I don't see how anybody can say that Wall doesn't have the potential to be the best PG in the league. That doesn't mean he will be the best, but he certainly has the potential to be the best. There's simply no way to refute that given the facts we have right now. It's no disrespect to Rose, Paul or anybody else in the league.

I don't see Bulls fans getting upset until certain retards began trying to make 'serious' arguments as to why Wall IS (meaning already) better or will be by the end of this season.

[Zeitgeister]

Wall will be a good player, there is no doubt about it. It's too early to say whether he will be better than Rose but you'd have to be crazy to not think that Wall is an athletic freak.

[Brenice]

[quote="AnSweR07"]I think Wall is a lil overhyped imo, I think he has potential to be really good, however I have my doubts on him primarily is he a winner? He didn't win a national championship on the most talented college ball team last year[quote]

I didn't know Rose and Memphis won the championship. I thought they lost. The thing about it is Rose played with upperclassmen who were drafted. Wall played with basically freshmen. But I guess that doesn't make any difference.

I like Rose, but as a Wizard fan, I hope he ends up as good as Rose. We will see. I tell you what though, Rose to date, has not had the offensive talent in Chicago that Wall has in Washington, which will make it easier for Wall.