Official Trade Thread XIV: 6/14/10 - 12/22/10

[Cowology]

Not saying I'd do this, but just outa curiosity would you consider something like Prince/Villanueva for Arenas? Prince is obviously a big expiring and CV would be a solid bench player for you. He's kinda like Jamison-lite; a lot of the same tools and skills, but he lacks in the intangibles (leadership etc).

[Silvie Lysandra]

Counter-offer - Arenas + Yi + Thornton for Rip + Prince + Jerebko

Salary-wise, it doesn't provide us the kind of savings we want, but we get a nice young prospect, and veterans who have a history of success in this system. My concern is whether Rip and Prince want to play for Flip.

Basically, that deal would make us a 45-50 win team right away, and once Rip expires, we can continue to build for the future. But right now, I think getting our young team some playoff exposure is important to their development.

[LyricalRico]

Counter-offer - Arenas + Yi + Thornton for Rip + Prince + Jerebko

Salary-wise, it doesn't provide us the kind of savings we want...

Yeah, the salary part is what makes this a "no" for me. If we had another multi-year contract not named Hinrich to include in the swap so that Prince's expiring was really helping us, that would be different. But if we're going to pay Rip $12.5M per, we might as well pay Gil a few mil more. I'm primarily looking for expirings for Arenas.

Also, as much as I like Rip Hamilton and have wanted him in the past, I don't think our current bigs are best used setting screens for Rip in the way that Big Ben was. They either can't do it (McGee) or should be scoring themselves (Blatche).

[no D in Hibachi]

But if we're going to pay Rip $12.5M per, we might as well pay Gil a few mil more.

Bingo!

[Cowology]

Yeah, I wouldn't expect to pawn Rip off on you. But Detroit wouldn't part with Jerebko either.

[Silvie Lysandra]

Fair enough - I figured that the salary part would be an issue, but I know Detroit is high on JJ, and I hoped taking back Hamilton would be the incentive needed to agree to the deal (and for the record I think Stuckey is a great fit with Arenas, seeing Stuckey is actually good defensively and can take the best opposing defensive matchup), while Gordon gets 24-30 mpg backing both of them up.)

[Cowology]

Fair enough - I figured that the salary part would be an issue, but I know Detroit is high on JJ, and I hoped taking back Hamilton would be the incentive needed to agree to the deal (and for the record I think Stuckey is a great fit with Arenas, seeing Stuckey is actually good defensively and can take the best opposing defensive matchup), while Gordon gets 24-30 mpg backing both of them up.)

Complete fantasy on my part, but I was envisioning that exact scenario; a 3-guard rotation w/ Stuckey essentially playing the role of Larry Hughes w/ Gordon off the bench as my Vinnie Johnson. I'd probably wanna find a big defensive 2 as my 4th guard, but that's a problem to deal w/ down the road.

I know most (like 99% of Piston fans) want nothing to do w/ Arenas, but the guy can still ball and while a bit goofy, sometimes immature and lacking in good judgment I don't think he's a bad guy or any sort of a cancer (as I'm sure many of you would agree). I'd personally be willing and even excited to trade for him if the price were right.

I've been trying to come up w/ 3-ways where Rip is headed to a 3rd team, but it's difficult. Some Pacer fans have been receptive to Rip for TJ Ford & either D.Jones or B.Rush given their recent trouble w/ players at that position. Utah (AK47) & Orlando (Vince) are other often discussed possibilities.

But I'm also not entirely sure what Washington fans expectations are. Would you move him for pure expirings? Better/Worse?

[willbcocks]

There's a 70 page thread here where we debate whether or not Gil should be moved for expirings.

To sum it up:

1/3 don't want to move him for expirings because they see him as part of our future
1/3 want to wait before making any decisions, both to see how he meshes with wall and to rehab his trade value
1/3 would be willing to trade him for expirings

I know you didn't suggest it, but just to add a final point, I don't think anyone here would be willing to trade Wiz prospects in order to move him.

I would do your suggested trade for Charlie V if we could move him to a 3rd team for another expiring. Skilled though he is, I want our team to be tough and defensive minded and I don't think he would contribute to that.

[Dat2U]

Not saying I'd do this, but just outa curiosity would you consider something like Prince/Villanueva for Arenas? Prince is obviously a big expiring and CV would be a solid bench player for you. He's kinda like Jamison-lite; a lot of the same tools and skills, but he lacks in the intangibles (leadership etc).

I totally agree that Villanueva is alot like Jamison. Honestly, I'd say he's just as good as Jamison, w/o the over-inflated rep. But that's exactly why I wouldn't want him. CV like Jamison isn't the type of player that helps you win games. The last thing we need is another finesse offensive big that's unable or unwilling to defend or put a body on someone.

[Cowology]

Not saying I'd do this, but just outa curiosity would you consider something like Prince/Villanueva for Arenas? Prince is obviously a big expiring and CV would be a solid bench player for you. He's kinda like Jamison-lite; a lot of the same tools and skills, but he lacks in the intangibles (leadership etc).

I totally agree that Villanueva is alot like Jamison. Honestly, I'd say he's just as good as Jamison, w/o the over-inflated rep. But that's exactly why I wouldn't want him. CV like Jamison isn't the type of player that helps you win games. The last thing we need is another finesse offensive big that's unable or unwilling to defend or put a body on someone.

fair 'nuff.

[verbal8]

Not saying I'd do this, but just outa curiosity would you consider something like Prince/Villanueva for Arenas? Prince is obviously a big expiring and CV would be a solid bench player for you. He's kinda like Jamison-lite; a lot of the same tools and skills, but he lacks in the intangibles (leadership etc).

I think this is the type of deal that happens if the Wizards look good, but the Arenas/Wall backcourt does not mesh. I think Detroit needs to move Gordon or Hamilton somehow to bring in Arenas.

[LyricalRico]

Not saying I'd do this, but just outa curiosity would you consider something like Prince/Villanueva for Arenas? Prince is obviously a big expiring and CV would be a solid bench player for you. He's kinda like Jamison-lite; a lot of the same tools and skills, but he lacks in the intangibles (leadership etc).

I think this is the type of deal that happens if the Wizards look good, but the Arenas/Wall backcourt does not mesh. I think Detroit needs to move Gordon or Hamilton somehow to bring in Arenas.

Make it Prince and Maxiell and I'd be more interested. Maxiell's deal is more palatable and he brings a dimension we don't already have. I'd probably pull the trigger if it got all the way to the deadline and nobody was offering pure expirings. But you're right that there would probably need to be a third team involved to take Rip. Not sure who, though.

[verbal8]

Not saying I'd do this, but just outa curiosity would you consider something like Prince/Villanueva for Arenas? Prince is obviously a big expiring and CV would be a solid bench player for you. He's kinda like Jamison-lite; a lot of the same tools and skills, but he lacks in the intangibles (leadership etc).

I think this is the type of deal that happens if the Wizards look good, but the Arenas/Wall backcourt does not mesh. I think Detroit needs to move Gordon or Hamilton somehow to bring in Arenas.

Make it Prince and Maxiell and I'd be more interested. Maxiell's deal is more palatable and he brings a dimension we don't already have. I'd probably pull the trigger if it got all the way to the deadline and nobody was offering pure expirings. But you're right that there would probably need to be a third team involved to take Rip. Not sure who, though.

Three teams come to mind that have a need(or potential need) at SG and are willing to spend money: Magic, Mavs and Nuggets.

[LyricalRico]

^ I don't see Orlando adding another swingman without dealing VC in the process. Otherwise, they'll have way too much money tied up in the 2/3 positions and will be forced to continue to play Lewis at PF (which means they are also wasting the money they spent on bigs).

I'm also not high on the Dallas idea. I'm not sure Rip would fit in with their offense since he's historically been so dependent on the Detroit offense being set up specifically to get him open. With Dirk being the focal point of the Mavs offense, I'm not sure they'd get their money's worth out of Rip (even with Kidd running the point).

But I do like the Denver idea, especially since it would reunite Hamilton with Billups and also give them a bit of a handcuff should they lose Melo. Rip+Wilcox+Summers for KMart+Balkman?

[verbal8]

^ I don't see Orlando adding another swingman without dealing VC in the process. Otherwise, they'll have way too much money tied up in the 2/3 positions and will be forced to continue to play Lewis at PF (which means they are also wasting the money they spent on bigs).

I think it would be a VC for Hamilton swap with the Pistons adding an incentive to take on Hamilton's deal.

I'm also not high on the Dallas idea. I'm not sure Rip would fit in with their offense since he's historically been so dependent on the Detroit offense being set up specifically to get him open. With Dirk being the focal point of the Mavs offense, I'm not sure they'd get their money's worth out of Rip (even with Kidd running the point).

I looked at the rosters more closely and I don't think that Dallas would do a deal that they would get Hamilton(if they wanted him) without also getting Prince and probably getting rid of Marion.

But I do like the Denver idea, especially since it would reunite Hamilton with Billups and also give them a bit of a handcuff should they lose Melo. Rip+Wilcox+Summers for KMart+Balkman?

It would be similar to what the Cavs did in acquiring Jamison, especially if KMart is waived and comes back to Denver. The reasons and risks are the same, but it makes sense if they were all-in on the keep Carmelo strategy.

[LyricalRico]

Check out this quote from the Wolves GM:

However, if one of our players fails to emerge, we will be prepared to find more talent for our team – and we will seek a singular move rather than a series of moves, as we did these last 14 months.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolve ... anchO7DiUr

Arenas to Minny, anyone? They've already proven they love to sign or trade for PGs.

[Wizardspride]

Check out this quote from the Wolves GM:

However, if one of our players fails to emerge, we will be prepared to find more talent for our team – and we will seek a singular move rather than a series of moves, as we did these last 14 months.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolve ... anchO7DiUr

Arenas to Minny, anyone? They've already proven they love to sign or trade for PGs.

You are absolutely desperate to get rid of Arenas....aren't ya?

[KiNgSbOi]

Gil to Minny? I say pass! I want to see the Gil/Wall experiment, even if it doesn't work out according to plan, you have to think about the fun it could be.

[Kingsforlife]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=2542xsl

Every King fan except me thinks Kirk Hinrich is a scrub, he cant play, hes got no game whatsosever, he can move but he doesnt know what hes doing, hes a bonafide scrub and is not Carl Landry value? I dont see how Kirk fits there at all, he never played well offensivly at the 2 guard for the Bulls, and probably the Kings and Bucks need to throw a second rounders to the Wiz if Landry leaves.

[verbal8]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2542xsl

Every King fan except me thinks Kirk Hinrich is a scrub, he cant play, hes got no game whatsosever, he can move but he doesnt know what hes doing, hes a bonafide scrub and is not Carl Landry value? I dont see how Kirk fits there at all, he never played well offensivly at the 2 guard for the Bulls, and probably the Kings and Bucks need to throw a second rounders to the Wiz if Landry leaves.

I don't see much point to that deal. If Dalembert is beat out by Cousins and Thompson is eating into his minutes at C, I could see dealing Dalembert for Hinrich. I think Hinrich might work well with Evans.