Bargnani vs. Gallinari

[swirsk]

Unlike Bargnani, Gallo isn't the biggest defensive/rebounding liability in the NBA. With their offensive impact being similar I don't see how this isn't Gallo ten times out of ten.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I just don't see the Knicks as the new Raptors...really, at all except for a few similarities on offense (although, I think the Knicks will have better efficiency because they will be able to play half-court basketball as well).

Also, the D won't just be "marginally better"...it will be significantly better.

There you go again with the "I never watched the Raptors" stuff again. The Raptors were in the middle of the pack in terms of pace and were the 5th best offence. How much more efficient can you really get?
You're talking like 20th in pace and a top 3 offence. It just won't happen, especially since the Raptors had a better offensive set up than this year's Knicks.

The Knicks half court set up will NOT be that nice this year. Randolph can't shoot, he's like a poor man's Odom in terms of shooting, which is bad. Felton is not reliable, he can be streaky but he is not nearly as good a shooter as Calderno/Jack. Then you have Chandler who is about the same as Weems and Gallinari who is a better shooter than Turkoglu but Turkoglu is almost as big of a "threat" if you know what I mean.
Then Bargnani ends up being the deciding factor over Randolph. He's a way better option because he has lots of range and pulls a big man out of the paint. Then Bosh is more used to getting Iso's all the time and who has more weapons in his offensive arsenal than Amare.

My bad...whenever I watched them play, they were always running...pace seemed higher.

Regardless, Chandler is much better than Weems lol...Turk isn't more of a threat than Gallo. Last two months of the season, when Gallo was focused more on offense, he showed he had the full offensive repertoire.

I still see the Knicks winning 44 (minimum) this year...whatever. I'm not gonna get you to agree with me and you're not going to get me to agree with you. We'll just wait and see...

@clownparade, neither player is a bust...not even close.

[tsherkin]

He's talking about New York.

Oops. Egg, face. Chuckles. My bad.

Also, Knicks, with respect to Bosh... you have to remember that he's played out of position moreso than even Amare, and that he's not really well-equipped to do so. He looks bad on defense, but he rotates pretty well and he handles quickness better than he handles power... as is typical for true PFs. Amare happens to be built well, so it doesn't bother him so much, but guys with strong lower bodies can move Chris around very easily because of his high center of gravity and relative lack of mass. And as far as contact goes, he does nothing but J it up or drive right at the D to draw fouls, so I wouldn't say he's afraid of contact. Even less so these last few seasons as he's started to scrap more for boards.

He's definitely a better defender than Stoudemire, though, he puts effort into the little things that Amare ignores, like putting his hands up on D and hustling. And defensive rebounding. Amare is a terrible defender who gambles for high-visibility blocks a lot, that's all. He got a little better last season, I admit, but he's still an awful defender, and Bosh is at least average. He looked worse because he was playing on one of the 10 worst defenses in the last 30 or so seasons, but that's hardly his fault. Is he a game-changer on D? No, far from it, but he's certainly not the root of bad defense by any stretch of the imagination.

[Lionel Messi]

I just don't see the Knicks as the new Raptors...really, at all except for a few similarities on offense (although, I think the Knicks will have better efficiency because they will be able to play half-court basketball as well).

Also, the D won't just be "marginally better"...it will be significantly better.

There you go again with the "I never watched the Raptors" stuff again. The Raptors were in the middle of the pack in terms of pace and were the 5th best offence. How much more efficient can you really get?
You're talking like 20th in pace and a top 3 offence. It just won't happen, especially since the Raptors had a better offensive set up than this year's Knicks.

The Knicks half court set up will NOT be that nice this year. Randolph can't shoot, he's like a poor man's Odom in terms of shooting, which is bad. Felton is not reliable, he can be streaky but he is not nearly as good a shooter as Calderno/Jack. Then you have Chandler who is about the same as Weems and Gallinari who is a better shooter than Turkoglu but Turkoglu is almost as big of a "threat" if you know what I mean.
Then Bargnani ends up being the deciding factor over Randolph. He's a way better option because he has lots of range and pulls a big man out of the paint. Then Bosh is more used to getting Iso's all the time and who has more weapons in his offensive arsenal than Amare.

My bad...whenever I watched them play, they were always running...pace seemed higher.

Regardless, Chandler is much better than Weems lol...Turk isn't more of a threat than Gallo. Last two months of the season, when Gallo was focused more on offense, he showed he had the full offensive repertoire.

I still see the Knicks winning 44 (minimum) this year...whatever. I'm not gonna get you to agree with me and you're not going to get me to agree with you. We'll just wait and see...

@clownparade, neither player is a bust...not even close.

You're misunderstanding me.
Chandler is a better PLAYER than Weems, but in terms of stretching the defence in a half-court set they're about equal.
Weems shot 47% from shots between 16-23 feet on 3 attempts a game while Chandler shot 38% on 3.5 attempts a game.
I forget the stats for 10-15 but either way Weems is just as big of a shooting threat as Chandler from the mid-range.
I also didn't say Hedo was a bigger threat than Gallo, and again I wasn't talking about them as overall players, just shooting ability.
Gallo is a better shooter, no question, but Hedo had the reputation (and decent 3pt%) for 3pters that made him almost as much of a "threat" when spacing the floor and stretching the defence.

Do you understand what I mean?

[Luv those Knicks]

The correct answer is bargs... and its not even close... he fills a harder position, hes a better defender, he can be the focal point of a teams offense. He's improving aspects of his game each year, while gallo hasn't improved on anything really.

cough ones a #1 over pick cough

please get real

oh and for the record NY fans would pee there pants with a player like Bargs. he would easily score over 20ppg

Wat?

and you ask others to get real?


wow.

[Mel0Knicks9]

Gallo all day everyday

[lobosloboslobos]

Raps fan, Bargs fan, optimist. I think Bargs is going to kill it this year. But leaving aside my biased opinion, for those who were asking about his play this summer for the national team here are some nice highlights. His game has evolved a lot...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swc4KCg9V7s[/youtube]

[clownparade]

i think both will easily be 25/10 players next season and continue to improve past that

[chadrucf]

i think both will easily be 25/10 players next season and continue to improve past that

So they will both easily do something that no one has done for years...?

[lilfishi22]

i think both will easily be 25/10 players next season and continue to improve past that

So they will both easily do something that no one has done for years...?

Easily

While ignoring the fact that Bargs is a terrible rebounder and would be closer to averaging 30PPG than he would at double digit rebounding.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

The correct answer is bargs... and its not even close... he fills a harder position, hes a better defender, he can be the focal point of a teams offense. He's improving aspects of his game each year, while gallo hasn't improved on anything really.

The correct response here is

This is especially hysterical because he hasn't shown anything to indicate that he can be a focal scorer (some 75-80% of his offense is assisted annually), he's among the worst rebounders in the league for his position and he's got extremely limited defensive instincts. Not a great combination for a big.

He plays like a SF and while he's developing, he's really bad as a PF or C. He's much better suited to playing in Europe, where he can safely be a SF. If he does develop as an iso scorer, he'll be able to find a niche (at least on a good team) as a 3rd-option scorer, or 2nd if it's really tight and he improves a lot. But really? Given the choice, there are a LOT of forwards and centers to take over him, particularly given the nearly-null movement in his rebounding ability in the 4 years he's been in the league.

The question wasn't between bargs and other C's it was Bargnani and Gallo. And as for Bargs rebounds, in comparison to other POWER FORWARDS which is his natural position... He is an average defensive rebounder and a horrible offensive rebounder. All of which he did playing beside the best rebounding PF in the league last year... hmmmmm logic dictates he will improve his rebounding numbers for the 2010/2011 season.

His ability to stretch the floor from his respective position (with his extended range) shifts opposing teams defenses. This is a huge commodity since its a skill set not found in a lot of PF's or C's.

Not to mention he only played C for a year or two. Not all players work well when forced into playing a postion that isn't there natural position. "Gallo sure is a bad rebounding PF"... see what i mean. just because he plays some games at that position doesn't mean it's what he's best suited for.

but yeah give me the 7 foot PF who plays decent defense and great offense over a 3pt specialist anyday

[F1uxCapacit0r]

Gallinari. Simply because I don't think you can win a championship with a soft center like Bargnani.

but you sure can with a SF who can only shoot threes with shotty defense... nice

[gavran]

Gallinari. Simply because I don't think you can win a championship with a soft center like Bargnani.

but you sure can with a SF who can only shoot threes with shotty defense... nice

You can't. Thankfully Gallo doesn't fit your description.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

Bottom line this comparison will be made painfully more clear once the season starts. Even people who think gallo is the better player should at least be admitting bargs will be putting up way better numbers than him. he's now the #1 scoring option on his team. a team that lost one of the leagues leading scorers and rebounders. Whom do you think will be getting the majority of them>? ed davis? get real.

And as for bargnani being a bad rebounder... i already stated that he is at the very least an average defensive rebounder he just sucks at offensive rebounds because he is never in position. Why was he never in position... because our old system had him camped out at the three to draw out the opposing big. Lets see how he does now that he will be closer to 15 feet from the net instead of behind the arc.

my prediction for bargs

20.7ppg / 7.6rpg / 1.5apg / 1.7bpg


my prediction for gallo is

17ppg / 5.2rpg / 1.9apg / 1stg / .5bpg

[kamaze]

Bargs has better stas but he's been in the league four years I'd take Gallo.

[tsherkin]

The question wasn't between bargs and other C's it was Bargnani and Gallo. And as for Bargs rebounds, in comparison to other POWER FORWARDS which is his natural position... He is an average defensive rebounder and a horrible offensive rebounder. All of which he did playing beside the best rebounding PF in the league last year... hmmmmm logic dictates he will improve his rebounding numbers for the 2010/2011 season.

LOGIC dicatates the inclusion of qualitative analysis, which reveals that he's terrible about going TO the ball and has weak anticipation skills. This, combined with his pedestrian leaping ability, does not make for a very positive outlook on his rebounding. More to the point, he has been playing beside Bosh for a while now, and had his BEST rebounding season in Bosh's best season, which seems to indicate that Bosh's rebounding had no impact whatsoever on what Andrea was able to accomplish... which seems likely, given that the team as a whole was a crappy rebounding team and that there were plenty of boards available.

This is a huge commodity since its a skill set not found in a lot of PF's or C's.

To the extent that he displays it, that's true, but perimeter shooting ability is quite common among PFs. There are tons of guys who can stick it to 20 feet, which is more than sufficient. Right now, we're talking about a 7' Robert Horry with less clutch and less defense. That's not all that encouraging.

Meantime, average defensive rebounder compared to PFs, eh? Bargs ranked 39th out of 47 power forwards who played 1,000+ minutes last year in defensive rebounds per 36 minutes.

Did you want to try that again? He's a foul rebounder, not just on the offensive glass. I can forgive him the offensive glass because he spends his time on O, by design, mostly camped behind the arc. That improved a little this past season and, wouldn't you know it, he rebounded a little better on the offensive glass. It's his spectacularly bad defensive rebounding that's the problem. See, Bargs managed 5.0 DREB36 last year. That's 0.1 DRB36 worse than last year, and about 0.5, 0.6 better than his first two seasons, when he was actually playing the PF position instead of the 5.

So no, it's ABSOLUTELY incorrect to say he's an average defensive rebounder relative to his position. For a guy playing 1,000+ minutes, the DREB36 median was 6.2, or some 24% better than what Bargnani managed. He was TERRIBLE, and it wasn't positional, and it wasn't Bosh. He's just a terrible defensive rebounder.

[MSGBallerz]

Gallinari, easily.

[method]

The correct answer is bargs... and its not even close... he fills a harder position, hes a better defender, he can be the focal point of a teams offense. He's improving aspects of his game each year, while gallo hasn't improved on anything really.

cough ones a #1 over pick cough

please get real

oh and for the record NY fans would pee there pants with a player like Bargs. he would easily score over 20ppg

Wat?

and you ask others to get real?


wow.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

I'm not shocked that NY fans think Gallo is better. Fans tend to overrate their own players. But if this debate must go on, I say wait until at least 10 games into the season and we shall see who produces more. I dare you to bring this thread up 10 games into the season.

[joe.linnen]

Build around? Neither.

the last time I checked the object of this game was to crush the other teams on your way to a title but if they changed it let me know