john wall vs derrick rose

sabi · Post #41 » by **sabi** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:46 pm

llllllllllllll wrote:lol at rondo. rondo has no ability. that gotta be the worst case scenario for a talent like wall.

codeman_bmf · Post #42 » by **codeman_bmf** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:58 am

llllllllllllll wrote:lol at rondo. rondo has no ability. that gotta be the worst case scenario for a talent like wall.

I believe Wall will be better than rose, he's gonna tear the league up. And He wasn't comparing Rondo to Wall anyway, and to say rondo has no ability is just ignorant. 13.7ppg 4.4rpg 9.8apg 2.3spg 2009-2010 2nd in trip-doubles last year and tied LBJ for most in playoffs.

stacey_is_king · Post #43 » by **stacey_is_king** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:13 am

Debating handles is the most arbitrary thing ever...=/

Post #44 » by **KF10** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:13 am

Lets wait until Wall plays a NBA game to compare him to Rose (or any other players in the NBA).

GhostsOfGil · Post #45 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:22 am

stacey_is_king wrote:Debating handles is the most arbitrary thing ever...=/

disagree. were not talking about and1 here man. someone mentioned rose's superior ball handling skills and if you watch a lot of wall/rose its hard to disagree with that argument. rose's handles look much more polished/clean and under control. wall still needs to tighten up his handles. there were a few times at KU and during the summer league where he dribbled the ball off his leg or lost control. when wall dribbles he has tendencies to let the ball stray from his hip. just watch youtube clips, his crossover is very loose and the ball is out like 2 feet away from his hips. obviously his handles will improve tho

stacey_is_king · Post #46 » by **stacey_is_king** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:45 am

zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:
stacey_is_king wrote:Debating handles is the most arbitrary thing ever...=/

disagree. were not talking about and1 here man. someone mentioned rose's superior ball handling skills and if you watch a lot of wall/rose its hard to disagree with that argument. rose's handles look much more polished/clean and under control. wall still needs to tighten up his handles. there were a few times at KU and during the summer league where he dribbled the ball off his leg or lost control. when wall dribbles he has tendencies to let the ball stray from his hip. just watch youtube clips, his crossover is very loose and the ball is out like 2 feet away from his hips. obviously his handles will improve tho

I agree with your assessment. Rose's handles are great.

But it's not like it's something that can't be fixed...it'll go up with experience by default.

wiff · Post #47 » by **wiff** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:55 am

I'll go with Westbrook.

Recently · Post #48 » by **Recently** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:52 am

Based soley on their college careers (cause its unfair to compare wall right now to rose whos had a couple year in the league), Wall was definitely the better college player. Dunno, hard to say, however Wall is on a terrible terrible team, so he will probably be given the green light to do whatever he pleases.

Anything less than 20/5/5 like tyreke last year would be surprising imo.

Wade2k6 · Post #49 » by **Wade2k6** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:05 am

Anything less then 20-5-5 would be surprising? There has only been something like 3 or 4 players in the history of the game to accomplish that. That is part of the reason why people are so quick to label players as busts (especially after there rookie years), because they have unrealistic predictions to begin with.

GhostsOfGil · Post #50 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:10 pm

Wade2k6 wrote:Anything less then 20-5-5 would be surprising? There has only been something like 3 or 4 players in the history of the game to accomplish that. That is part of the reason why people are so quick to label players as busts (especially after there rookie years), because they have unrealistic predictions to begin with.

+1

patagonia · Post #51 » by **patagonia** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:05 pm

Derrick Rose: Averaged 17 points and 6 assists in his rookie year and had 36 points and 11 assists in his first playoff game tying Kareem's record. He was also voted Rookie of the year. In his 2nd year he made the All-Star team while averaging 21 and 6 (after the all-star break his numbers were considerably better than the first few months when he was recovering from an ankle injury). In his second year in the playoffs he averaged 27 points and 7 assists. After 2 years in the league he has averaged 19 and 6 in the regular season and 23 and 7 in the playoffs. Additionally, he won a gold medal at the FIBA World Championships.

John Wall: zero games played in the NBA.

While people have every right to be excited about Wall's potential, it's clear Rose has already established himself as an elite player in the league. His first two years have been exceptional and it's possible he'll make a huge transition in his 3rd year (especially now that he has a real coach). The addition of a true post scorer and outside shooting could get Rose close to 20/10 territory.

Wall, I think, has some unrealistically high expectations for this season and he's bound to disappoint some people who think he's going to be the best pg in the league or get 20/5/5. Let's see how he does after a full year of the NBA grind before anointing him better than Rose, Rondo, or whomever.

Chosen01 · Post #52 » by **Chosen01** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:11 pm

Wall won't average 20 5 and 5, I can see him getting 17 5 and 4

Post #53 » by **AshyLarrysDiaper** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:32 pm

Counter-intuitive as it may seem, I think Wall and Rose are hard players to compare.

You have Rose, who has some obvious flaws in his game: interior passing, 3 pt shooting, drawing FT's, defense.

And then there's Wall, who isn't deficient at any one thing (while his shot isn't great, there's plenty of time to bring it ), but lacks polish.

To me, it'll come down to this: Rose's ability to score at elite efficiency vs. Wall's ability to rein in the mistakes while staying dynamic. And I think we'll see what's what as soon as the end of this coming season, with respect to Rose.

GhostsOfGil · Post #54 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:36 pm

Chosen01 wrote:Wall won't average 20 5 and 5, I can see him getting 17 5 and 4

with howard arenas and blatche i doubt hell average 17 with only 4 assits. i think 15 and 7 is a more realistic expectation for him this season.

Post #55 » by **AshyLarrysDiaper** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:37 pm

zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:
Chosen01 wrote:Wall won't average 20 5 and 5, I can see him getting 17 5 and 4

with howard arenas and blatche i doubt hell average 17 with only 4 assits. i think 15 and 7 is a more realistic expectation for him this season.

I have a hard time seeing Wall averaging less than 7 assists, too.

martinm · Post #56 » by **martinm** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:18 pm

This is definitely rose.

I agree Wall will most likely have around 15 and 6-7.

Just curious though, isn't Howard out for part of the season?

Then there are definitely issues with Blatche being a complainer and Arenas being stupid. These things could play into how good Wall does his rookie season.

GhostsOfGil · Post #57 » by **GhostsOfGil** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:09 pm

martinm wrote:This is definitely rose.

I agree Wall will most likely have around 15 and 6-7.

Just curious though, isn't Howard out for part of the season?

Then there are definitely issues with Blatche being a complainer and Arenas being stupid. These things could play into how good Wall does his rookie season.

howard will probably be out for a month. blatche is the only player i am concerned with stunting walls development. i think if gilbert stays out of trouble (and theres no reason rite now to think otherwise) wall will really benefit playing next to him. as pointed out already wall can be somewhat turnover prone, and still struggles in half court sets. thsi is where having arenas next to him will really take some of the pressure off. throw wall into a wizards team without arenas, and i imaging wall's fg% would drop and his tos would sky rocket.

Post #58 » by **UGA Hayes** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:35 am

First of all will people please stop saying "lets wait for player x to play an actual game," its obnoxious and sort of defeats the purpose of this board which is to predict the outcomes of players careers.

Anyway, I personally think Wall is going to challenge Paul for best PG in the league. Also, I think people are underestimating what Wall's stats are going to be, forgetting that he ran what felt like the fastest pace offense in college I have seen in forever. He freaking pushed the ball on every possession. Washington is probabably going to be the fastest pace offense in the league next year, And as crazy as it sounds, I wouldn't be shocked if b/t Arenas and Wall, they challenged the heat for most foul shots taken in the season.

stacey_is_king · Post #59 » by **stacey_is_king** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:13 am

UGA Hayes wrote:First of all will people please stop saying "lets wait for player x to play an actual game," its obnoxious and sort of defeats the purpose of this board which is to predict the outcomes of players careers.

Huh? How are you supposed to predict something with absolutely no data?

mattg · Post #60 » by **mattg** » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:25 am

Wade2k6 wrote:
mr.ankle wrote:He also had alot more talent than Rose had and he still could not lead his team to the final four .

Yeah, if you ignore the fact that Kentucky missed the tournament the year before Wall came and Rose was the final piece of an already veteran Memphis team that made the elite 8 the previous year.

you wanna ignore that Wall played alongside the best big man in the country in Cousins? Or another lotto pick in PP? Rose had CDR yes, but the year after those 2 left, the rest of that team collapsed in the tournament around Tyreke Evans. Evans dominated and the rest of the memphis team sucked a fat dick. UK had far more talent.

who will have the better nba career