The Javale McGee Appreciation Thread

[dobrojim]

fwiw

I had doubts about ET and think Couz was/woulda been a better choice
for PHL.

I think the Roy/ET comparisons were wishful thinking by
ET supporters

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

LR, I'll get this thread back on topic in a way you'll LOVE.

HOW ABOUT ERNEST GRUNFELD drafting Javale McGee? That kid's getting better.

[fishercob]

Re-posting this from the Bulls game thread discussion....

I think the Chandler comparison is close, though perhaps a bit optimistic. Chandler wasn't a very good ball player until he broke out in his 4th year. Like McGee, he could accumulate stats, but he didn't help his team win. Then, suddenly, in his 4th season, he figured the game out and became a defensive force.

His on/off differential in his third season was -3.5.
By his fourth season, it jumped to +3.1.
In his fifth season, it was +4.5.

We'll have to wait and see if things click for McGee. McGee is older, so one would hope that it won't take quite as long as it took Chandler. On the other hand, Chandler got more minutes as a young player.

It does appear that Chandler's defensive, offensive, and overall rebounding percentages spiked his third year in the league. Marcus Camby (at 24 and 25 respectively) in his 3rd and 4th years saw big bumps too. In that respect, I suppose there's some hope for McGee. If he's able to grow his game the way those guys did, then look out.

[pancakes3]

pancakes, if the Spurs surprise and win the NBA title this year I will be getting back to you on this, because Blair WILL be a big part of whatever that team does right.

blair is already a big part of what that team does right. also, i was just as outraged as you were when he slipped to as far as he did.

HOWEVER, i'm not going to be a revisionist and go back and say i was ready to draft him #5 overall. I was a convert ever since he pildrove thabeet in snagging that rebound some time in mid January. My take on blair was that he was a pugnacious yet undersized rebounder who, if managed properly, would be a decent PF in the league. I didn't foresee allstar nods in his future, or even consistent double-double potential. I still don't.

even if the spurs do win it all this year, Blair won't play more than 24 mpg, and would be at best, the 5th most important cog in the spurs machine.

as for JVMcGEE, i'm also not anticipating any significant improvement from the kid. he's played in about a dozen games already in SL and preseason and he's shown very little progression in terms of court sense. there's no reason for me to suspend the part of my brain that extrapolates and hopes he becomes a 9rpg guy in '10-'11.

the only nice thing i can say about mcgee right now is that at least he's not deandre jordan.

[Nivek]

There's plenty of reason to hope for significant improvement from McGee this season. He has oodles of physical tools and the third season is when most NBAers "get it." Once a guy gets through his 4th season, what you see is pretty much what you get. If there's going to be a dramatic improvement from McGee, it's almost certain to be this year or next. If it's this season, the Wizards will be better than I'm projecting them to be. If it's next season, the Wiz will get to add another lottery pick to the roster.

[gesa2]

There's plenty of reason to hope for significant improvement from McGee this season. He has oodles of physical tools and the third season is when most NBAers "get it." Once a guy gets through his 4th season, what you see is pretty much what you get. If there's going to be a dramatic improvement from McGee, it's almost certain to be this year or next. If it's this season, the Wizards will be better than I'm projecting them to be. If it's next season, the Wiz will get to add another lottery pick to the roster.

And if it's neither, our odds of competing for championships in 4-5 years get a lot slimmer.

[fishercob]

There's plenty of reason to hope for significant improvement from McGee this season. He has oodles of physical tools and the third season is when most NBAers "get it." Once a guy gets through his 4th season, what you see is pretty much what you get. If there's going to be a dramatic improvement from McGee, it's almost certain to be this year or next. If it's this season, the Wizards will be better than I'm projecting them to be. If it's next season, the Wiz will get to add another lottery pick to the roster.

If McGee blossoms over the next two years the way Chandler and Camby did in their third and fourth seasons, it will be a complete an total game changer for the Wiz. I'm scared to allow myself to hope that such growth could actually happen.

[queridiculo]

If McGee blossoms over the next two years the way Chandler and Camby did in their third and fourth seasons, it will be a complete an total game changer for the Wiz. I'm scared to allow myself to hope that such growth could actually happen.

Seeing how well Wall and McGee get on in the half court set, I'm sort of hoping that some of JWs work ethic and commitment to playing on both ends will rub off on Javale.

If McGee can't take it to the next level at the 5, this team might not go anywhere anytime soon.

[Nivek]

I like those Camby/Chandler/McGee comparisons. Through 2 seasons, McGee had better offensive and defensive rebounding percentages than Camby. A better ortg (by a lot). A nearly identical block%. Camby had a MUCH higher assist rate with a comparable turnover rate, suggesting a better hoops IQ.

Compared to Chandler, McGee was better on the offensive glass, worse on the defensive boards, had a better ortg, a better block% and a better turnover rate. Chandler was 2 years younger at the same stage in their careers, though.

Both guys played a bunch more minutes through their first 2 seasons than McGee did (3899 for Camby; 3216 for Chandler; 2111 for McGee). 2111 is basically one season's worth of minutes for a regular. In terms of experience, McGee is more like a 2nd year player at this point. So, be of good cheer.

[dobrojim]

I'm not sure the question of how much JM may or may not improve
is necessarily related to his work ethic. If he knew how, he could do
it now. It's all upstairs which really doesn't have that much to do with
how hard he 'works' although I guess you could make the case for
off-court study of film etc. But what he needs is game experience
and a willingness to think about what he needs to do out there.

that said, any pro athlete should have a work ethic that is off
the charts if they wish to succeed.

[verbal8]

I like those Camby/Chandler/McGee comparisons. Through 2 seasons, McGee had better offensive and defensive rebounding percentages than Camby. A better ortg (by a lot). A nearly identical block%. Camby had a MUCH higher assist rate with a comparable turnover rate, suggesting a better hoops IQ.

Compared to Chandler, McGee was better on the offensive glass, worse on the defensive boards, had a better ortg, a better block% and a better turnover rate. Chandler was 2 years younger at the same stage in their careers, though.

Both guys played a bunch more minutes through their first 2 seasons than McGee did (3899 for Camby; 3216 for Chandler; 2111 for McGee). 2111 is basically one season's worth of minutes for a regular. In terms of experience, McGee is more like a 2nd year player at this point. So, be of good cheer.

Camby came into the league with expectations of being an all around star(2nd pick). His shot attempts were highest his rookie season. He became more valuable when he was traded to the Knicks and focused more on defense and took fewer shots.

[Hoopalotta]

I'm not sure the question of how much JM may or may not improve
is necessarily related to his work ethic. If he knew how, he could do
it now. It's all upstairs which really doesn't have that much to do with
how hard he 'works' although I guess you could make the case for
off-court study of film etc. But what he needs is game experience
and a willingness to think about what he needs to do out there.

that said, any pro athlete should have a work ethic that is off
the charts if they wish to succeed.

I totally agree; if he just improved at making reads/situational awareness and then with a bit of the old "me will break you", it'd be leaps and bounds. His skills are already pretty solid and look well practiced.

[TheGreatWall]

Great game by Javale. He's just a much better player at home. Away, he's just awful. Anyway, I'm rooting for the kid because I like him, but he needs to be more consistent.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

McGee tends to not get in foul truble at home. The key to his success IMO is going to be his ability to play significant minutes without fouls sending him to the bench. Tonight, McGee had 16 and 11 in 24:30. He only had 1 foul.

For the four games played so far in preseason, in 83 minutes Javale has grabbed 29 rebounds. He's grabbing 12.6 rrebounds per 36 minutes. That is excellent. McGee has scored 39 points in that time. His scoring is at 16.9 points per 36 minutes.

Like Yi Jianlian, so far McGee has bettered his career production numbers in preseason.

[verbal8]

McGee tends to not get in foul truble at home. The key to his success IMO is going to be his ability to play significant minutes without fouls sending him to the bench. Tonight, McGee had 16 and 11 in 24:30. He only had 1 foul.

I only saw the box score, but the most promising thing to me is 8 defensive rebounds.

[montestewart]

McGee tends to not get in foul truble at home. The key to his success IMO is going to be his ability to play significant minutes without fouls sending him to the bench. Tonight, McGee had 16 and 11 in 24:30. He only had 1 foul.

I only saw the box score, but the most promising thing to me is 8 defensive rebounds.

Pretty good defensive rebounding in general. All other things being the same, a rotation with three 7 footers at C and PF may get more RBs by default, but Yi snuck into the post several times, and McGee is just a long person, able to reach for the ball even when out of position. If he learns positioning, even just a little, I think he could easily make the kind of rebounding strides Chandler made after his second year,

[Hoopalotta]

I think everyone's base scoring numbers on the team are going to go down, except for McGee. Blatche's numbers would go down from the post deadline clip, not in total historic terms. We should have a nice spread attack, but "throw it to McGee" really has got to be up there on the totem pole hierarchy most nights.

At this point, I don't even mind if McGee comes off the bench as I'm thinking there's a lot of guy's who can get him the ball aside from Wall. Obviously it would be great if McGee took the starters slot, but I'm not as concerned about the formalities there.

[Zonkerbl]

I just hope McGee doesn't react to coming off the bench the way N1 and Blatche do. They stink off the bench. I don't know if it's moping or lack of adrenaline or what. McGee probably benefits from dialing it down a little bit.

[keynote]

Just as I thought. McGee's finessy, perimeter-oriented basketball identity was forged by his misguided-but-well-meaning mother. From WaPo Insider:

McGee admitted that he developed his ball-handling skills from his mother, Pam, a former Olympian and WNBA star. Pam McGee told her son that he couldn't just bank on being tall. "My mother always made me do ball-handling and all that because she was like, 'What if you stop growing?' Because I always kept growing, but she said, 'What if you stop growing? You're like 6-8. What do you going to do, be like a post man at 6-8? She always had ball-handling skills. In high school I used to go coast to coast all the time at 6-11."

Flip is obviously trying to marry those perimeter skill with the intensity, consistency, and fundamentals necessary to be a reliable defensive pivot in the NBA:

Coach Flip Saunders is aware of McGee's athleticism and skills, but he has always demanded more substance than style from McGee, who is a candidate for a SportsCenter Top 10 Play anytime he's out on the open floor. He has always searched for the right way to maximize McGee's talents and ability to change to course of the game.

"I thought JaVale did some very spectacular type things," Saunders said. "What I liked more about what he did, was his rebounding, how aggressive he was as far as rebounding. He's still got to work. He got put in the box a couple of times where he let guys back him in and just score over him. He's got to work on getting a little more resistance in the low block. But he played hard; he really played hard. The impressive thing is to be able to play hard for an extended period of time."

One issue: JaVale claims he still doesn't know what Flip wants from him:

McGee said that he is still unsure about what Saunders expects from him. "Truthfully, I don't understand what exactly what substance he wants. I'm trying to rebound so if that's the substance he wants then I'm going to try my best to do that the most but I don't understand, so I'm just trying to go for everything, offensively and defensively, even if it's not even my rebound. I've decided I just don't care. I'm just going to try to get as many rebounds as possible."

It's one thing to understand what the coach wants from you, but still be a few months/years away from being able to put it into action. But does JaVale truly not understand what is expected of him in Flip's offensive and defensive schemes? As has been noted by many, Flip has "dumbed" down the playbook this year. What is JaVale still not understanding?

1. Play hard on both ends.
2. Box out on both ends.
3. Maintain proper spacing and help-side rotations on defense.

If JaVale did those three things full-tilt every game, I'd wager that Flip would indulge him the occasional dipsy-do drive or ill-advised 20 foot jumper.

(edited for typos)

[nate33]

Just as I thought. McGee's finessy, perimeter-oriented basketball identify was forged by his misguided-but-well-meaning mother. From WaPo Insider:

McGee admitted that he developed his ball-handling skills from his mother, Pam, a former Olympian and WNBA star. Pam McGee told her son that he couldn't just bank on being tall. "My mother always made me do ball-handling and all that because she was like, 'What if you stop growing?' Because I always kept growing, but she said, 'What if you stop growing? You're like 6-8. What do you going to do, be like a post man at 6-8? She always had ball-handling skills. In high school I used to go coast to coast all the time at 6-11."

It's too bad she told him to practice ball-handling rather than shooting. Even if he only grew to be 6-8, it's much better to be a 6-8 lights out shooter rather than a 6-8 ball handler. There are very few big men who have made a career out of handling the ball.