john wall vs derrick rose

[Legendary 33]

This is coming from a Bulls fan who's also a HUGE Wall fan:

When Wall leads his team to the playoffs two years in a row, wins rookie of the year, becomes an all-star at 21, and wins a gold medal, than sure, we'll compare him to Derrick Rose. For now though, it isn't even close.

If Wall ends the year stat-padding on a lottery team, than it won't really mean much of anything. If he drags his team into the playoffs, like Rose did, than we can start talking. My whole point is, DON'T compare Wall right now to Rose right now. Rose is an established NBA star/rising superstar, while Wall has played 3 games.

If you want to compare Wall and Rose when they were both rookies, go right ahead. I'll be the first person to tell you that Wall is much farther ahead than Rose was at that time, primarily because of his aggressive mindset, whereas Rose was more passive.

[GhostsOfGil]

This is coming from a Bulls fan who's also a HUGE Wall fan:

When Wall leads his team to the playoffs two years in a row, wins rookie of the year, becomes an all-star at 21, and wins a gold medal, than sure, we'll compare him to Derrick Rose. For now though, it isn't even close.

If Wall ends the year stat-padding on a lottery team, than it won't really mean much of anything. If he drags his team into the playoffs, like Rose did, than we can start talking. My whole point is, DON'T compare Wall right now to Rose right now. Rose is an established NBA star/rising superstar, while Wall has played 3 games.

If you want to compare Wall and Rose when they were both rookies, go right ahead. I'll be the first person to tell you that Wall is much farther ahead than Rose was at that time, primarily because of his aggressive mindset, whereas Rose was more passive.

exactly. that was the point i was trying to make in the previous post

[Legendary 33]

Uh, Rose's team had the NINTH worst record in the league before drafted him but somehow lucked into getting the #1 pick. That team went to the playoffs the year prior. There was plenty of talent on that team. I can't believe people are actually playing up John Wall's team.

This is a pointless thing to argue, but your claim is ridiculous.

Wall's team has a former SUPERSTAR in Arenas and very, very solid players in Blatche, Martin, Hinrich etc.

The Bulls that year had a front court of Tyrus bonehead Thomas and Joakim Noah when he averaged 5 pts and 5 rbs a game.

Wall has a better team right now than Rose did his rookie season, and I don't even think it's close (unless you think BG > Arenas and Tyrus > Blatche )

Also, Rose had to take a backseat to Gordon/Deng, while Gilbert OPENLY said that he's the robin to Wall's batman. It was Wall's team from his first game, Rose had to wait two years.

The Wizards making the playoffs is actually very indicative to me of the Rose/Wall comparison

[Brenice]

[
as good on defense as wall has been, even with walls unbelievable amount of steals, rose has been better on defense. im not going to pretend like that matters all that much tho because defense from the pg is not the most vital thing in the world.

The "Glove" agrees with you.

And also, Wall is not just playing passing lanes, he is stripping the ball from random opponents on the court, in the paint. Taking the ball from someone is valuable because it creates 4 point swings. It's called a "stop".

[KING JAMES1978]

John Wall may be the next Jay Williams.

So you wish Wall have a career ending accident?You are not a good person if you wish that.

[Zeitgeister]

Uh, Rose's team had the NINTH worst record in the league before drafted him but somehow lucked into getting the #1 pick. That team went to the playoffs the year prior. There was plenty of talent on that team. I can't believe people are actually playing up John Wall's team.

This is a pointless thing to argue, but your claim is ridiculous.

Wall's team has a former SUPERSTAR in Arenas and very, very solid players in Blatche, Martin, Hinrich etc.

The Bulls that year had a front court of Tyrus bonehead Thomas and Joakim Noah when he averaged 5 pts and 5 rbs a game.

Wall has a better team right now than Rose did his rookie season, and I don't even think it's close (unless you think BG > Arenas and Tyrus > Blatche )

Also, Rose had to take a backseat to Gordon/Deng, while Gilbert OPENLY said that he's the robin to Wall's batman. It was Wall's team from his first game, Rose had to wait two years.

The Wizards making the playoffs is actually very indicative to me of the Rose/Wall comparison

Former superstar? The guy never even had a PER at 25 or above, I'm not so sure. He was pretty close, but he's not that player anymore and he's a headcase so I'm not sure how that is supposed to benefit John Wall.

You say that Rose had to take a back seat to Gordon and Deng, yet you also say he "dragged" them into the playoffs. Does that make any sense? I'm inclined to say no. The Bulls barely won over 40 games the year they made the playoffs, it was a 8 game win increase, from the year prior! Not to mention that team didn't really start to turn it around until Thabo Sefolusha and John Salmons were brought on board.

I also find it funny that you list having Kurt Hinrich as a positive when he was obviously on the same team as Derrick his rookie year, and I'm pretty sure most Bulls fans didn't like that they were on a team together.

It's the old "wins" argument rearing it's ugly head. I seem to remember this argument being used a lot in the Brandon Roy vs. Kevin Durant debates from a couple years ago.

[Johnny Firpo]

For the future, i'll take Wall, pretty easily, and my most important reason is court-vision, which cannot really be learned. You either have it, or don't. And Rose doesn't really have it. Wall does. He also has a very good chance to be a better defender later in their careers (heck, maybe he's already better). Right now, obviously, you have to go with Rose, he's the more established player, and i'd easily choose him for my Mavs, because he's a much better penetrator right now, and we'd need that.

[patagonia]

the only FACTS we can compare are rose's preseason, summer league and first 3 games of his rookie year vs walls preseason, sumer league, and first 3 games. now i think its safe to say wall wins that comparison by a landslide.

This is incredibly worthless. Anyone who thinks summer league and the first three games of one's career are valuable metrics by which to compare two players ought to have their entire opinion immediately discarded.

[ISB]

I think Wall is a better talent than Rose. Wall can do the same things that make Rose really good, yet his weaknesses are much less glaring.

I think Rose peaks as a 2nd tier star (Deron Williams, Brandon Roy level) whereas Wall has a chance to enter the top tier. (Thats not to say he definitely will, but I can certainly see it happening).

[GhostsOfGil]

the only FACTS we can compare are rose's preseason, summer league and first 3 games of his rookie year vs walls preseason, sumer league, and first 3 games. now i think its safe to say wall wins that comparison by a landslide.

This is incredibly worthless. Anyone who thinks summer league and the first three games of one's career are valuable metrics by which to compare two players ought to have their entire opinion immediately discarded.

...that was my point. its really hard to compare a 3 year vet to a rookie and the only statistics we have at hand are summer league games and 3 games of a regular season.

[Wade2k6]

I think Rose peaks as a 2nd tier star (Deron Williams, Brandon Roy level) whereas Wall has a chance to enter the top tier. (Thats not to say he definitely will, but I can certainly see it happening).

These are my exact thoughts.

[Chosen01]

I think Rose peaks as a 2nd tier star (Deron Williams, Brandon Roy level) whereas Wall has a chance to enter the top tier. (Thats not to say he definitely will, but I can certainly see it happening).

These are my exact thoughts.

Same. Wall has that potential.

[OJMayoMVP32]

Wall is very overrated, Derrick Rose is way better. He is putting up stats on a terrible team in his first month. That doesn't say much, obviously he very talented, but so are a lot of other top picks in these few drafts.

First month rookie stats

2008 class

Derrick Rose: 18.9 ppg 4.1 rpg 6.1 apg 49.6 % FG 36.8% 3pt 85.4% FT
OJ Mayo: 23.1 ppg 4.5 rebs 2.3 apg 48.0% FG 42.1% 3pt 88.5% FT

2009 class

Brandon Jennings: 22.1 ppg 3.8 rpg 5.6 apg 42% FG 49.3% 3pt 78.5% FT
Tyreke Evans: 20.3 ppg 5.5 rpg 5.1 apg 45.4% FG 36.0% 3pt 82.6 % FT

everyone of these 4 guys numbers decreased from their first month. That is what will happen to Wall also.

[Brenice]

His numbers will decrease some just by the fact Arenas will be playing, but then he can focus on running the offense more and defense. Both of those areas that he is already doing well at. John is not being overrated. Who would you like he be compared to? NBADRAFT.NET compared him to Rose. That is a comparison of what he can be like. Not what he is. He can be better than Rose. I did not say he IS better than Rose.

[Jvaughn]

You say that Rose had to take a back seat to Gordon and Deng, yet you also say he "dragged" them into the playoffs. Does that make any sense? I'm inclined to say no. The Bulls barely won over 40 games the year they made the playoffs, it was a 8 game win increase, from the year prior! Not to mention that team didn't really start to turn it around until Thabo Sefolusha and John Salmons were brought on board.

What the hell are you talking about? Thabo was on the team before Rose was there. And he's never been a part of the Bulls success. Salmons did help the team turn around. He tends to turn teams around for half seasons. I don't think he gets all the credit though. Rose, Gordon, and Salmons together were what turned the season around.

[Bomb_First]

Since Wall is and will the better player for the near future, I will go with him

[Zeitgeister]

You say that Rose had to take a back seat to Gordon and Deng, yet you also say he "dragged" them into the playoffs. Does that make any sense? I'm inclined to say no. The Bulls barely won over 40 games the year they made the playoffs, it was a 8 game win increase, from the year prior! Not to mention that team didn't really start to turn it around until Thabo Sefolusha and John Salmons were brought on board.

What the hell are you talking about? Thabo was on the team before Rose was there. And he's never been a part of the Bulls success. Salmons did help the team turn around. He tends to turn teams around for half seasons. I don't think he gets all the credit though. Rose, Gordon, and Salmons together were what turned the season around.

My bad on the Thabo thing, but there was someone else brought in with Salmons. Nevertheless, the thing I was arguing about was the "Derrick rose drug his team into the playoffs" when it was arguable whether he was even the best player on his team.

[Jvaughn]

You say that Rose had to take a back seat to Gordon and Deng, yet you also say he "dragged" them into the playoffs. Does that make any sense? I'm inclined to say no. The Bulls barely won over 40 games the year they made the playoffs, it was a 8 game win increase, from the year prior! Not to mention that team didn't really start to turn it around until Thabo Sefolusha and John Salmons were brought on board.

What the hell are you talking about? Thabo was on the team before Rose was there. And he's never been a part of the Bulls success. Salmons did help the team turn around. He tends to turn teams around for half seasons. I don't think he gets all the credit though. Rose, Gordon, and Salmons together were what turned the season around.

My bad on the Thabo thing, but there was someone else brought in with Salmons. Nevertheless, the thing I was arguing about was the "Derrick rose drug his team into the playoffs" when it was arguable whether he was even the best player on his team.

It was Brad Miller and Salmons that were brought in together.

No one put that team on their back single handedly. There was no one that was good enough at the time. It was a full team effort. Gordon will never be the type to carry a team, nor will Salmons. Rose was way too passive at the time to do so. Because of this they all had to work together to bring that team to that point. I will give you that Salmons was a big spark that ignited our run though.

[j-smooth]

To give Rose all the credit for getting the Bulls in the playoffs his rookie year would be a mistake. Gordon Miller and Salmons played huge roles for that Bulls team. 

But last year there was no doubt Rose CARRIED the Bulls to the playoffs. 

I'd take Rose 24/7 365 day a year over Wall. But that's cause I'm a Chicagoan til Chicago ends. If I weren't from Chicago I would be more inclined to pick Wall. But I like the fact that we have a homegrown talent leading our basketball team.

[alucryts]

im excited to go to their first matchup next weekend