Shaq/Wade vs. TD/Kobe

[Shaq Daddy]

So Kobe has all these post moves, and is the better shooter but his two best shooting years happen to be Wade's worst shooting years.

Let's see yall spin those facts.

Wade scores the majority of his baskets as high percentage shots around the rim...

it's really not hard to understand.

where is your avatar from

[llllllllllllll]

is Wade a jumpshooter now?
or is he to the rim first giving him the edge in FG%
but you knew that, thats basic basketball knowledge

So you prefer a not as effective jump shooter over an extremely efficient slasher who teams can't keep outta the paint ?

Gimmie the guy that creates easier shots for himself 365/24/7.

Basketball 101.

[Vincent 666]

So now, are you going to accept Phil Jackson's words as credible? If you do, then you pretty much fail on most of the things you defend!

The same Phil jackson who said that the reason Shaq didnt get the ball more in the 04 finals was because of conditioning issues and Shaq not fighting for position?

That Phil Jackson?

Oh wait.........Jacksons word is only gospel when it can be interpreted as something negative towards Bryant right :lo

[Shaq Daddy]

is Wade a jumpshooter now?
or is he to the rim first giving him the edge in FG%
but you knew that, thats basic basketball knowledge

So you prefer a not as effective jump shooter over an extremely efficient slasher who teams can't keep outta the paint ?

Gimmie the guy that creates easier shots for himself 365/24/7.

Basketball 101.

And that depends on what team/system you have.

Look at the Heat right now... fail

[SDChargers#1]

Wade is not as good as Kobe (if we are talking about primes), it's pretty simple.

Wade does one thing better than prime Kobe, and that is get to the rim. Kobe is literally better at every other aspect of the game. And LOL at comparing FG%. Compare the TS% of the 2 and you will see they are remarkably even.

And another people love to ignore is toughness. Kobe is arguably the toughest player in the league and has played through countless injuries in his career. Wade has the slightest thing happen to him and he is sitting out. The guy has never played 82 games in his career and has missed more than 20 games in a season 3 times in his career. Kobe has missed 20 games or more....wait NEVER.

And I also love the whole "let's compare their final stats" argument. First, Kobe finals numbers are not that bad. If you take out his injury game in his first title, Kobe has a 25/5/5 average in the finals (and he has played against the 3 top defensive champions of maybe all time). Yes, Wade had a dominating finals against Dallas, but Dallas was not very good on defense, and Kobe put up 62 in 3 quarters against Dallas earlier in the year, are you telling me that Kobe wouldn't have averaged 40 against Dallas that year?

With all this said, Wade is a great player, and is on pace to be one of the best of all time. But he is clearly a level below Kobe.

[Vincent 666]

And I also love the whole "let's compare their final stats" argument.

I always love that argument.

Bryants gone up against teams who have arguably been some of the best defensive teams in the history of the league. Wade went up against a team whom Bryant outscored through 3 quarters by himself that very same year. Yeah fair comparisons

[Shaq Daddy]

Wade is not as good as Kobe (if we are talking about primes), it's pretty simple.

Wade does one thing better than prime Kobe, and that is get to the rim. Kobe is literally better at every other aspect of the game. And LOL at comparing FG%. Compare the TS% of the 2 and you will see they are remarkably even.

And another people love to ignore is toughness. Kobe is arguably the toughest player in the league and has played through countless injuries in his career. Wade has the slightest thing happen to him and he is sitting out. The guy has never played 82 games in his career and has missed more than 20 games in a season 3 times in his career. Kobe has missed 20 games or more....wait NEVER.

And I also love the whole "let's compare their final stats" argument. First, Kobe finals numbers are not that bad. If you take out his injury game in his first title, Kobe has a 25/5/5 average in the finals (and he has played against the 3 top defensive champions of maybe all time). Yes, Wade had a dominating finals against Dallas, but Dallas was not very good on defense, and Kobe put up 62 in 3 quarters against Dallas earlier in the year, are you telling me that Kobe wouldn't have averaged 40 against Dallas that year?

With all this said, Wade is a great player, and is on pace to be one of the best of all time. But he is clearly a level below Kobe.

Sums up everything.... good job

[Vincent 666]

Sure did know that. And at the time, I was finding every excuse for Kobe that I could. But did you also realize that it wasn't the caucasian that produced the tears in the rectum? That was done by Kobe.

as usual you have your facts wrong.

So because a girl threw herself at Kobe, that gave him the right to force her into anal sex? Let me guess- she deserved it, right??

you're coming to conclusions based on premises that simply arent true. Typical with your logic.

Shaq never said "I'll stay if I get to be 1st fiddle". He said "I'll make it work because I think we can still win titles". And I didn't say anything. Phil Jackson said it, and to me, he knows a little more about what went on that any of you!

so what if Shaq said it. Actions speak louder than words.

but you defend Kobe who refused to sign with the Lakers if Shaq was there because he was "tired of being a sidekick". 2 faced, anyone????

And why did Kobe feel that way?

yeah im sure it had nothing to do with the childlike jealousy shaq had toward Brynat his whole career dropping snide remarks about Bryant since Kobes rookie year.

Bottom line is that both were at fault for the breakup but I blame Shaq more for the way he handled his relationship with kobe from the start of Kobes career.

So now, even though Shaq admitted he would make it work with Kobe, you KNOW better than he did? You are absolutely POSITIVE that he didn't want to play with Kobe??? Great. Kobe fans are now claiming to know more than Shaq about what Shaq feels!!! That's a new one. Maybe he didn't "want" to play, but he was still WILLING to for the sake of winningKobe wasn't even WILLING. And he never said a word about "Shaq calling him out", or "Shaq not working hard in the offseason". My friends, out of his own mouth, it was because he was "tired of being a sidekick". Go ahead and try to justify it if you like. But at the end of the day, the factys remain that Shaq was willing to make it work for the sake of winning, and Kobe was NOT. You can't justify it. Those are the facts as laid forth by Shaq, Phil Jackson, and Kobe Bean Bryant himself!!!

Once again, telling Bryant to leave his team if he didnt like how things are being run is not trying to make things work out.

So now, getting to the finals a few times makes up for everything he did? Do you think Kate Faber gives a rat's ass how many game winners he hit? Or how many finals he's been to???

Do you think that any fan in 2005 cared how many points he scored? Because he could have had a fully healthy and motivated Shaq, a healthy Malone, Phil Jackson coaching him, and some decent role players.

yeah that was all Bryants fault

The level of revision of history is amazing.

Instead, he had to watch from his couch Shaq put up an MVP season and get to the ECF (and finals if not for Wade's rib) and win the title the next year. Do you think that REAL Laker fans weren't phased when they heard that Kobe demanded a trade because after getting his way, he couldn't win???

and Shaq has had to watch a player whom he wanted to leave his team, win more titles wihout him than hes won without Bryant.

For all you guys' squawking about how ridiculous it is to defend Shaq for "all his transgressions", you delusional Kobe fans are the ones with the skewed sense of reality. It isn't us Shaq fans claiming to know better than Kobe himself about what Kobe thinks!

No poster here hates on Shaq the way you and your brother anderso hate on Kobe.

[llllllllllllll]

LMFAO@ Kobe averaging 40 points on anybody in the Finals.

How you gonna tell me that when Kobe, in all of his Finals games combined has as many of those performances (40 point games) as Wade had in his lone Finals appearence.

Two.

GTFOH with that man.

[kasino]

Uh yea imma take that jump shooter when he hits daggers and close out games the way he does
and easier shots? i guess.
Kobe catch and shoot he could do that all game put the defender in the post and his great footwork doesn't take much effort
Wade has to dribble past defenders get into the big and risk injury every basket. not complaining its snazzy.
now you understand it really comes down Kobe takes 1 more attempt than Wade per game?
that huge leap in efficiency isn't what you want it to be
but i don't downgrade accomplishments win goes to Wad....kinda

[Vincent 666]

LMFAO@ Kobe averaging 40 points on anybody in the Finals.

How you gonna tell me that when Kobe, in all of his Finals games combined has as many of those performances (40 point games) as Wade had in his lone Finals appearence.

Different competition.

Why is it so outside the realmn of possibility to you that Kobe averages over 40 against a team whom he outscored through 3 quarters?

[llllllllllllll]

LMFAO@ Kobe averaging 40 points on anybody in the Finals.

How you gonna tell me that when Kobe, in all of his Finals games combined has as many of those performances (40 point games) as Wade had in his lone Finals appearence.

Different competition.

Why is it so outside the realmn of possibility to you that Kobe averages over 40 against a team whom he outscored through 3 quarters?

I like to wait till things actually happen before I give credit to it.

And 60 through 3 is nice. Wade once had 53 through 3 himself but came out in the 4th dishing the ball out and had like 2-3 assist.

[Vincent 666]

LMFAO@ Kobe averaging 40 points on anybody in the Finals.

How you gonna tell me that when Kobe, in all of his Finals games combined has as many of those performances (40 point games) as Wade had in his lone Finals appearence.

Different competition.

Why is it so outside the realmn of possibility to you that Kobe averages over 40 against a team whom he outscored through 3 quarters?

I like to wait till things actually happen before I give credit to it.

And 60 through 3 is nice. Wade once had 53 through 3 himself but came out in the 4th dishing the ball out and had like 2-3 assist.

Yeah but you're comparing finals stats as if both played against the same teams.

[ItsMillerTime]

IMO the weakest player here is Shaq. He is the only one not in the top 30 alltime. TD and Kobe are both top 10 players, whereas Wade is borderline top 40, and Shaq is borderline top 50

[Blackfyre]

LMFAO@ Kobe averaging 40 points on anybody in the Finals.

How you gonna tell me that when Kobe, in all of his Finals games combined has as many of those performances (40 point games) as Wade had in his lone Finals appearence.

Different competition.

Why is it so outside the realmn of possibility to you that Kobe averages over 40 against a team whom he outscored through 3 quarters?

I like to wait till things actually happen before I give credit to it.

And 60 through 3 is nice. Wade once had 53 through 3 himself but came out in the 4th dishing the ball out and had like 2-3 assist.

Kobe also scored 56 points without playing a second in 4th and dished out 4 assist (in 2001). Then 2 years later against Nuggets he scored 51 in 3Q while having 2 assists (played only 31 minutes). So this 63p in 3Q wasn't the first and only time when he went nuts like that. Kobe has always been more capable for high scoring runs than Wade (if needed). Obviously Wade has the most impressive finals series between the two but only few can say they have done better than him.

[SDChargers#1]

LMFAO@ Kobe averaging 40 points on anybody in the Finals.

How you gonna tell me that when Kobe, in all of his Finals games combined has as many of those performances (40 point games) as Wade had in his lone Finals appearence.

Two.

GTFOH with that man.

I'm not going to take anything away from Wade's finals performance. It was amazing, one of the best ever.

But you keep ignoring who he was playing. Kobe has been to the finals 7 times, and EVERY SINGLE TIME, he played a defense that was WAY better than that Mavericks team. As I said, Kobe put up 62 in 3 quarters against THAT VERY MAVERICKS TEAM. It isn't out of comprehension to imagine Kobe dominating them in a finals series.

Is it a guarantee? No, but Kobe would have definitely had his greatest finals performance ever if he had the luxury of playing the Mavs in the finals.

[SDChargers#1]

LMFAO@ Kobe averaging 40 points on anybody in the Finals.

How you gonna tell me that when Kobe, in all of his Finals games combined has as many of those performances (40 point games) as Wade had in his lone Finals appearence.

Different competition.

Why is it so outside the realmn of possibility to you that Kobe averages over 40 against a team whom he outscored through 3 quarters?

I like to wait till things actually happen before I give credit to it.

And 60 through 3 is nice. Wade once had 53 through 3 himself but came out in the 4th dishing the ball out and had like 2-3 assist.

Ahh, you mean like Kobe WINNING 5 championships to Wade's 1?

Or Kobe's 8 All NBA 1st teams to Wade's 2?
Or Kobe's 8 All 1st Team Defense to Wade's 0?
Or Kobe's 2 scoring titles to Wade's 1?
Or Kobe's toughness that has allowed him to play max games 4 times in his career to Wade's 0?
Or Kobe's toughness to never miss 20 or more games in his career to Wade's 3?

Yea, I agree let's WAIT AND SEE what happens

[jaypo]

Vincent- if I pay you, would you just leave? It's kinda irritating saying the same things over and over again only to have you try to justify them in Kobe's favor.

Can you show me where Phil said that Shaq couldn't get more touches because of conditioning? Also, if he couldn't get position, it wouldn't be because he was defended by the DPOY, would it? How did Kobe do with Tayshaun Prince covering him BTW??? And he was in superior condition.

"So what if Shaq said it". I post a statement made by the player, and you think you know better than the player. A prime example of a jabronie claiming to know more about Shaq than Shaq himself. How do you even think you have a shred of credibility left???

Uh, Kobe felt that way maybe because of the exact statement that I posted! He couldn't handle the fact that he would not win it on his own terms. It had nothing to do with Shaq being "a big ole' meanie". It had to do with Kobe not being able to handle the fact that he wasn't the man!!! You CANNOT argue it. It came out of his own damn mouth! Do you know more about Kobe than Kobe does????

Shaq told Kobe to "opt out if you don't like it" AFTER Kobe said he was opting out, and in direct response to Kobe not accepting his role as 2nd option AS DESIGNATED BY HIS COACH. He was going against his coach's wishes. And Shaq called him on it in response to Kobe's statements.

Revising history by stating a hypothetical situation? No, my friend. I'm saying that he could have resigned, Shaq was still under contract, and I'm sure Malone and Payton would have come back for a chance at a ring. Not 100% sure, but it could have happened if everything fell into place. How the hell is stating something that COULD have happened revising history?

Kobe did win more on his own that Shaq did without Kobe. But I'd be it hurt Kobe more watching Shaq win his 4th less than 24 months after being traded. As a matter of fact, I'm sure it did because Kobe was whining about being traded! And judging by his butthurt comments after this year's finals (where he shot 6 for 24 in game 7, BTW), he still is butthurt! And he will be again after Shaq lifts his 5th on the Garden floor after spanking the Lakers! (If the Lakers make it that far!)

Dude, everyone in any Kobe related thread hates on Shaq. And I don't hate on Kobe. Please tell me where I hate on Kobe. Oh. That's right. Any time somebody posts anything less than praise for Kobe, it's "hate". Right. By quoting his own words, it shows hate, right? My friend, I don't need to hate on Kobe. He earned that kind of stuff by the things he did. Or, to use your terminology, "actions speak louder than words". I have no feelings for him other than pity.

[Chosen01]

Kudos for comparing one's accomplishments who has been in the league 14 years to another who's been in the league 7 years.

And I guess Wade was supposed to be playing through a dislocated shoulder, because you only the tougher plays can.. /sarcasm

[jaypo]

LMFAO@ Kobe averaging 40 points on anybody in the Finals.

How you gonna tell me that when Kobe, in all of his Finals games combined has as many of those performances (40 point games) as Wade had in his lone Finals appearence.

Two.

GTFOH with that man.

I'm not going to take anything away from Wade's finals performance. It was amazing, one of the best ever.

But you keep ignoring who he was playing. Kobe has been to the finals 7 times, and EVERY SINGLE TIME, he played a defense that was WAY better than that Mavericks team. As I said, Kobe put up 62 in 3 quarters against THAT VERY MAVERICKS TEAM. It isn't out of comprehension to imagine Kobe dominating them in a finals series.

Is it a guarantee? No, but Kobe would have definitely had his greatest finals performance ever if he had the luxury of playing the Mavs in the finals.

Yeah, that Nets team was friggin' outstanding! Or was it the 76ers?