Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

[LyricalRico]

sorry i am not trading away any athletic young seven footers with the ability to improve their basketball IQ's.

Agreed, but what does that have to do with Blatche/McGee?

[Hoopalotta]

An endorsement of the Bobcats? Have we come to that? Something about mangling the cap to where trading Tyson Chandler for Matt Carrol, Jason Richardson for Raja Bell and Boris Diaw while letting Ray-Ray walk for free sounds sagacious? Then we watch each of those guys have huge impacts elsewhere while paying Desagana his $7 million a year? How about we just whiff on about 80% of our draft picks for good measure and make a low seed playoff loss a strategic goal?

Let's speak plainly here - MJ has literally been so bad that if we went to the Cats board and started praising his work they'd think we were being sarcastic trolls.

[507Mack]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18309

" After suspending Andray Blatche and JaVale McGee one game for an altercation outside of a club, league sources say that the Washington Wizards will consider trading either Blatche or McGee in the coming weeks. The team will gauge interest around the league and after shopping the players, decision whether or not a trade would be the right move for the franchise."

This "shopping" of McGee and Blatche scares me. I hope Ernie realizes that he still has two young, athletic bigs with a ton of potential. We deserve to get more than just expiring contracts or picks. We made the mistake of trading away Webber, I hope history doesn't repeat itself.

[DMVleGeND]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18309

" After suspending Andray Blatche and JaVale McGee one game for an altercation outside of a club, league sources say that the Washington Wizards will consider trading either Blatche or McGee in the coming weeks. The team will gauge interest around the league and after shopping the players, decision whether or not a trade would be the right move for the franchise."

This "shopping" of McGee and Blatche scares me. I hope Ernie realizes that he still has two young, athletic bigs with a ton of potential. We deserve to get more than just expiring contracts or picks. We made the mistake of trading away Webber, I hope history doesn't repeat itself.

+1

If Grunfeld does this trade without getting equal-better value in return, I will calling for his head. I think the fight has kind of made Ernie feel like he's obligated to do it, but he shouldn't be. The fight wasn't that big of a deal to me, and it's definitely isn't worth giving up 2 promising big men over. If we do end up trading them, we better get a young big man w/potential(somebody not named Thabeet), or a young wing w/potential, and/or 1st-round picks. Many people have been patient with Ernie this season, including me, but if he trades both of them without getting equal value for them, I'll send a hitman to kill him.

[AceDegenerate]

Here's 2 realistic Ernie trades that everyone should be very afraid of.

Wizards trade:

PF Andray Blatche

Timberwolves trade:

PG Sebastian Telfair
SF Corey Brewer


Wizards trade:

C JaVale McGee
PF Yi Jianlian

Grizzlies trade:

C Hasheem Thabeet

[MF23]

Ernie better not trade JaVale McGee.

[MF23]

DP

[Black Eyed Sooz]

Ernie better not trade JaVale McGee.

I agree- with the exception of a Blake Griffin deal, or maybe a Cousins or Favors type deal.

In reality (unless there is something sinister that JaVale is involved in that hasn't hit the presses yet), I'd be shocked to see him go. Blatche, on the other hand- I'd be surprised if he is NOT dealt. I see this as a little like the Gilbert situation: a talented but flawed player with injury issues, a repeat offender with serious off-court incidents, a bad, soft defensive player, and a guy with enough seniority and alpha dog influence to be a negative for the whole locker room environment.

I'd like to see us do a deal like Blatche for Greg Oden- but probably the Blazers would rather take a shot on Oden getting healthy over Blatche growing up... Probably the more likely deal would be something like Blatche for Duhon and Daniel Orton, which they've probably already discussed with the Magic.

[DMVleGeND]

Ernie better not trade JaVale McGee.

I agree- with the exception of a Blake Griffin deal, or maybe a Cousins or Favors type deal.

In reality (unless there is something sinister that JaVale is involved in that hasn't hit the presses yet), I'd be shocked to see him go. Blatche, on the other hand- I'd be surprised if he is NOT dealt. I see this as a little like the Gilbert situation: a talented but flawed player with injury issues, a repeat offender with serious off-court incidents, a bad, soft defensive player, and a guy with enough seniority and alpha dog influence to be a negative for the whole locker room environment.

I'd like to see us do a deal like Blatche for Greg Oden- but probably the Blazers would rather take a shot on Oden getting healthy over Blatche growing up... Probably the more likely deal would be something like Blatche for Duhon and Daniel Orton, which they've probably already discussed with the Magic.

No to Oden. He's a very good player when healthy, but there's one problem, he's NEVER healthy. He can still be a good player if he shakes the injury bug, but I'm not sure he ever will shake it. I'd rather go after him in free agency then trade anyone for him. If Portland doesn't resign him and we can sign him cheap, I'm all for it.

No to Orton and Duhon also. Orton has bad knees and he's not very good. Duhon sucks too.

[rockymac52]

I think it's too early to trade McGee, unless it's actually a great trade that brings in a top notch prospect or an established stud. I don't see that happening though.

I agree that if one of the two are to be traded, it's going to be Blatche. He's the last guy left from our troubled past. McGee's only been here 2.5 years, he's still seen almost as a rookie or sophomore, he hasn't fallen into the laziness and bad-teammate ways of Blatche and the rest of the now former Wizards core.

I'm afraid we won't get anything of value for Blatche, however. He just signed the extension, and while I think it's a very reasonable, and in fact, GOOD deal money/value wise, I think other teams may be wary of its length. I simply can't imagine Blatche on a winning team. I can see him as a 3rd option on the Pacers, but let's be honest, the 7 and 8 seeds in the East this year are not real playoff teams. Maybe it's a result of the recent Webber mention, but I can see Blatche (and McGee for that matter) fitting in well in Sacramento. Talented roster, still young, still improving, nobody's guaranteed to be part of the future (except Evans I suppose). I dunno, it just seems like it'd fit.

The Kings have been adamant about not shipping Cousins away yet, but a part of me is getting excited about the possibility of Cousins and Wall on the same team. I don't even think they're best friends or anything just because they played together for one year, but they clearly worked well together on the court, and that would give us a very talented PG and C to build around for the long term future of the franchise. I think if they both develop into the allstars we expect them to be, that's a reallllly dangerous team in the making. Add in our top 10, maybe top 5 or better, 1st round pick this year, and we're looking at a third force. Sullinger, Jones, Jones, Kanter, Barnes, off the top of my head all excite me a lot. A line up of Wall/DimeaDozenSG(Nick Young?)/Howard(or other veteran SF)/Perry Jones/Cousins could be straight up filthy in a few years. Hell, forget Perry Jones, let's get Terrence Jones and just create a superteam of Kentucky's finest.

I feel like I'm talking about a dream/fantasy scenario right now. But then again, we already have Wall. We're going to have a top 10 pick this year from the looks of things, possibly top 5 or better. That takes care of the 3rd quality player. All we have to do is get Cousins. Can we put together a package to get Cousins? Maybe the Kings aren't ready to trade him away just yet, but that time may come soon. I'd be willing to part ways with both McGee and Blatche in order to get it done. Cousins is risky because of his attitude and work ethic, but I think it's a risk worth taking. And if we reunite him with Wall and make it clear that it's their team, I think he'd be re-energized and could play up to his potential.

I completely forgot what I was talking about at the start of this post, and I'm sorry if you've read all the way through my stream of consciousness. But hopefully I've convinced you that acquiring Cousins could be the deal we need to become a studly franchise in the near future...?

Oh and once we have the Wall/Cousins/2011 draft pick core, we let them play and run for a season as they develop and gel. Maybe we win more maybe we don't. Maybe we luck out and get another lotto pick in 2012 who can contribute. And then we have plenty of cap space in the offseason of 2012. The three aforementioned players as well as the new 2012 rookie(s) will still be on their rookie contracts. We have tons of cap space and a young and extremely talented core. Maybe the stars align and we bring in an elite free agent or hell, even just an allstar caliber free agent!?

I think I'm dreaming.

[nate33]

Under the category of: It's Better than Nothing, how about trading Blatche or Varejao? The money is comparable and Cleveland is presumably interested in getting younger.

Varejao just turned 28 but he has just 10,000 minutes under his belt (Blatche has 7000). My gut tells me it's a bad move because Varajeo is 8 years older than our one true building block. But on the other hand, this team would be a probably playoff contender almost immediately with a lineup of Wall, Young, Howard, Lewis and Varajeo; with Hinrich, Thornton, Booker and McGee off the bench.

Maybe it would make sense at the Trade Deadline after we have piled up enough losses to ensure a mid-lotto pick. (It would be even better to do in the offseason, but I don't think Cleveland is going to wait that long to blow up the team.) If we made the deal and still remained in position to grab Sullinger, we'd be in pretty good shape going forward.

For the record, I'm not particularly interested in trading Blatche at all, because I don't think it's possible to get back a young (sub 25) player who projects to be a quality starter. But if Blatche must go, this deal seems like a pretty decent return.

I guess it all depends upon your rebuilding philosophy. Do you just tank for years and years until you've accumulated a ton of talent (like Atlanta did); or do you get one stud and then try to get good quick before a losing culture establishes roots (like Utah did)?

[507Mack]

Under the category of: It's Better than Nothing, how about trading Blatche or Varejao? The money is comparable and Cleveland is presumably interested in getting younger.

Weird. Me and my friend were just talking this morning about low-post defenders in the NBA that are comparable to Charles Oakley (decent mid-range, defensive-minded rebounder, annoying to the opposition). Guys like Oakley, Haslem, Kurt Thomas are an endangered species, as a close look at the top rebounders in the NBA, none of them have that intimidation/ "enforcer" mentality. It's kinda sad. We settled on Varejao being the closest guy currenlty in the NBA to fit that mold (in terms of rebounding and being annoying, definitely not intimidating).

[507Mack]

Under the category of: It's Better than Nothing, how about trading Blatche or Varejao? The money is comparable and Cleveland is presumably interested in getting younger.

Weird. Me and my friend were just talking this morning about low-post defenders in the NBA that are comparable to Charles Oakley (decent mid-range, defensive-minded rebounder, annoying to the opposition). Guys like Oakley, Haslem, Kurt Thomas are an endangered species, as a close look at the top rebounders in the NBA, none of them have that intimidation/ "enforcer" mentality. It's kinda sad. We settled on Varejao being the closest guy currenlty in the NBA to fit that mold (in terms of rebounding and being annoying, definitely not intimidating).

[LyricalRico]

Blatche for Verajao? Of course I'm in. But I would think that Cleveland would have to move Jamison and/or Hickson first.

[MF23]

I like Verajo. I like the idea of him playing next to McGee. Those two together would be a long, energetic front court. His contract gives me hesitation but I think he would fit in well with this team. He has a team option and that seals the deal for me.

That is a productive trade.

The Wizards would be banking in on McGee developing a post game because Anderson will never be a reliable scoring option. Offensively, McGee shows good instincts but he definitely lacks polish. Has it been discussed that Kevin McHale makes perfect sense to work with McGee in the offseason? For several reason that appears to be the way to go with him.

[rockymac52]

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=5788921

Wizards Send: JaVale McGee + Andray Blatche + Kirk Hinrich + 2011 2nd round pick
Wizards Receive: DeMarcus Cousins + TJ Ford + Pacers 2011 1st round pick (lottery protected)

Kings Send: DeMarcus Cousins + Darnell Jackson
Kings Receive: JaVale McGee + Kirk Hinrich + Paul George + Wizards 2011 2nd round pick

Pacers Send: TJ Ford + Paul George + 2011 1st round pick (lottery protected)
Pacers Receive: Andray Blatche + Darnell Jackson



New Wizards Lineup:
PG: Wall/Ford
SG: Young/Martin
SF: Howard/Thornton
PF: Lewis/Booker/Yi
C: Cousins/Armstrong/Seraphin

New Kings Lineup:
PG: Hinrich/Udrih
SG: Evans(if healthy)/Garcia/Head
SF: Casspi/Greene/George
PF: Landry/Thompson
C: McGee/Dalembert

New Pacers Lineup:
PG: Collison/Price
SG: Rush/Dunleavy/Jones
SF: Granger/Posey
PF: Blatche/McRoberts/Hansbrough
C: Hibbert/Jones/Foster



Why for the Wizards?
Reunite Cousins with Wall, the two will be a dynamic duo in the future. Acquire an additional draft pick in the middle of the 1st round. Wizards are sick of Blatche's attitude and laziness. Although they haven't given up on McGee yet, they recognize that now is the time to cash in, because in a year or two if he hasn't taken a step to the next level, he's no longer a valuable trade asset. Upgrade to Cousins makes it easy to say goodbye to McGee. Again, this is all about creating a core of Wall and Cousins. A top ten, and very possibly top five draft pick will be added to be another key young piece in the new Wizards. They will also still have plenty of cap room for the 2012 offseason, in which they have the ability to add a top notch free agent. This trade essentially is how the Wizards envision transitioning into a young team with the talent in place to develop into a lethal crew in the very near future. Ford is merely included to backup Wall or fill in if he's injured after Hinrich is lost in the deal. He expires this year and is likely not a part of Washington's future plans.

Why for the Kings?
Kings trade their troubled prospect at center for another prospect at center in McGee. McGee may not have as much talent and upside as Cousins, but he certainly doesn't have the attitude issues. They also receive an additional young threat on the wing in Paul George. George would currently be buried on the depth chart, but in the future he may warrant more playing time. Addition of Hinrich is key in that they get a more traditional PG who is a capable defender, unlike Udrih. If Evans opts for season ending surgery, there will be a large hole to fill in the backcourt. Hinrich and Udrih are both capable of playing PG as well as SG. They also add another pick early in the second round. Despite adding to their payroll next season, they still will be well under the cap.

Why for the Pacers?
Simply put, they get the starting caliber PF they so desperately need. They won't miss Ford at all, as he's only their backup PG, and he's known for being a me-first guy. Collison can handle most of the minutes at the point, and Price is a capable backup. Although they just drafted George, he plays the same position as Granger, and just doesn't seem to fit. Even if he develops, I don't know where they see him getting his minutes. Jackson is mostly filler, but he's another young big body, which can't hurt I suppose. Draft pick is lotto protected just in case things fall apart in Indiana or if Blatche just doesn't fit in. Blatche is signed to a reasonable long term deal, and won't stop the Pacers from having plenty of cap space this offseason.


Overall I think fans from each team will be split on whether or not their respective team would pull the trigger. Some Kings fans are ready to see Cousins go, some recognize his talent and want to be patient. I'm sure some Wizards fans won't want to deal with the headcase that Cousins is and may be in the future. And I'm sure that some Pacers fans aren't big fans of Blatche and don't think he's any better than what they've got (but I assure you, he's a huge upgrade). I'm curious to see what you guys think about this.

[nate33]

I'd rather take my chances on McGee panning out than Cousins. Hoopalotta stated it well a while back, Cousins is terrible defensively and looks like he will always be a terrible help defender. Those kinds of players never win in this league. Your center absolutely must be a good help defender or you are toast. At best, Cousins pans out to be the current incarnation of Kevin Love - a stat stuffer on a losing team. And that's the best-case scenario. There's lots of worse scenarios.

[rockymac52]

I dunno, I'm more skeptical of McGee coming around and being a defensive force.

Think about it, entering the 2012-2013 season, our lineup could be:

PG: Wall/Hinrich (resigned for $4-5 million?)
SG: Young/Pacers 2011 1st round pick
SF: Lewis/2012 1st round pick
PF: Sullinger/Booker
C: Cousins/Seraphin

If you'd prefer we not resign Hinrich and go a different route, we could sign an aging point guard or combo guard to come off the bench. Maybe Jason Terry, Mike Bibby, Chauncey Billups (depends how much he falls off), or Baron Davis.

Or we could opt for a younger PG with fresh legs, either via one of our 2nd round picks or one of the unidentified 1st rounders I put in at SG and SF.

Here's where I project our cap situation roughly in 2012-2013:
Wall $6 million
Young $5 million (assuming we extend him, I'm just using $5 million because I don't think he'll end up getting any more than that)
Lewis $10 million (his last year is only guaranteed $10 million)
Booker $1.5 million
Seraphin $1.5 million
Cousins $4 million
Sullinger $4 million (estimation)
2011 Pacers 1st round pick $1.5 million (estimation)
2012 Wizards 1st round pick $2 million (estimation)

That's 9 guys on our active roster making a total of $35.5 million by my very rough estimates. Obviously there's no telling what will happen with the new CBA, but for reference, the current salary cap is roughly $58 million. If that's still the figure two years from now (it won't be, but let's pretend), then the Wizards would have about $22 million in cap space. That's a max contract and then another quality rotation player. Or two real solid players. I projected up above spending $4-5 million on Hinrich, or another PG/SG to backup Wall. That's incredibly conservative. We could pay Hinrich $5 million a year to be the backup PG and get some spot minutes at SG. And then we could still afford a near max contract player to add onto that already great core!

Here's some big name unrestricted free agents in 2012:
Kevin Garnett, Gerald Wallace, Antawn Jamison, Jason Terry, Chauncey Billups, Baron Davis, Chris Kaman, Andrew Bynum, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Andre Miller, Deron Williams.

Plenty of those guys will be resigned by their current teams. Some might not have any talent left at that point in their career. Some might not want to come to DC. Some might not fit on our team because they're star point guards. But those are just some options. There's more solid role players that will be unrestricted as well. Not to mention there's always the possibility of getting a restricted free agent, and there are numerous attractive options there.

And let's say we don't get any big name free agent... go back up to the top of my post and look at the depth chart I posted there. That's without the big free agent. That's still a damn good team.

This is the way the Wizards become a true championship contender in less than 3 years. And they'd be built as well as you can possibly imagine for the future. It's actually too good to be true.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

An endorsement of the Bobcats? Have we come to that? Something about mangling the cap to where trading Tyson Chandler for Matt Carrol, Jason Richardson for Raja Bell and Boris Diaw while letting Ray-Ray walk for free sounds sagacious? Then we watch each of those guys have huge impacts elsewhere while paying Desagana his $7 million a year? How about we just whiff on about 80% of our draft picks for good measure and make a low seed playoff loss a strategic goal?

Let's speak plainly here - MJ has literally been so bad that if we went to the Cats board and started praising his work they'd think we were being sarcastic trolls.

All I recall is the Bobcats in the playoffs with less payroll than the 26-56 Wizards.

For all his mistakes, Capt Jack got CHA in the playoffs. They had a stifling defense.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

One guy who had won at every level (HS, US Jr National team, NCAA ) had such a good background I predicted when SA drafted him he could help them win a championship appears to be capable.

Blair had 15 and 17 in a strong win over the Lakers, with Bynum and Gasol playing, as well as Odom. Blair is just 20 years old. Passing up on him in round two was much worse than trading the fifth pick.