Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour)

[ClarenceDerozan]

Interesting deal.

[Reignman]

I hate Bibby, but I also hate the idea of paying Jose $20M for the next 2 seasons after this.
I doubt we're getting Zaza, he's a pretty key piece for them.

Not under Larry Drew. Josh Powell averages more minutes than Zaza.

Didn't even check the numbers.

In that case, maybe we can get Zaza. I think he could even start and push Bargs to the 4.

Bargs can't guard 4s and Zaza isn't a good enough defender to make up for it while covering his own position.

Zaza will come off the bench as he should.

[goinrogue]

Regarding Bibby for Calderon.....I can see the financial reasons behind this trade but I'm 50/50 on whether or not I'm in favour of it.

Rebuilding teams need strong PG play to get young players on the same page and run a structured offense. Calderon is ideal for this role. Without him, the Raps offense is usually in disarray with random players chucking up random shots at random time....this is a bad way to develop young talent. Mike Bibby is old and always been more of a scoring PG so I dont know if he'd be the ideal fit. If Zaza is involved, this deal makes absolutely no sense because the Raps end up downgrading at PG without cutting much long term salary.

If this trade goes down, it is not to get Mike Bibby; it is to give Bayless more playing time. And imo you're giving Jose a little bit too much credit. Jose is alright and admittedly better this season, but he's also inconsistent - remember he had that great game, and then following it up with a poor shooting performance and eight turnovers? He's also injury-prone. We're a treadmill team will Jose - that's it, that's all. Bayless shows signs of being something special: he's a natural scorer, an underrated passer and a decent defender - he shutdown Kidd against Dallas. He's young enough that he can develop into something, and it not, meh. We're rebuilding, anyway. Jose is ok, but don't act like he's going to take us to the promise land. And keep in mind that Bayless is already proving to be a much better leader on and off the court than anyone else on the team, Jose included.

[dagger]

The only thing that is throwing me off is that he mentioned both teams waived players today.

That makes me think it's more then a two for two deal and that it may be a deal involving a third player or a third team. Neither team would of had to waive anyone if it was a two for two deal.

The alternate theory for waiving Dupree is that teams can sign guys on 10-day contracts starting in five days and we need a third PG. Also, John Lucas III was waived by the Bulls yesterday and he could be added as early as tomorrow (assuming he was the target).

[Morris_Shatford]

Let me put my speculation hat on:

Calderon makes 9m
Bibby makes 5.5m

Jason Collins can't be traded without his permission,
Etan Thomas, Pape Sy, and Josh Powell all make sub 1m.

Atlanta is $39,787 shy of the tax threshold, so they are not adding salary.

Bibby + ZaZa = 9.81m
Calderon + Dorsey = 9.85m

Dropping them into the tax.

However, Calderon for Bibby + ZaZa would save them .81m right now.

Not sure if I'm right but Dorsey makes the minimum? And minimum salaries don't count against the tax? Anyone confirm both.

Answering my own question ... Dorsey makes the minimum and from my understanding, part of the min salary is paid for by the league.

When determining the amount of tax a team owes, the league uses its team salary (see question number 14) on the date of their last regular season game (i.e., if a player is traded away before the end of the season, then none of his salary is taxed), with the following adjustments:

* Any "unlikely bonuses" (see question number 64) that were actually earned are added to the team salary.
* Any "likely bonuses" (see question number 64) that were not earned are subtracted from the team salary.
* Any trade bonuses (see question number 86) for players received in trade after the last season game are added to the team salary.
* Any amounts from settlements of grievances are added to the team salary.
* For players who signed as free agents (i.e., not draft picks), and make less than the two-year minimum salary, the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is used in place of their actual salary.
* For minimum salary players whose salary is partially paid by the league (see question number 11) only the amount paid by the team (the two-year minimum salary) is taxed.
* Teams were given a one-time opportunity to waive one player and exempt his salary from the luxury tax. This is described in detail in question number 18.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q16

Would Dorsey qualify under this?

I am not sure Tim,
But the more I think about it.

The Hawks have a ton of cheap bigs on their roster.
I am not sure why they would want Dorsey anyway?

[Indeed]

My Sportsnet connection just asked around the office and says there's no talk of anything.

I heard nothing as well, but I wish the rumour is true, maybe Wolves wants to get involve.

[Lionel Messi]

Not under Larry Drew. Josh Powell averages more minutes than Zaza.

Didn't even check the numbers.

In that case, maybe we can get Zaza. I think he could even start and push Bargs to the 4.

Bargs can't guard 4s and Zaza isn't a good enough defender to make up for it while covering his own position.

Zaza will come off the bench as he should.

I'm sorry, I don't think we'll ever be a successful team if Bargnani is our starting C. He has to guard 4's, because him guarding players close to the basket also means he'll be responsible for more help assignments, and that is just bad news.

[witnessraps]

Run with Mike Bibby and Peja Stojakovic, sacramento of old:)

im on board.

[Morris_Shatford]

Run with Mike Bibby and Peja Stojakovic, sacramento of old:)

im on board.

If we could only get back Turk...

[Fenris-77]

Didn't even check the numbers.

In that case, maybe we can get Zaza. I think he could even start and push Bargs to the 4.

Hmm, I think I'd have to disagree with on this. I think it better serevs the long term interests of the team to get Amir and Ed the most minutes possible this year. Playing Zaza a lot would be counter-productive in the long term (IMO anyway). That's not really a slight on Zaza's skill level either, and I might even agree that that reasonable skill set and his veteran resume might mitiagte for a starting role - I just don't think he's good enough to take away from developing the youngsters.

Maybe if he 'starts' like Krstic 'starts' it wouldn't be the end of the world.

[Reignman]

Didn't even check the numbers.

In that case, maybe we can get Zaza. I think he could even start and push Bargs to the 4.

Bargs can't guard 4s and Zaza isn't a good enough defender to make up for it while covering his own position.

Zaza will come off the bench as he should.

I'm sorry, I don't think we'll ever be a successful team if Bargnani is our starting C. He has to guard 4's, because him guarding players close to the basket also means he'll be responsible for more help assignments, and that is just bad news.

At this point it's bad news either way but Davis or Amir really should continue starting for the betterment of this team long term. Andrea has to figure it out if he wants to be a starter on a good team and what better time to do it than in rebuilding years?

[pspot]

I'm thinking this ends up with Raps getting Nash and Atl ends up with Bibby + maybe Raps end up with Gortat as the big coming back

Bibby for Jose is interesting, if it is a straight deal I guess Zaza makes sense though he's not a shot blocker. I can't believe im saying this but I probably wouldn't do it

[J-Roc]

My Sportsnet connection just asked around the office and says there's no talk of anything.

I heard nothing as well, but I wish the rumour is true, maybe Wolves wants to get involve.

On one hand, we're all sitting around watching the losing and thinking it's just tanking. On the other hand, when the team is losing, BC usually has his hand on the trigger looking to shake things up. It will be interesting to see if he makes a deal that looks like tanking, or will it look like he's going for 9th.

[Alfred]

This is a pretty gross deal if true, and pretty awesome for Atlanta.

Dorsey is probably better than Pachulia, and Calderon is better than Bibby when he's healthy. Bibby is honestly not that great, and if we're trading Calderon for these two guys just to chisel off 4 million off the last year of his deal, I'll be pretty upset. I hope we get compensated.

[Lionel Messi]

Maybe if he 'starts' like Krstic 'starts' it wouldn't be the end of the world.

That's really what I mean.

I don't mean he'll be a 30+mpg starter. Just like 20 minutes or so.

[Wo1verine]

I'd do a Maurice Evans , Mike Bibby for Jose Calderon, Joey Dorsey deal.. wouldn't even think about taking ZAZA, he absolutely stinks and is under contract for the next two years.

[Reignman]

This is a pretty gross deal if true, and pretty awesome for Atlanta.

Dorsey is probably better than Pachulia, and Calderon is better than Bibby when he's healthy. Bibby is honestly not that great, and if we're trading Calderon for these two guys just to chisel off 4 million off the last year of his deal, I'll be pretty upset. I hope we get compensated.

yeah, I'm starting to feel this way more and more as I think about it. There has to be some sweetner, at least a pick coming our way.

[dillio]

Bargs can't guard 4s and Zaza isn't a good enough defender to make up for it while covering his own position.

Zaza will come off the bench as he should.

I'm sorry, I don't think we'll ever be a successful team if Bargnani is our starting C. He has to guard 4's, because him guarding players close to the basket also means he'll be responsible for more help assignments, and that is just bad news.

The only players Bargs has ever had success defending against has been back-to-the-basket Cs. The only 4s that Bargs can guard are 5's in 4's clothing like Duncan and Dwight (back when Battie was the C and Dwight was the "4"). Against guys like Bosh, Garnett, Amare, Nowitzski, Smith, Gasol, Love, Shard, etc, etc he has no chance. He's too slow.

[HEDOBALL]

Run with Mike Bibby and Peja Stojakovic, sacramento of old:)

im on board.

If we could only get back Turk...

Ed Davis blooms into the PF we all expect him to be in 3 years, and BC figures we need a ball handling, passing sf/pf to play with him. Toronto Raptors sign Hedo Turkoglu to a 3 year, 30 million dollar deal.

Merely days after signing the contract, Turkoglu dies from congestive heart failure. His family blames Pizza Pizza for the tragedy.

[Lionel Messi]

Lol, when did Zaza decline so much?

I must have missed that.