Nets Trying To Get Billups And RIP Along With Anthony

[bruddahmanmatt]

so why are melo and caa playing it off like new jersey's an option? why not just say "new jersey doesn't interest me"....like they said to michael jordan about charlotte?

Ever tried to negotiate with a potential client/partner/employer that knows he is your only option? That doesn't work very well...

It's be like walking into a auto shop, screaming "Holy crap, I'm totally getting that car!" and then asking the sales man for a discount. Ain't gonna happen.

That doesn't even make any sense.

How does that relate to Melo and CAA? If Melo only wants NY, there is no point in negotiating with NJ. It does them zero good and could only make NY give up more, making the NY team worse.

And this is where DENVER "talking" with New Jersey in an attempt to get New York to up their offer comes into play. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on here right now. From Melo's perspective, he wants New York to think that he won't take New Jersey so that the Knicks don't gut their roster to get him. At the same time, he also wants Denver to be willing to take New York's offer over New Jersey. The problem is that the Nets are willing to give up more than the Knicks in order to get Anthony and as such, a trade with New Jersey is more appealing to Denver than a trade with New York.

Now if Denver flat-out refuses to deal with the Knicks, and Carmelo feels that it's not worth it to gamble on FA next summer, then he'll need to start considering signing an extension with a team other than New York. New Jersey seems to be the next best thing if he can't have New York. In that sense, it's better for him to not say anything than it is for him to paint himself into a corner by telling New Jersey "do not want". By not saying anything at all, he's doing himself a favor in keeping his options open. He's also in a sense helping Denver by helping to at least keep the doors open with the Nets.

What's going to be interesting is one someone finally gives in. Either Denver will decide that it's not worth risking Carmelo walking next summer without compensation and they'll send him to New York for an offer worth much less than what New Jersey is willing to give up, or Carmelo will decide that it's not worth risking all that lost salary next summer and he'll take the extension with the Nets. It's a simple game of who blinks first.

[Jordan45822]

http://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard/stat ... 6979399680

Sources: proposed NJ-Den-Det deal "not dead, but dormant." that means part 1 (reaching agreement). Part 2 (Melo signing) still a longshot 28 minutes ago via Echofon Retweeted by 62 people

[bruddahmanmatt]

Because if it becomes apparent that the Knicks are not willing to overpay for Carmelo (which it looks like they're not) and Anthony eventually decides that rolling the dice on free agency and a new CBA this summer aren't worth the gamble (in terms of potential lost salary), New Jersey gives them an out. If they come out and state "Knicks or no deal" they back themselves into a corner. Then it becomes a game of chicken between Anthony and the Denver FO in an attempt to see who blinks first. Does Denver deal Anthony to his preferred destination in New York rather than risk not getting anything for him next summer, or does Anthony say "F it, I'll take the money" and extend wherever the Nuggets eventually decide to send him? At least right now he's on "ok" terms with New Jersey. Thing is, if he closes that door, he closes his best second option after the Knicks.

that makes perfect sense.

but it also means odds are carmelo will end up in new jersey for that package that's been discussed, because denver's closed the door with the knicks and by all indications is playing hardball with melo in terms of making him choose....new jersey or free agency.

so i guess we wait until the trade deadline and see if melo cracks.

like i've said before, denver knows they'll be able to get a deal in a s&t with new york during the summer (or after cba's been figured out) close to what's being offered now because of the contract implications of chandler, and melo wanting more years/money from a s&t. so it does them almost no good to crack and trade with new york before the deadline.

Well a S&T with the Knicks will get them a trade exception and maybe a scrub player or two but that's it. A trade with New York right now would at least guarantee them one of Chandler or Gallinari (I doubt the Knicks give up Landry Fields in the first year of his rookie deal). Problem is Denver is being so greedy right now they want all three guys, Curry's expiring, picks and for the Knicks to take back Harrington and probably Andersen while they're at it. LOL. Unfortunately for the Nuggets, it's that "other" franchise who's willing to throw in the kitchen sink for Melo. Honestly if he were as smart as everyone claims he is, Prohorov would realize that he's bidding against himself at this point and tell Denver to go F themselves while he takes at least one of Harris or Favors off the table. His offer is MORE than generous at this point.

In the end, it's all what I and a few others were saying it would be this past summer, a giant game of chicken to see who caves first. Either Melo caves and takes the money, or Denver caves and takes New York's offer. That or no one caves and both parties remain stubborn, Melo misses out on the guaranteed money this year and Denver gets jack crap for him next year. That being said, in any of the three aforementioned scenarios, things are likely to only start happening MUCH closer to the deadline when everyone begins to feel the pressure and folks start becoming a lot more desperate.

[Jetset]

http://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard/status/25322166979399680

Sources: proposed NJ-Den-Det deal "not dead, but dormant." that means part 1 (reaching agreement). Part 2 (Melo signing) still a longshot 28 minutes ago via Echofon Retweeted by 62 people

I'm starting to realize that everything Broussard tweets is basically the same thing as his previous tweets he just words it differently.

[corona]

Well a S&T with the Knicks will get them a trade exception and maybe a scrub player or two but that's it. A trade with New York right now would at least guarantee them one of Chandler or Gallinari (I doubt the Knicks give up Landry Fields in the first year of his rookie deal).

might as well throw wilson chandler in that s&t too...since new york would have to renounce him anyway to make room for melo. or you think walsch would renounce him or s&t him somewhere else to make room for melo out of spite?

if new york had a bunch of young talent and/or draft picks to dangle in front of denver now, and the nuggets passed it up and it ended up as a s&t with new york later....i could see the nuggets screwing themselves. but that's not the case. they have almost nothing to lose in this situation. and it's magnified by the position of chandler. knicks can't re-sign him or they can't offer a contract to melo. so whether it be now or later, denver will probably still get him if melo's completely deadset on the knicks.

In the end, it's all what I and a few others were saying it would be this past summer, a giant game of chicken to see who caves first. Either Melo caves and takes the money, or Denver caves and takes New York's offer. That or no one caves and both parties remain stubborn, Melo misses out on the guaranteed money this year and Denver gets jack crap for him next year. LOL.

and melo's stated outright that his #1 priority is the extension.
so it shouldn't be hard to figure out where this ends up. money + jersey if denver keeps their head and plays the odds.

[bruddahmanmatt]

Well a S&T with the Knicks will get them a trade exception and maybe a scrub player or two but that's it. A trade with New York right now would at least guarantee them one of Chandler or Gallinari (I doubt the Knicks give up Landry Fields in the first year of his rookie deal).

might as well throw wilson chandler in that s&t too...since new york would have to renounce him anyway to make room for melo. or you think walsch would renounce him or s&t him somewhere else to make room for melo out of spite?

In the end, it's all what I and a few others were saying it would be this past summer, a giant game of chicken to see who caves first. Either Melo caves and takes the money, or Denver caves and takes New York's offer. That or no one caves and both parties remain stubborn, Melo misses out on the guaranteed money this year and Denver gets jack crap for him next year. LOL.

and melo's stated outright that his #1 priority is the extension.
so it shouldn't be hard to figure out where this ends up. money + jersey if denver keeps their head and plays the odds.

Not only that, who knows how the cap might be affected by a new CBA? The Knicks might have to give up more than just Chandler to get him although I actually think Melo would be willing to take a bit of a first year pay cut to help NY keep Wilson in the way Wade, Bosh and James all took less in their initial year to make room for Miller and Haslem.

I do tend to agree with you on your guess that Melo will likely cave first and take the cash though. I think he stands to lose much more than the Nuggets do. Denver will inevitably be forced to rebuild once Anthony departs but they do have Lawson, Afflao, Nene and some decent pieces to work with and I can't really say that a deal with New York that nets them just Chandler or just Gallinari makes THAT much of a difference. Plus I think if Anthony were 100% dead set and committed to standing firm on New York he would have risked it all and stated publicly "New York or bust".

[J Smitty]

And this is where DENVER "talking" with New Jersey in an attempt to get New York to up their offer comes into play. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on here right now. From Melo's perspective, he wants New York to think that he won't take New Jersey so that the Knicks don't gut their roster to get him. At the same time, he also wants Denver to be willing to take New York's offer over New Jersey. The problem is that the Nets are willing to give up more than the Knicks in order to get Anthony and as such, a trade with New Jersey is more appealing to Denver than a trade with New York.

Now if Denver flat-out refuses to deal with the Knicks, and Carmelo feels that it's not worth it to gamble on FA next summer, then he'll need to start considering signing an extension with a team other than New York. New Jersey seems to be the next best thing if he can't have New York. In that sense, it's better for him to not say anything than it is for him to paint himself into a corner by telling New Jersey "do not want". By not saying anything at all, he's doing himself a favor in keeping his options open. He's also in a sense helping Denver by helping to at least keep the doors open with the Nets.

What's going to be interesting is one someone finally gives in. Either Denver will decide that it's not worth risking Carmelo walking next summer without compensation and they'll send him to New York for an offer worth much less than what New Jersey is willing to give up, or Carmelo will decide that it's not worth risking all that lost salary next summer and he'll take the extension with the Nets. It's a simple game of who blinks first.

Exactly. But I still fail to see how Melo letting the NJ talk continue benefits him, if he really doesn't want to go there. Especially now that it's become so public, and he's being asked about it constantly, and fans are booing him, etc.

If I were him, I'd go to the Nuggets' FO and say "Knicks or bust." He doesn't need to do it publicly, but if he really wants to force their hand, that's what he should do. Because right now, all their efforts have been focused on NJ, and they haven't even begun talking to NY. The Nets offer is always going to be there. So if, at the deadline, he does crack first and chooses the extension over going to NY in free agency, he can still get it.

But if the Nuggets and Nets actually agree to anything right now, that kind of puts the pressure on him, because he'll have to say yes or no right now. He obviously doesn't want to say yes right now, as there is still a month left and he wants to hold out for NY as long as possible. And if he says no to it, then it becomes public and the Nets will pull their offer off the table(only at that point). If that happens, he can no longer go to NJ at the deadline, because they're not going to want him anymore if he already rejected a finalized deal(if they did, that would be unbelievably desperate and pathetic, like taking back a girlfriend you caught in bed with another man). Then he really is left with only the Knicks as an option, and greatly increases the chances of him not getting his extension.

As the situation is unfolding more rapidly now, it's becoming clear he is at least somewhat open to NJ, because of reasons already mentioned. It's really just a matter of who is going to break first between Melo and the Nuggets' FO. Personally, I have little confidence these days the Nuggets wont crack first, even though the incentive to get the extension is a lot greater for Melo, than it is for the Nuggets to take the Knicks' crappy offer over letting him walk.

[bruddahmanmatt]

And this is where DENVER "talking" with New Jersey in an attempt to get New York to up their offer comes into play. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on here right now. From Melo's perspective, he wants New York to think that he won't take New Jersey so that the Knicks don't gut their roster to get him. At the same time, he also wants Denver to be willing to take New York's offer over New Jersey. The problem is that the Nets are willing to give up more than the Knicks in order to get Anthony and as such, a trade with New Jersey is more appealing to Denver than a trade with New York.

Now if Denver flat-out refuses to deal with the Knicks, and Carmelo feels that it's not worth it to gamble on FA next summer, then he'll need to start considering signing an extension with a team other than New York. New Jersey seems to be the next best thing if he can't have New York. In that sense, it's better for him to not say anything than it is for him to paint himself into a corner by telling New Jersey "do not want". By not saying anything at all, he's doing himself a favor in keeping his options open. He's also in a sense helping Denver by helping to at least keep the doors open with the Nets.

What's going to be interesting is one someone finally gives in. Either Denver will decide that it's not worth risking Carmelo walking next summer without compensation and they'll send him to New York for an offer worth much less than what New Jersey is willing to give up, or Carmelo will decide that it's not worth risking all that lost salary next summer and he'll take the extension with the Nets. It's a simple game of who blinks first.

Exactly. But I still fail to see how Melo letting the NJ talk continue benefits him, if he really doesn't want to go there. Especially now that it's become so public, and he's being asked about it constantly, and fans are booing him, etc.

If I were him, I'd go to the Nuggets' FO and say "Knicks or bust." He doesn't need to do it publicly, but if he really wants to force their hand, that's what he should do. Because right now, all their efforts have been focused on NJ, and they haven't even begun talking to NY. The Nets offer is always going to be there. So if, at the deadline, he does crack first and chooses the extension over going to NY in free agency, he can still get it.

But if the Nuggets and Nets actually agree to anything right now, that kind of puts the pressure on him, because he'll have to say yes or no right now. He obviously doesn't want to say yes right now, as there is still a month left and he wants to hold out for NY as long as possible. And if he says no to it, then it becomes public and the Nets will pull their offer off the table(only at that point). If that happens, he can no longer go to NJ at the deadline, because they're not going to want him anymore if he already rejected a finalized deal(if they did, that would be unbelievably desperate and pathetic, like taking back a girlfriend you caught in bed with another man). Then he really is left with only the Knicks as an option, and greatly increases the chances of him not getting his extension.

As the situation is unfolding more rapidly now, it's becoming clear he is at least somewhat open to NJ, because of reasons already mentioned. It's really just a matter of who is going to break first between Melo and the Nuggets' FO. Personally, I have little confidence these days the Nuggets wont crack first, even though the incentive to get the extension is a lot greater for Melo, than it is for the Nuggets to take the Knicks' crappy offer over letting him walk.

It actually wouldn't surprise me in the least if Melo did tell the Nuggets privately "Knicks or bust". When you look at what Denver is doing, it appears as though they're attempting to demonstrate to New York "hey, look at what Prohorov is willing to give up for Anthony, now you do the same". Every single time Mikhail has said "ok" to one of Denver's additional demands, Denver conjures up another request and it just looks to me like they're stalling for time because the Nuggets know that there is no deal to be made since Anthony has already told them "NY or go home" behind the scenes. I just think that these numerous New Jersey proposals are Denver's way of trying to get the Knicks to bite and make a huge offer of their own. Seems to me like Walsh is on to Kronke though and he knows what's going on. Without a guarantee from Melo that he'll extend with the Nets, New York has all the leverage.

IMO Denver made a HUGE mistake when the put out those earlier trade proposals (DEN-NJN straight up and DEN-NJN-UTA-CHA) a month or two ago. If you're going to bluff, you can only bluff once and you have to do it at the right time. Denver F'ed up by bluffing too early and not bluffing hard enough and New York saw what they were doing. Now as Denver attempts to bluff yet again, even though this new trade is closer to the deadline and MUCH bigger than the last one, it's not convincing anyone in New York that the Nuggets have something legit with New Jersey. Denver should have waited until a week before the deadline before deciding to put these trade proposals out there to bait New York.

[Blame Rasho]

Just make the trade already... it has dragged on for far too long already.

[HeyJoe]

rip hasn't played at all tonight, does this mean anything?

[Blackmun]

except in your example....carmelo's the car...aka, the asset that's trading hands.

the car doesn't care what it's bought/sold for. it just wants out of the showroom.

This makes no sense. The "car" in question seems to be very selective on who he wants and does not want to be bought by. So, that's why the example makes sense.

[truth serum]

so why are melo and caa playing it off like new jersey's an option? why not just say "new jersey doesn't interest me"....like they said to michael jordan about charlotte?

Ever tried to negotiate with a potential client/partner/employer that knows he is your only option? That doesn't work very well...

It's be like walking into a auto shop, screaming "Holy crap, I'm totally getting that car!" and then asking the sales man for a discount. Ain't gonna happen.

That doesn't even make any sense.

How does that relate to Melo and CAA? If Melo only wants NY, there is no point in negotiating with NJ. It does them zero good and could only make NY give up more, making the NY team worse.

I think it's obvious Melo has some agreement with the Nuggets not to blow their cover. Every time he is asked about the Nets, he says straight up "I don't want to answer that question". He's also said he doesn't think a trade is going to happen. Put two and two together my man. He's obviously frustrated by the rumors and badly wants to let the cat out of the bag but is still at the mercy of the Nuggets FO to an extent if he wants to be traded and get his extension with the Knicks this year. They probably told him, if you go to the media and tell them you only want to be a Knick, we'll hold onto you until the summer and you can deal with the CBA mess on your own. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. If this is what you're forcing us to do, then at least keep your mouth shut and let us do what we have to do to get the best deal possible out of NY.

Not hard to see what's going on and I don't blame Melo for playing along for now. But that's the reason this thing is dragging out and why Denver looks so foolish. If they were smart, they would have taken the Knicks offer before the season got under way and we wouldn't be talking about this right now. As it stands, Donnie Walsh seems to be on to them and is less and less likely to offer them anything valuable by the day. As I said on the Denver board, at this point, Walsh would be doing the Nugs a favor by sending them Gallinari and saving them a chunk of cash with Curry's contract. It is what it is.

[Blackmun]

He doesn't need an agreement with Denver, the NBA has rules, and if he gets involved in these discussions in public, it is tampering.

And while I do not believe the NBA would go this far, they can actually refuse to approve a trade/signing to a team if they feel like there has been severe enough tampering involved. I don't think it has ever happened, I doubt it ever will, just saying. The rules give them the right to say "No, you cannot sign for X team."

[Jordan45822]

rip hasn't played at all tonight, does this mean anything?

He is already in the doghouse in Detroit. Nothing surprising.

[Blackmun]

Rip will only know about the trade few moments before the rest of us do. The Detroit part of this trade isn't in dispute, it's all on Melo / Nuggets / (New York)

[corona]

except in your example....carmelo's the car...aka, the asset that's trading hands.

the car doesn't care what it's bought/sold for. it just wants out of the showroom.

This makes no sense. The "car" in question seems to be very selective on who he wants and does not want to be bought by. So, that's why the example makes sense.

i never said it's not selective. i said it doesn't care what it's bought/sold for....the price. and i should actually rephrase that, i think melo, the car, would prefer to be bought as cheaply as possible. he shouldn't want new york to give up the farm for him, because it makes it harder for him to compete in new york.

As it stands, Donnie Walsh seems to be on to them and is less and less likely to offer them anything valuable by the day. As I said on the Denver board, at this point, Walsh would be doing the Nugs a favor by sending them Gallinari and saving them a chunk of cash with Curry's contract. It is what it is.

so when it really boils down, you could say walsh is the one screwing melo out of millions.....because he's refusing to give up a fair offer for melo, which is forcing melo to go to free agency to get to new york.
why would he want to play for a team that isn't looking out for him in the least?

[bruddahmanmatt]

so when it really boils down, you could say walsh is the one screwing melo out of millions.....because he's refusing to give up a fair offer for melo, which is forcing melo to go to free agency to get to new york.
why would he want to play for a team that isn't looking out for him in the least?

Honestly, that's probably the argument Rose and Prokhorov are using with Melo. "Hey look, they don't really want you". You can't really blame the Knicks for looking out for their own interests though, especially after the way they suicided their team over the last decade at the hopes at having a shot at LBJ. The Knicks are probably telling Melo under the table, "if we overpay for you, you'll only be walking into a bad situation" and attempting to convince him behind the scenes that them not overpaying or pursuing him too hard is also in his (Anthony's) best interest. Essentially everyone is looking out for themselves and trying to convince the other parties that their own wishes are what's best for everyone.

[HeyJoe]

so when it really boils down, you could say walsh is the one screwing melo out of millions.....because he's refusing to give up a fair offer for melo, which is forcing melo to go to free agency to get to new york.
why would he want to play for a team that isn't looking out for him in the least?

Honestly, that's probably the argument Rose and Prokhorov are using with Melo. "Hey look, they don't really want you". You can't really blame the Knicks for looking out for their own interests though, especially after the way they suicided their team over the last decade at the hopes at having a shot at LBJ. The Knicks are probably telling Melo under the table, "if we overpay for you, you'll only be walking into a bad situation" and attempting to convince him behind the scenes that them not overpaying or pursuing him too hard is also in his (Anthony's) best interest. Essentially everyone is looking out for themselves and trying to convince the other parties that their own wishes are what's best for everyone.

they failed cause they didn't land lebron. if they did, their whole FO would've bragged about how smart they were blowing their crappy team up and shedding salary.

[Trader_Joe]

NY should make a decent offer for Melo. Something along the lines of:

Gallinari/Randolph/Douglas/Mozgov/Curry/Azubuike/picks/cash
for
Melo/Harrington/Andersen

The key being get another team like Minny involved with cap space that you can utilize.

If NY made a decent offer for Melo it helps them on many levels:
1. They could resign Chandler next season
2. They would have an MLE next season
3. They get Melo now for a playoff run
4. They make Melo feel wanted and paid
5. They get a head start on tinkering the team with Melo and Amare

I made a trade thread about this:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1083202

[MitchSlapped]

Knicks have reached out to Memphis about sending OJ Mayo to DEN in 3-team deal that would send Carmelo Anthony to New York, sources say.

https://twitter.com/chris_broussard/sta ... 3544394752