[Camelo Thread 14] - Minny, Denver and NY working!! p28

[Flaming Mo]

How many stars do the Spurs have? How many stars did the Pistons have?

You win with a great TEAM.

Tim Duncan is a HOF, top ten of all time player. Parker and Ginobili are multiple all stars. The Pistons one year wasnt the norm. If you have two stars it doesnt mean that you cant surround them with a great team.

If you have stars its easy to fill the rest of the positions. Love what SA has done but getting lucky with Duncan was the ONE big reason why they are contending for 13 years.

[knicks742]

To all of you who think this is too good to be true, do not underestimate the $20 million that Denver will be saving in salaries/luxury tax payments if they do this deal. That is the most important part of the deal and probably the main reason they would pull this trigger. Who else is going to give them as much savings or a player so much better than chandler that is worth bypassing $20 million in cash savings?

[Lottery Bound]

Our Starting lineup should look like this...

PG- Felton
SG- Fields
SF- MELO
PF- STAT
C - Mozgov

Gallo is the 6th man off the bench with Turiaf, Williams and Skywalker to follow.

[Flaming Mo]

A couple of weeks ago when we were something like 8 games over .500 and looked like we were improving, I would have maybe agreed with you. I said that we have to see how the year plays out. Well, as of now Amare plus a bunch of talented yet inconsistent players doesnt cut it. Even with a tweak here and there this team will not be a contender. Melo seems like a done deal so you better get used to it. And as I said, there are worse situations your franchise can be in than having two top ten players in their prime and a young, hungry supporting cast (Gallo, Fields, Felton, Moz, TD)...

[Hitman33]

How many stars do the Spurs have? How many stars did the Pistons have?

You win with a great TEAM.

Tim Duncan is a HOF, top ten of all time player. Parker and Ginobili are multiple all stars. The Pistons one year wasnt the norm. If you have two stars it doesnt mean that you cant surround them with a great team.

If you have stars its easy to fill the rest of the positions. Love what SA has done but getting lucky with Duncan was the ONE big reason why they are contending for 13 years.

Tim Duncan is not a superstar now and the Spurs are the best team in the league. How many stars do they have now?

People say that "stars" win, which is true, when you are talking about "Super-Dooper Stars"

Transcendent players like Kobe & MJ & Shaq the like, who are just way better than their peers,

tend to win in the NBA since it is a 5 on 5 league.

Carmelo is not a "star" like MJ or Kobe or Shaq. He is a volume scorer who has been out of the first round once in his life.

[Knickplaya]

I would give them Douglas too...if we got JR Smith back and that helped entice them to do the deal sooner than later. Although Douglas is an undersized 2, he could still probally play a little with Lawson because they are both very tough defenders, but more importantly, they would obtain him as an asset to deal later on.

[Knickplaya]

Our Starting lineup should look like this...

PG- Felton
SG- Fields
SF- MELO
PF- STAT
C - Mozgov

Gallo is the 6th man off the bench with Turiaf, Williams and Skywalker to follow.

This is probally the best lineup, if we hope to make a deep run in the post-season, got to have productive big's.

Also, all of a sudden if this happens we are a very BIG team.

[Lottery Bound]

I would give them Douglas too...if we got JR Smith back and that helped entice them to do the deal sooner than later. Although Douglas is an undersized 2, he could still probally play a little with Lawson because they are both very tough defenders, but more importantly, they would obtain him as an asset to deal later on.

I have a feeling that Douglas is going to be used with Azabuike to get OJ Mayo here.

[Paeds]

How many stars do the Spurs have? How many stars did the Pistons have?

You win with a great TEAM.

Sa -3 stars
Det- 4 stars

[putiger78]

I see no way that we can get Melo for a package of Chandler (gone anyway if we signed Melo in free agency), Curry (done in NY if not the NBA) and Randolph (was going to get traded anyway). But the mere fact that this deal is being rumored tells you that Walsh is playing his cards right and not offering the farm for Melo when we have al the leverage.

So here is what I think:
- We will ultimately have to give up our 2012 pick and maybe even our 2014 pick also.
- Gallo is not on the table in any scenario.
- Fields may be on the table but Denver would have to play this out perfectly in order get Donnie to include him. Good chance Donnie won't part with him in any scenario, although I think he is slightly less untouchable than Gallo.
- Any of the "others" could be included and Donnie wouldn't hesitate to include if Denver was interested (Walker, Douglas, Williams, maybe even Mozgov).
- We still may have to take back some salary, whether its Harrington or Anderson. Turiaf and/or someone else could be added to make the salaries work.

Basically, in any trade where we keep both Gallo and Fields (and Felton) and get Melo, I am happy.

[Hitman33]

To all of you who think this is too good to be true, do not underestimate the $20 million that Denver will be saving in salaries/luxury tax payments if they do this deal. That is the most important part of the deal and probably the main reason they would pull this trigger. Who else is going to give them as much savings or a player so much better than chandler that is worth bypassing $20 million in cash savings?

No. The Kroenkes are BILLIONAIRES.

They did not get to be billionaires by being stupid & they are NOT going to trade their most valuable asset JUST to save 20 million dollars.

[TrueWarrior]

You're not going to win this battle Hitman, even if I agree with you somewhat. We'll just have to see how it works out before judging it. Amare and Melo could be a great duo or it could be a huge bust. Chemistry is a very delicate thing in this game so who knows. It would be up to Donnie to surround them with complimentary talent. We can only play the waiting game for now...

The difference between Amare/Melo and Kobe/Gasol, LeBron/Wade/Bosh, Rondo/Ray/PP/KG, Parker/Manu/Duncan, etc though is that most of them are good passers and defenders.

Even so getting Melo at the reported price is drop the soap nasty.

Hes the best available player who is still only 26 so we have to do it.

[putiger78]

I hear a lot of concern over Melo's defense, and I think that is legitimate, but also don't underestimate the fact that he is a very good defensive rebounder, one of our biggest weaknesses (maybe biggest).

With the weak rebounders around him, he would probably average 9-10 boards a game for us.

[BelieveTheDream]

when melo was playing for team USA not only was he the best player but he was dishing the ball nice and moving hte ball around...If the trade is what it says it is Melo knows he can count on Gallo and he loves his game we have stat and also Felton will hopefully step his game back up n fields as well

[N8isScofield]

If/when Melo gets here I think we're going to see a little more of those triangle looks from earlier in the season in our half court sets. D'Antoni is creative enough to get production out of two elite players, I'm sure of it.

[knicks742]

To all of you who think this is too good to be true, do not underestimate the $20 million that Denver will be saving in salaries/luxury tax payments if they do this deal. That is the most important part of the deal and probably the main reason they would pull this trigger. Who else is going to give them as much savings or a player so much better than chandler that is worth bypassing $20 million in cash savings?

No. The Kroenkes are BILLIONAIRES.

They did not get to be billionaires by being stupid & they are NOT going to trade their most valuable asset JUST to save 20 million dollars.

Except that if you read reports since the summer, his main concern has been getting the maximum financial benefits he can get. That's why he nixed the first Nyets deal, no financial savings.

[shrink]

I've heard on the general forum the Nuggets would save 25 million dollars. can someone explain the math to me?

Not sure if you pages through, but since you asked specifically for the math ...

MIN has raw cap space from the Al Jefferson trade, and is far enough under the salary cap to absorb Curry without sending out any salary.

The savings for DEN between taking Curry, and getting cap space, would be dramatic. Let's say this deal allows DEN to get under the lux - they are currently over by $13,171,756, so let's just say with MIN's help, DEN can reduce payroll by $13.5 mil:

DEN SAVINGS:
$13.2 mil in luxury tax payments
$3.0? mil in being able to keep their lux share
$4.0? mil ($13.5 mil less salary, but only 30% left to be paid (pro-rated)

DEN SAVES $20 mil.


That said, Kahn is being a total idiot if he's just going to toss in his cap space here. Sure, NYK can send MIN cash, and it would pay a lot of the pro-rated part of Curry's front-loaded contract. And MIN doesn't have a lot of leverage, since SAC or CLE could provide the cap space component. However, if MIN's piece is going to save DEN $20 mil, and NYK's going to walk away with Carmelo, if MIN still has to give up Brewer, a 1st, and the opportunity costs of finding a better deal with their cap space, Kahn's done a pretty bad job here. Not to say it might not happen.

[Justdatdude]

Here's the full scouting report on Carmelo if you don't know what you're getting out of him.

Offense
-He has a terrific midrange game and that isn't based solely on his midrange jumper. His midrange game consist of a jab step jumper, a 1 dribble step back jumper, and a quick first step to get past the defender.

-He's the best post up player wing man in the league. His post game consist of backing his defender close enough to the basket, then jumping right over them to shoot. And he also has a fadeaway jumper. You will never see him do a hook shot.

-If he's on the baseline and goes left, 90% of the time you can expect him to spin right

-He's a solid passer, but he doesn't pass out to the open 3 point shooter next to him. He usually hit cutters and only pass to the open 3 point shooter next to him if its a hard double team. He does make the cross court pass to the 3 point shooter though. Why he does this is something I'll never know, but it works and this is what he does so deal with it.

-You can expect him to make at least 2 turnovers a game that will have you asking yourself what was he thinking.

- He's a streaky 3 point shooter. Open or contested, don't bank on him hitting the 3.

- He likes to dribble with his left hand, but he can't finish with his left hand to save his life. This is why he constantly gets blocked.

Defense
- He's a good man defender. Put him on a guy who will have the ball a lot and he'll do a great job on it

- He's a lazy team defender. He's slow on rotations and rarely close out

- He doesn't fight through screens. If someone sets a screen, he usually run right into it, then pretend to be hurt

Overall
You're getting a guy who can score the ball and rebound at a high level. His passing ability depends on how he feels. One day he can be great, the next day he can be horrible. You have to deal with it. He can't guard shooters to save his life so its best to put him on a guy who will dribble the ball instead of spot up shooters.

If you're expecting anything else from Melo, you'll be disappointed. If you don't like him now, you won't like him later.

[captain subtext]

To all of you who think this is too good to be true, do not underestimate the $20 million that Denver will be saving in salaries/luxury tax payments if they do this deal. That is the most important part of the deal and probably the main reason they would pull this trigger. Who else is going to give them as much savings or a player so much better than chandler that is worth bypassing $20 million in cash savings?

No. The Kroenkes are BILLIONAIRES.

They did not get to be billionaires by being stupid & they are NOT going to trade their most valuable asset JUST to save 20 million dollars.

So they got rich by making decisions like passing on 20 MM dollar savings and going for nothing instead? Seems legit.

[fresko024]

when melo was playing for team USA not only was he the best player but he was dishing the ball nice and moving hte ball around...If the trade is what it says it is Melo knows he can count on Gallo and he loves his game we have stat and also Felton will hopefully step his game back up n fields as well

yea i agree..Melo is a high volume scorer but with another scorer in Amare and shooter in Gallo, assuming he doesnt go in a trade, will allow Melo to pass more often especially since he may be getting double teamed...and as for people who said getting Melo wont guarantee the Knicks a championship, getting Wade, Bron, and Bosh doesnt guarantee the Heat a championship either but its a start...we have a lot of good role players, we get Melo this yr and we still have a max slot coming in 2012 so the future is bright regardless for the Knicks..