[Camelo Thread 14] - Minny, Denver and NY working!! p28

[shrink]

Besides what's to keep Dallas and the Nuggets from bringing Minny into the deal? Dallas could trade Butler and a 1st round pick to Minny for an expiring like Telfair.

Kahn is not looking to keep collecting low first round picks. His only motivation in this deal is to get AR for cheap. Taking on Eddy's deal which will cost $4 million in cash for his salary and no luxury tax implications to Minny is why he is willing to do that. We pull AR from the deal and he walks away.

jonny's right here. I've seen DAL deals using MIN's cap space that runs perfectly, using Caron Butler.

Kahn would certainly take picks solely for their value as a trade asset, and probably get a better deal for rgw cap space than the Knicks are paying them (i.e. - being asked to include UTA 1st and Brewer). Picks (specifically, a deep-draft 2012 DAL 1st) would allow MIN to convert the value of the cap space into something who's shelf life is greater than 17 days.

However, the bottom line here is that Melo wants to go to NYK. MIN can't finance a Melo deal to a place where Melo doesn't want to go.

[defjux21]

Regarding Wolves taking Curry.

I thought I've seen numerous times that 50% of Curry's salary was paid upfront this year -- leaving only 50% to cover -- plus given where we are in season at this point the % is somewhat lower in terms of what is due.

I already explained that page 56. Curry has a different payment schedule allowing him to receive 50% of his salary in july but it has no impact on his trade value.

As an example, if a team played 50 games and one of its player already received 80% of his salary (80% of his salary means payment for approx 65 games) and that player is traded then his new team would have to reimburse the player's former team for all the games he was already paid for and didn't play (15 games). No team can pay a player for games he will play for his new team (outside of the $3 million cash allowed in trades).

Kos, I believe you... I just want to read more about this... Do you have a general link on how salaries work when a player is traded? Thanks...

http://www.nbpa.org/sites/default/files ... e%20II.pdf

[knicks742]

Besides what's to keep Dallas and the Nuggets from bringing Minny into the deal? Dallas could trade Butler and a 1st round pick to Minny for an expiring like Telfair.

Kahn is not looking to keep collecting low first round picks. His only motivation in this deal is to get AR for cheap. Taking on Eddy's deal which will cost $4 million in cash for his salary and no luxury tax implications to Minny is why he is willing to do that. We pull AR from the deal and he walks away.

jonny's right here. I've seen DAL deals using MIN's cap space that runs perfectly, using Caron Butler.

Kahn would certainly take picks solely for their value as a trade asset, and probably get a better deal for rgw cap space than the Knicks are paying them (i.e. - being asked to include UTA 1st and Brewer). Picks (specifically, a deep-draft 2012 DAL 1st) would allow MIN to convert the value of the cap space into something who's shelf life is greater than 17 days.

However, the bottom line here is that Melo wants to go to NYK. MIN can't finance a Melo deal to a place where Melo doesn't want to go.

Well my assumption, as we've discussed before, it's that it's only Eddy and AR for cap room. I don't believe you will include a pick or Brewer. I should have been clearer in my statement.

[GONYK]

Besides what's to keep Dallas and the Nuggets from bringing Minny into the deal? Dallas could trade Butler and a 1st round pick to Minny for an expiring like Telfair.

Kahn is not looking to keep collecting low first round picks. His only motivation in this deal is to get AR for cheap. Taking on Eddy's deal which will cost $4 million in cash for his salary and no luxury tax implications to Minny is why he is willing to do that. We pull AR from the deal and he walks away.

jonny's right here. I've seen DAL deals using MIN's cap space that runs perfectly, using Caron Butler.

Kahn would certainly take picks solely for their value as a trade asset, and probably get a better deal for rgw cap space than the Knicks are paying them (i.e. - being asked to include UTA 1st and Brewer). Picks (specifically, a deep-draft 2012 DAL 1st) would allow MIN to convert the value of the cap space into something who's shelf life is greater than 17 days.

However, the bottom line here is that Melo wants to go to NYK. MIN can't finance a Melo deal to a place where Melo doesn't want to go.

And therein, as the Bard would tell us, lies the rub

[cgf]

Regarding Wolves taking Curry.

I thought I've seen numerous times that 50% of Curry's salary was paid upfront this year -- leaving only 50% to cover -- plus given where we are in season at this point the % is somewhat lower in terms of what is due.

Also heard that Knicks could give Minny $3M to offset the acquisition costs of Curry.

If that all is true or close to true -- then you are looking at a trade of Brewer & #1 pick for Randolph which isn't that far out of reach in my mind. I think Walsh still places a HIGH VALUE on AR despite Mike's use of the kid and I've always felt moving him for a #1 pick by itself was selling cheaply.

You can't wipe it away with $3 mil cash, because the $11 mil in cap space has value as a trade asset.

...for 2 and a half more weeks...

[shrink]

Regarding Wolves taking Curry.

I thought I've seen numerous times that 50% of Curry's salary was paid upfront this year -- leaving only 50% to cover -- plus given where we are in season at this point the % is somewhat lower in terms of what is due.

I already explained that page 56. Curry has a different payment schedule allowing him to receive 50% of his salary in july but it has no impact on his trade value.

As an example, if a team played 50 games and one of its player already received 80% of his salary (80% of his salary means payment for approx 65 games) and that player is traded then his new team would have to reimburse the player's former team for all the games he was already paid for and didn't play (15 games). No team can pay a player for games he will play for his new team (outside of the $3 million cash allowed in trades).

Awesome post kosmvitelli. thanks for the knowledge.

[tangotai]

kneega: Glad to see you taking on the money issue with the non-believers...

On another related note: My true confession about Melo.

For a few days I too was of a different mind. I thought we don't need him, I don't want a volume shooter, he won't fit... and he's not worth it.

Then I came to my senses and realized that a Melo and Amare at the forwards are a nightmare for other teams. I began to realize that if we keep our core, Gallo, Fields and Mozcubed, this is going to be a contender...

From there I morphed my thining into; Keep the core of Gallo, Fields and Mozcubed and get Melo for whatever else it takes.....

Then I had an epiphany... Walsh, whom I respect immesely has a master plan. He came to NY to build a championship team. He will not sacrifice the family jewels (our young core) to get one big diamond, IF and this is the important realization for me anyway.... IF there is a chance to sign Melo as a FA.

There is so much discussion about the value of Gallo or Fields going forward... but after we get Melo here .... and if the opportunity presents itself....

Gallo and Felton and ?? might be packaged in a trade for an elite PG.... if and I am saying it is a big if say DWill or CPaul quietly make it known that they will not resign with their teams.

Before the board goes crazy on me.... what I am saying is that Walsh is a master strategist... he sees that by keeping the young core ... either
1) the team has enough talent to compete for a chip as constructed.....
or
2) he still has the pieces to make another potential blockbuster to get an elite PG if necessary.

Walsh thinks many moves ahead .... and I am not saying that I know what he is thinking... but I can see the possibilities. Trading Gallo and or Fields or Mozgov to get Melo now would mean sacrificing a shot at a blockbuster deal to get an elite PG if we need to make that move down the road.

Again, if Walsh doesn't believe that Melo will go the FA route... he might up the offer; but as long as the info that Walsh has is that Melo won't sign an extension with anyone but us.... there is no need and no way to trade any of our core assets.

So that is/was the process I went through... We'll see ... time will telll. But right now that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

[rammagen]

Obviously I missed some stuff here but why are the newbs fighting over who goes and stays and what the f will happen.
I can guarantee by the trade dealing one fo 2 things will happen either Mello will be traded or not . I feel that denver in their infinite wisdom will keep for one more run but it is going to bite them as he walks for nothing. The simple matter Donnie is looking at this trade and his proposals as what he would have to loose . And his logic is absolutely correct, why over pay

[shrink]

Regarding Wolves taking Curry.

I thought I've seen numerous times that 50% of Curry's salary was paid upfront this year -- leaving only 50% to cover -- plus given where we are in season at this point the % is somewhat lower in terms of what is due.

Also heard that Knicks could give Minny $3M to offset the acquisition costs of Curry.

If that all is true or close to true -- then you are looking at a trade of Brewer & #1 pick for Randolph which isn't that far out of reach in my mind. I think Walsh still places a HIGH VALUE on AR despite Mike's use of the kid and I've always felt moving him for a #1 pick by itself was selling cheaply.

You can't wipe it away with $3 mil cash, because the $11 mil in cap space has value as a trade asset.

...for 2 and a half more weeks...

Exactly. But note that not trading it to anyone and letting it expire - saves MIN $2 mil.

Cap space costs $0
Curry $5 mil - $3 mil in cash costs $2 mil

While $5 mil in cash would leave MIN the same financially, they'd still lose the opportunity to trade the cap space elsewhere.

[Knicker23]

Melo missed practice, page 82!

RT @nuggetsnews: Melo a no-show at Nuggets shootaround as trade rumors heat back up http://dpo.st/gLWsWV #nuggets

[AllanHoustonFan]

Melo missed practice, page 82!

RT @nuggetsnews: Melo a no-show at Nuggets shootaround as trade rumors heat back up http://dpo.st/gLWsWV #nuggets

Sounds like Denver had a meeting with Melo today.

[Context]

kneega: Glad to see you taking on the money issue with the non-believers...

On another related note: My true confession about Melo.

For a few days I too was of a different mind. I thought we don't need him, I don't want a volume shooter, he won't fit... and he's not worth it.

Then I came to my senses and realized that a Melo and Amare at the forwards are a nightmare for other teams. I began to realize that if we keep our core, Gallo, Fields and Mozcubed, this is going to be a contender...

From there I morphed my thining into; Keep the core of Gallo, Fields and Mozcubed and get Melo for whatever else it takes.....

Then I had an epiphany... Walsh, whom I respect immesely has a master plan. He came to NY to build a championship team. He will not sacrifice the family jewels (our young core) to get one big diamond, IF and this is the important realization for me anyway.... IF there is a chance to sign Melo as a FA.

There is so much discussion about the value of Gallo or Fields going forward... but after we get Melo here .... and if the opportunity presents itself....

Gallo and Felton and ?? might be packaged in a trade for an elite PG.... if and I am saying it is a big if say DWill or CPaul quietly make it known that they will not resign with their teams.

Before the board goes crazy on me.... what I am saying is that Walsh is a master strategist... he sees that by keeping the young core ... either
1) the team has enough talent to compete for a chip as constructed.....
or
2) he still has the pieces to make another potential blockbuster to get an elite PG if necessary.

Walsh thinks many moves ahead .... and I am not saying that I know what he is thinking... but I can see the possibilities. Trading Gallo and or Fields or Mozgov to get Melo now would mean sacrificing a shot at a blockbuster deal to get an elite PG if we need to make that move down the road.

Again, if Walsh doesn't believe that Melo will go the FA route... he might up the offer; but as long as the info that Walsh has is that Melo won't sign an extension with anyone but us.... there is no need and no way to trade any of our core assets.

So that is/was the process I went through... We'll see ... time will telll. But right now that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Thank you for that... It was beautiful- a work of pure artistic thought

And just for Karma reasons we need to bring Ewing(would help Moz) here as an assistant coach because I believe we are finally headed in the right direction...

[johnnywishbone]

However, the bottom line here is that Melo wants to go to NYK. MIN can't finance a Melo deal to a place where Melo doesn't want to go.

And therein, as the Bard would tell us, lies the rub

Unless it's a rental. It's not that bad a deal for Dallas who could then extend and trade Melo to NY after the season. Dallas would need a SF and we'd have a glut in Fields/Chandler and Gallo. I wouldn't even be surprised if Cuban could talk himself into believing that they could take Melo into staying especially if they got to the Finals. I'm not saying Melo would want to stay in Dallas just that I could see Cuban believing it.

[Knicks_Fan2]

Melo a no-show at Nuggets shootaround as trade rumors heat back up

By Chris Dempsey

The morning after Super Bowl Sunday and another trade scenario, Nuggets forward Carmelo Anthony did not show up for the team’s shootaround today for personal reasons.

Nuggets coach George Karl said it was an excused absence, though he did not personally talk to Anthony, who is expected to play tonight against Houston.

The Nuggets have reopened talks with New York concerning an Anthony trade, though things are a long way from being solved, if they in fact get there by the Feb. 24 trade deadline. Minnesota is involved as the Knicks look to pull a third team in to sweeten the offer.


Knicks president Donnie Walsh told reporters on Sunday discussions are on-going, but nothing was imminent.

“I don’t think we have anything going, but we’re getting a feeling for possibilities,” Walsh said before the Knicks played the 76ers at the Garden. “We have a better feeling for what’s going to happen.”

Karl didn’t have a reaction to the latest trade talk surrounding his star player, but guard J.R. Smith talked about the situation.

“I think the closer we come to the trade deadline and all of the free agent stuff, we get confident in ourselves and our team that we have the stability that we’re going to have through the rest of the season.” Smith said. “As it gets closer, I think we get closer as a team and as a unit.

Asked what his sense of the situation is, and if he thought Anthony would be there past the trade deadline, he said. “To be honest with you, I just let it go. Coming in here today I seen Melo wasn’t here and I’m like ‘what’s going on with Melo’ and everybody was like, ‘He just called (in)’ and I’m like ‘Ok, ok.’ But it’s tough because when you walk in the locker room and you don’t see him, it’s like ‘alright, what’s going on.’”

Adding spice to the situation is the presence today of the Houston Rockets, a franchise that remains open to ‘renting’ Anthony for the final two months of the season to help its team. The Rockets want Anthony to boost their fortunes this season and maybe, if he likes it, stay there beyond just this year.

[johnnywishbone]

kneega: Glad to see you taking on the money issue with the non-believers...

On another related note: My true confession about Melo.

For a few days I too was of a different mind. I thought we don't need him, I don't want a volume shooter, he won't fit... and he's not worth it.

Then I came to my senses and realized that a Melo and Amare at the forwards are a nightmare for other teams. I began to realize that if we keep our core, Gallo, Fields and Mozcubed, this is going to be a contender...

From there I morphed my thining into; Keep the core of Gallo, Fields and Mozcubed and get Melo for whatever else it takes.....

Then I had an epiphany... Walsh, whom I respect immesely has a master plan. He came to NY to build a championship team. He will not sacrifice the family jewels (our young core) to get one big diamond, IF and this is the important realization for me anyway.... IF there is a chance to sign Melo as a FA.

There is so much discussion about the value of Gallo or Fields going forward... but after we get Melo here .... and if the opportunity presents itself....

Gallo and Felton and ?? might be packaged in a trade for an elite PG.... if and I am saying it is a big if say DWill or CPaul quietly make it known that they will not resign with their teams.

Before the board goes crazy on me.... what I am saying is that Walsh is a master strategist... he sees that by keeping the young core ... either
1) the team has enough talent to compete for a chip as constructed.....
or
2) he still has the pieces to make another potential blockbuster to get an elite PG if necessary.

Walsh thinks many moves ahead .... and I am not saying that I know what he is thinking... but I can see the possibilities. Trading Gallo and or Fields or Mozgov to get Melo now would mean sacrificing a shot at a blockbuster deal to get an elite PG if we need to make that move down the road.

Again, if Walsh doesn't believe that Melo will go the FA route... he might up the offer; but as long as the info that Walsh has is that Melo won't sign an extension with anyone but us.... there is no need and no way to trade any of our core assets.

So that is/was the process I went through... We'll see ... time will telll. But right now that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Thank you for that... It was beautiful- a work of pure artistic thought

And just for Karma reasons we need to bring Ewing(would help Moz) here as an assistant coach because I believe we are finally headed in the right direction...

You guys need to get a room.

[duetta]

Hahn had a story the other day about Denver potentially using a franchise tag on Anthony, if the new CBA includes one. But then he shot down that angle from a big-market franchise / NBAPA angle. Still, he thought that Denver might hold out until at least the league meetings.

[shrink]

Melo missed practice, page 82! :lol:

RT @nuggetsnews: Melo a no-show at Nuggets shootaround as trade rumors heat back up http://dpo.st/gLWsWV #nuggets

Catch this part?

Adding spice to the situation is the presence today of the Houston Rockets, a franchise that remains open to ‘renting’ Anthony for the final two months of the season to help its team. The Rockets want Anthony to boost their fortunes this season and maybe, if he likes it, stay there beyond just this year.

I'm not buying it. Sounds like DEN is trying to make NYK think they have more leverage than they really do.

Dolan wants to do a trade now to lock in Melo from changing his mind, not to lock in DEN.

[GONYK]

There will have to be some pretty big concessions from the owners for there ever to be a franchise tag

[Context]

Exactly. But note that not trading it to anyone and letting it expire - saves MIN $2 mil.

Cap space costs $0
Curry $5 mil - $3 mil in cash costs $2 mil

While $5 mil in cash would leave MIN the same financially, they'd still lose the opportunity to trade the cap space elsewhere.

There's a way around that:

Telfair 2.7 million for Azub 3.3 million (80% insurance paid) net savings: 2.4 million...

"2 million-cap space cost" net "2.4 million in Telfair-Auzb swap savings" and Minny saves an additional:

400k

[HighRyzer83]

kneega: Glad to see you taking on the money issue with the non-believers...

On another related note: My true confession about Melo.

For a few days I too was of a different mind. I thought we don't need him, I don't want a volume shooter, he won't fit... and he's not worth it.

Then I came to my senses and realized that a Melo and Amare at the forwards are a nightmare for other teams. I began to realize that if we keep our core, Gallo, Fields and Mozcubed, this is going to be a contender...

From there I morphed my thining into; Keep the core of Gallo, Fields and Mozcubed and get Melo for whatever else it takes.....

Then I had an epiphany... Walsh, whom I respect immesely has a master plan. He came to NY to build a championship team. He will not sacrifice the family jewels (our young core) to get one big diamond, IF and this is the important realization for me anyway.... IF there is a chance to sign Melo as a FA.

There is so much discussion about the value of Gallo or Fields going forward... but after we get Melo here .... and if the opportunity presents itself....

Gallo and Felton and ?? might be packaged in a trade for an elite PG.... if and I am saying it is a big if say DWill or CPaul quietly make it known that they will not resign with their teams.

Before the board goes crazy on me.... what I am saying is that Walsh is a master strategist... he sees that by keeping the young core ... either
1) the team has enough talent to compete for a chip as constructed.....
or
2) he still has the pieces to make another potential blockbuster to get an elite PG if necessary.

Walsh thinks many moves ahead .... and I am not saying that I know what he is thinking... but I can see the possibilities. Trading Gallo and or Fields or Mozgov to get Melo now would mean sacrificing a shot at a blockbuster deal to get an elite PG if we need to make that move down the road.

Again, if Walsh doesn't believe that Melo will go the FA route... he might up the offer; but as long as the info that Walsh has is that Melo won't sign an extension with anyone but us.... there is no need and no way to trade any of our core assets.

So that is/was the process I went through... We'll see ... time will telll. But right now that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Thats a 10-4