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[Camelo Thread Part 17] - Denver makes trade offer p58

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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#641 » by NYKat » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:03 pm

King of Troy wrote:@ NYKAT

Did you not read my post?

I said it was a risk to wait for FA. No ****.

The point was that the risk was worth it. Without that risk, we'd be mediocre.

My point was that it was better to risk failure and compete for a championship then to take the safe route, gut the roster, and then be an ok team for the next 6 years.

I've also doubted the availability of these 'role players' that everyone keeps talking about, as though they are a dime a dozen. We need players, not roster fillers.


How does building around Amare/Felton/Melo equate to mediocrity any more than not doing anything right now?

Your pre-supposing that if we acquire Melo at the expense of a couple of wing players, we won't be able to get add any other players and thus be mediocre, that's quite a stretch.

If we keep flexibility and don't add another consistent offensive weapon, then we remain what we are right now the definition of Mediocre...and we have wait for the next FA and do this all over again.

You can play the flexibilty card forever, at some point you gotta commit to a core of players to build around don't you?
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#642 » by johnnywishbone » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:06 pm

I_Love_NYK wrote:Do the Knicks really have a plan B now? Danny Granger, Gerald Wallace, Andre Igoudala all looks like they are staying put as their teams are currently in the playoff hunt. But who else will be out there, are they really going to extend Chandler?


I have two plans:

Plan 1A: Keep cap flexibility and look to score DWIll, CP3 or Dwight Howard.

Plan 1B: Tyson Chandler + JRich/OJ Mayo Trade + Wil Chandler.

Either plan I'm looking for a new coach.
Play time is over.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#643 » by knicks742 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:14 pm

If we don't get Melo even in free agency, guys like Camby, Andre Miller, Nash will be available and they fit our criteria of having contracts that end in 2012 so we can be max players that summer. We can use some of the assets we do not use on the Melo deal to get these guys and it would be a lot less expensive as well, in my opinion.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#644 » by Demyze » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:16 pm

What is the fallout if we don't get Melo? Personally i don't care about 2012 2013 2014 or 2015, I don't care DW, DH, or CP3. Theres gotta be an end to this crap. All i'm saying that were sold on Lebron now Melo, now if its not Melo i'm already reading articles about the other 3 in 2012, what are we going to keep waiting and waiting there gotta be a resolution somewhere.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#645 » by King of Troy » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:18 pm

NYKat wrote:
King of Troy wrote:@ NYKAT

Did you not read my post?

I said it was a risk to wait for FA. No ****.

The point was that the risk was worth it. Without that risk, we'd be mediocre.

My point was that it was better to risk failure and compete for a championship then to take the safe route, gut the roster, and then be an ok team for the next 6 years.

I've also doubted the availability of these 'role players' that everyone keeps talking about, as though they are a dime a dozen. We need players, not roster fillers.


How does building around Amare/Felton/Melo equate to mediocrity any more than not doing anything right now?

Your pre-supposing that if we acquire Melo at the expense of a couple of wing players, we won't be able to get add any other players and thus be mediocre, that's quite a stretch.

If we keep flexibility and don't add another consistent offensive weapon, then we remain what we are right now the definition of Mediocre...and we have wait for the next FA and do this all over again.

You can play the flexibilty card forever, at some point you gotta commit to a core of players to build around don't you?


Not doing anything right now says nothing about our future, it leaves it open ended. We can commit salary or we can maintain flexibility. We have two options which can be decided upon once we get there.

Committing now to Melo takes away our cheap assets, our depth. These are valuable pieces either to the team itself or towards trading for another player.

I'm not saying that by trading these guys for Melo we won't get any players. I never said that. What I'm saying is that the level of players we can get is drastically diminished by gutting our roster right now for Melo. If risk it and wait, we would be able to maintain our assets while getting Melo. Then those assets can be flipped for another very good player, or developed.

What I am certain of is that these players we're giving up are better then the vet min guys you are going to find on the market. By giving these people up now, we would certainly be downgrading with whoever we are going to sign to fill the void left by their departure.

Waiting not only allows us to retain assets that can be used for another player or to round out our team with players and maintain our level of depth, but it also allows us other options, which my not be Carmelo.

We wait because it gives us more options. Acting now creates mediocrity as it hinders our ability to get more talent in the long run. It is short term thinking rather than long term thinking. Carmelo is a great talent, but sacrificing long term options to get him now seems rather short sighted. He doesn't make us contenders, so why toss aside assets when we can potentially get him and continue to build. Getting Carmelo as it now stands severely limits our ability to make future moves, and that is where the major problem lies, alongside the problem of depth.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#646 » by NYman15 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:18 pm

I think Donnie and Denver are playing the waiting game and I think Donnie will put a better out soon if he hasn't already but i think denver will hold him till a few days before the deadline if they trade him I have felt all along that if a trade went down it would be 2 of the 3 young guys( Fields, Gallo, Chandler) along with eddy curry along with 1st round pick from AR with maybe Bill Walker but you could see a billups- felton swap , but I don't see that happening I think they will keep billups because he wants to be there and help appease fans, that's what I think will happen and I always felt you could see Donnie do a few more moves after a deal, if it happens, like azubuike and mason for a pg or Douglas and Azubuike for mayo, however we then have no back pg, and I always felt it would be gallo staying and yu would see some sort of lineup with him off the bench or a lineup with going small.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#647 » by cgmw » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:19 pm

KnicksGod wrote:I too get the feeling that Denver is just going to keep him and try to call his bluff. But Melo may become even more agitated and determined to leave via free agency.

Ah Ha! Welcome to the Darkside, KG. We argued about this ad-nauseum last month. Now I see your Schwartz is finally as big as mine. :starwars
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#648 » by towelie » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:20 pm

Demyze wrote:What is the fallout if we don't get Melo? Personally i don't care about 2012 2013 2014 or 2015, I don't care DW, DH, or CP3. Theres gotta be an end to this crap. All i'm saying that were sold on Lebron now Melo, now if its not Melo i'm already reading articles about the other 3 in 2012, what are we going to keep waiting and waiting there gotta be a resolution somewhere.


As much as it sucks to keep waiting for yet another FA class, that's pretty much our only option unless we want to lock ourselves into mediocrity, or we trade Amar'e and press the RESET button again.

Your attitude is like the poker player who gets burned on a bad river beat, and then goes on to play really bad hands cause he's too pissed off to think clearly. If we miss out on Melo, we need to keep our flexibility for 2012, period.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#649 » by King of Troy » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:22 pm

towelie wrote:
Demyze wrote:What is the fallout if we don't get Melo? Personally i don't care about 2012 2013 2014 or 2015, I don't care DW, DH, or CP3. Theres gotta be an end to this crap. All i'm saying that were sold on Lebron now Melo, now if its not Melo i'm already reading articles about the other 3 in 2012, what are we going to keep waiting and waiting there gotta be a resolution somewhere.


As much as it sucks to keep waiting for yet another FA class, that's pretty much our only option unless we want to lock ourselves into mediocrity, or we trade Amar'e and press the RESET button again.

Your attitude is like the poker player who gets burned on a bad river beat, and then goes on to play really bad hands cause he's too pissed off to think clearly. If we miss out on Melo, we need to keep our flexibility for 2012, period.


Exactly.

I was just going to respond to his post in this same manner.

You play to win. Sometimes you must accept that you don't have the cards and fold. Then you wait till you can get the hand you nedd. No reason to force what is not there.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#650 » by K_ick_God » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:23 pm

cgmw wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:I too get the feeling that Denver is just going to keep him and try to call his bluff. But Melo may become even more agitated and determined to leave via free agency.

Ah Ha! Welcome to the Darkside, KG. We argued about this ad-nauseum last month. Now I see your Schwartz is finally as big as mine. :starwars




We didn't argue about this.

We argued about whether new Max contracts will be much lower than the existing Max contracts. I maintain that the new Maxes will definitely be very close to the existing Maxes.

But whether Denver will try to get Melo to cave, and whether he will in fact cave, is a separate matter.

In the end, if he does cave, he will look bad because new Maxes will not be too different from old Maxes unless old Maxes are also rolled back. But that doesn't say anything about what Denver may do or what Melo may do.

People make bad decisions.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#651 » by Demyze » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:25 pm

towelie wrote:
Demyze wrote:What is the fallout if we don't get Melo? Personally i don't care about 2012 2013 2014 or 2015, I don't care DW, DH, or CP3. Theres gotta be an end to this crap. All i'm saying that were sold on Lebron now Melo, now if its not Melo i'm already reading articles about the other 3 in 2012, what are we going to keep waiting and waiting there gotta be a resolution somewhere.


As much as it sucks to keep waiting for yet another FA class, that's pretty much our only option unless we want to lock ourselves into mediocrity, or we trade Amar'e and press the RESET button again.

Your attitude is like the poker player who gets burned on a bad river beat, and then goes on to play really bad hands cause he's too pissed off to think clearly. If we miss out on Melo, we need to keep our flexibility for 2012, period.


Yea I know, When we missed out on Lebron i really didn't care that much but Melo wants to be here, hes from here and he has a team/winning attitude, hes not trying to sell his brand like LBJ, I really hope we get him at all costs. Just wanna witness some winning basketball again like in the 90's.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#652 » by NYman15 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:27 pm

cgmw wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:I too get the feeling that Denver is just going to keep him and try to call his bluff. But Melo may become even more agitated and determined to leave via free agency.

Ah Ha! Welcome to the Darkside, KG. We argued about this ad-nauseum last month. Now I see your Schwartz is finally as big as mine. :starwars


That's the thing I never understood or got a grip on is that some writers, actually Hoopsworld said they most likely will hold onto him, believe they will or might hold onto him and than others like Chris Broussard say no way that happens they wont get Lebron'
No one really knows what will happen which has been the summary of this story from the beginning, is that almost no one knows what is going on I mean some reporters say he would go to the nets while others say he won't and only go to the knicks( Tommy Dee had it from the beginning and Chris Sheridan) pretty much their is a lot of crap out there with only a littler truth.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#653 » by K_ick_God » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:29 pm

Demyze wrote:
towelie wrote:
Demyze wrote:What is the fallout if we don't get Melo? Personally i don't care about 2012 2013 2014 or 2015, I don't care DW, DH, or CP3. Theres gotta be an end to this crap. All i'm saying that were sold on Lebron now Melo, now if its not Melo i'm already reading articles about the other 3 in 2012, what are we going to keep waiting and waiting there gotta be a resolution somewhere.


As much as it sucks to keep waiting for yet another FA class, that's pretty much our only option unless we want to lock ourselves into mediocrity, or we trade Amar'e and press the RESET button again.

Your attitude is like the poker player who gets burned on a bad river beat, and then goes on to play really bad hands cause he's too pissed off to think clearly. If we miss out on Melo, we need to keep our flexibility for 2012, period.


Yea I know, When we missed out on Lebron i really didn't care that much but Melo wants to be here, hes from here and he has a team/winning attitude, hes not trying to sell his brand like LBJ, I really hope we get him at all costs. Just wanna witness some winning basketball again like in the 90's.



That's just the thing: If we overpay for Melo, you may not witness winning basketball. Giving up a lot for Melo just to say we have Amar'e and Melo ... that's an MSG sequel to The Marbury Era in my honest opinion.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#654 » by moocow007 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:29 pm

cgmw wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:I too get the feeling that Denver is just going to keep him and try to call his bluff. But Melo may become even more agitated and determined to leave via free agency.

Ah Ha! Welcome to the Darkside, KG. We argued about this ad-nauseum last month. Now I see your Schwartz is finally as big as mine. :starwars


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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#655 » by Pharmcat » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:29 pm

is the SAS show on tonite?

wonder if he has any news?
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#656 » by King of Troy » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:31 pm

Demyze wrote:
towelie wrote:
Demyze wrote:What is the fallout if we don't get Melo? Personally i don't care about 2012 2013 2014 or 2015, I don't care DW, DH, or CP3. Theres gotta be an end to this crap. All i'm saying that were sold on Lebron now Melo, now if its not Melo i'm already reading articles about the other 3 in 2012, what are we going to keep waiting and waiting there gotta be a resolution somewhere.


As much as it sucks to keep waiting for yet another FA class, that's pretty much our only option unless we want to lock ourselves into mediocrity, or we trade Amar'e and press the RESET button again.

Your attitude is like the poker player who gets burned on a bad river beat, and then goes on to play really bad hands cause he's too pissed off to think clearly. If we miss out on Melo, we need to keep our flexibility for 2012, period.


Yea I know, When we missed out on Lebron i really didn't care that much but Melo wants to be here, hes from here and he has a team/winning attitude, hes not trying to sell his brand like LBJ, I really hope we get him at all costs. Just wanna witness some winning basketball again like in the 90's.


I'd rather risk 20 years of sucking for some championships. I have no interest in being mediocre. I also do not value people on any of the things you mentioned as positives for Melo. The ends in this case justify the means.

That is at least how I see, and where my argument comes from.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#657 » by moocow007 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:33 pm

Here's an idea. We give everything to get Melo and then trade him to Orlando for Dwight Howard when Dwights asks to be traded. Yeah that's it!!!!
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#658 » by King of Troy » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:34 pm

moocow007 wrote:Here's an idea. We give everything to get Melo and then trade him to Orlando for Dwight Howard when Dwights asks to be traded. Yeah that's it!!!!


Agreed.

Let us start the paperwork right now.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#659 » by Demyze » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:36 pm

That's just the thing: If we overpay for Melo, you may not witness winning basketball. Giving up a lot for Melo just to say we have Amar'e and Melo ... that's an MSG sequel to The Marbury Era in my honest opinion.


Yea, I have 100% more confidence in this than the Lebron situation because hes from here, he wants to be here, his wife and kid live here year round etc. SAS made a good point too we have 4 former GM's working under 1 roof including Donnie Walsh and they should come up with a creative package to get the deal done. I also find it funny that Lebron left home and got criticized now Melo wants to come home and hes getting criticized.
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Re: [Camelo Thread Part 17] - Yo Melo, Whas Good Son! 

Post#660 » by adog50 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:37 pm

My Prediction is Denver wont trade him. There going to roll the dice and keep him, then loose him in the summer to Us. Bunch of dumb GM's.

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