2011 Synergy D-stat rankings - Derozan D-stats pg. 11

[Death Knight]

All of this is nice but we'd win a lot more games if we could defend the three point shot and make some of our own. Dribble penetration forces our defenders to rotate more, and that scrambles our defence. Good ball movement ends up killing us with wide open looks beyond the arc.

It's no surprise that are last two wins - Washington and OKC - are mediocre three point shooting teams. Or scroll back to the Indiana win when Granger was ineffective and Josh McRoberts didn't play.

I'm not going to argue that we have great interior D, but in basketball, you just need to shift the paradigm a bit to double your win total. A little more effective D, a little more effective O, can change a 20-win team into a 40-win team without the addition of a superstar. It's the superstars, however, that change the 40-win team into a 60-win contender.

My argument is that the most important stat in building a better Raptor team is not offensive or defensive efficiency, but the spread. The excess of points given up vs points scored. You shouldn't sacrifice a great deal of offence to become a better defensive team. Our best ever defensive team was KO's year - at least until we traded AD for Jalen Rose. That team was unwatchable, and it was still headed for the lottery.

So I prefer a systemic, and somewhat subjective analysis of our issues. If there is one thing I like about a prospect like Harrison Barnes, it's that he'd more likely impact the spread than almost anyone we could draft, Irving included. He's a good perimeter defender, but would have immediate impact as a shooter with good three point range. Conversely, a player like Barbosa has a negative impact because while he can score in bunches some nights, he's not good at keeping his man in front of him. His gambling style leads to too many open drives.

Well I pointed this out in the other Bargnani thread. On/off court stats pts per 100 possessions.

With Bargnani
Offense: 107.7
Defense: 115.6
Net: -7.9

Without Bargnani
Offense: 104.2
Defense: 109.5
Net: -5.3

Raptors close that spread much better without Bargnani. A little less scoring, but much better defense, which still isn't good being negative either way.

[Double Helix]

Yes, DK, but as was revealed in that thread... The vast majority of the 'off' includes our Raptors bench going up against another team's bench. The Raptors the past few years, save CB, had benches that nearly rivaled the starting lineup. BC has always been one to build strong benches but our starters have only been marginally better so they all get lit up against other team's starters. Even Bosh's best season on record was only a + 6. On other teams with 4 other starters much better than his bench he'd have been in the double digits. This aspect complicates on/off and you really should have explained as much before posting the data. Alas, this is a synergy situational discussion, not an on/off discussion.

[Nothingface]

Well I pointed this out in the other Bargnani thread. On/off court stats pts per 100 possessions.

With Bargnani
Offense: 107.7
Defense: 115.6
Net: -7.9

Without Bargnani
Offense: 104.2
Defense: 109.5
Net: -5.3

Raptors close that spread much better without Bargnani. A little less scoring, but much better defense, which still isn't good being negative either way.

All that means to me is that in the less than 12 minutes a game Bargs is not on the floor, our scrubs to a bit better than their scrubs.

Another stat

Winning percentage this year in games Bargnani does not play: .125

[Nothingface]

Bargnani increases our winning percentage by a factor of 2.256.

Yet he is the source of all evil.

[WhatsaTDot]

The only ones that surprise me are Amir/Ed, and Ibaka. Although those 3 are strongest in their help D.

I hope he does get traded then Ed and Demar leave ASAP and screw our franchise even harder.

WTF - why would you hope for the demise of the franchise? So that you could be right on the Intarwebs?

[Nothingface]

Before panties get twisted, I just posted crap stats to counter act other crap stats...

[5DOM]

DeRozan is net -5.4. I bet if we get rid of him and Bargs we go 82-0!

[Double Helix]

I am about to board an airplane and go on a mini-vacation for the next few days so I won't be able to respond to any other requests or comments. If anybody attacks anything I've written while I'm away and I'm unable to respond this is why. Have a good weekend everyone! Enjoy the Sweet 16.

[Double Helix]

I still have a bit of time left before I board actually so I'm writing this on my phone. Anyway, some of you may want to check out this trial from Synergy. It's a really interesting service and I have no idea how long this free trial will last. In hindsight, I wish I had recorded the pick and roll defence info too but if anybody is interested in that info it's not hard to dig up.

[RapsFanInVA]

Before panties get twisted, I just posted crap stats to counter act other crap stats...

haha I was about to point how how ridiculous that stat was, but now I've deleted it.

[Rapcity_11]

What people need to understand about synergy is that even these individual defensive stats are heavily influenced by other defensive teammates.

On this thread, as many people have posted, Andrea has never really had trouble with his man, his problem is that he has horrendous awareness.

[prototype]

Isn't the knock on Bargnani his effort on defense not his inability to play it? He is the biggest player on our team. He has the strength, size, and speed to be a decent defender but he doesn't want to. That's when us so called "trolls" hate on him. We've seen he can be a good defender when he wants to and with his skills, there's no reason he can't be. But the guy clearly has motivation issues and only cares about his scoring. With all these advanced stats you post up, it's not going to make any of us change our views about him. It just further reinforces our points about him and that he has the ability to help the team other than shooting the ball, but he doesn't want to.

The reason we praise guys like Amir and Ed is because even though they are physically outmatched having to defend centers 80% of the time, they give a lot more effort by contesting their shots and making it tough for them to catch it. There has been countless times this season when Bargnani would just watch the opposing player on defense. Anyone who watches the game can see it, we don't need advanced stats to prove it.

[Nothingface]

Isn't the knock on Bargnani his effort on defense not his inability to play it? He is the biggest player on our team. He has the strength, size, and speed to be a decent defender but he doesn't want to. That's when us so called "trolls" hate on him. We've seen he can be a good defender when he wants to and with his skills, there's no reason he can't be. But the guy clearly has motivation issues and only cares about his scoring. With all these advanced stats you post up, it's not going to make any of us change our views about him. It just further reinforces our points about him and that he has the ability to help the team other than shooting the ball, but he doesn't want to.

I am pretty sure he would rather score than defend. But how do we know the root cause of his lethargy? Perhaps this was the way Toronto decided to tank - only worry about offense. It's not like you can tell the players to not play as well as they can. But you can influence how they play. We may see players being benched for taking bad shots, but have we seen anyone benched for bad D? Heck, our supposed best defender is a constant DNP.

I am of the opinion that everyone in the Raptors organization (coaching staff, etc) is smarter than me and you when it comes to basketball. People on the board really think they can out coach Triano? Out GM Colangelo? We have no idea what really goes on with the organization.

This is a transitional year, and the year before a likely lockout. Who here really thinks they care about winning right now? They can't be obvious and just throw every game.

[Schad]

I am pretty sure he would rather score than defend. But how do we know the root cause of his lethargy? Perhaps this was the way Toronto decided to tank - only worry about offense. It's not like you can tell the players to not play as well as they can. But you can influence how they play. We may see players being benched for taking bad shots, but have we seen anyone benched for bad D? Heck, our supposed best defender is a constant DNP.

I am of the opinion that everyone in the Raptors organization (coaching staff, etc) is smarter than me and you when it comes to basketball. People on the board really think they can out coach Triano? Out GM Colangelo? We have no idea what really goes on with the organization.

This is a transitional year, and the year before a likely lockout. Who here really thinks they care about winning right now? They can't be obvious and just throw every game.

Heh, while I appreciate his commitment to helping us tank this year, I'd have preferred that he didn't spend the preceding four years rehearsing for the moment.

Rest assured, he's going to be equally atrocious next year, as he has for the first five.

[flatjacket1]

The only ones that surprise me are Amir/Ed, and Ibaka. Although those 3 are strongest in their help D.

I hope he does get traded then Ed and Demar leave ASAP and screw our franchise even harder.

WTF - why would you hope for the demise of the franchise? So that you could be right on the Intarwebs?

I'm just simply saying that I hope everybody lobbying for Bargnani gone gets burned when we trade him and they finally realize he is one of few NBAers who not only put up with the city, but loved it.

I'm just saying most NBA teams fans that have a 25 year old player who is one of the offensive powerhouses and loves the city would be a fan favorite. People here act like Reggie > Andrea.

I'm not saying hes not terrible defensively or that hes a great rebounder but there is so much unnecessary hate here...

[darth_federer]

"Puts up with this city" are we really that terrible? Geez you would think we were Cleveland or something.
Despite so many athletes putting that perception to rest we still have guys prepetuating it when its convenient. Look a lot of people on this board seem to have a defeatist mentality. Its why we ve sucked for 15 years. Keeping guys because they like the city (that should NEVER be a consideration) instead of judging them on their play, making excuses for our terrible GM about how free agents dont want to come here, wanting to keep guys because they re good guys and not firing our GM because we re worried that his unbeatable record here (33 games under .500 and counting) is unbeatable are all why we ve sucked. You need to win period. Its why the Warriors havent attracted anyone yet despite arguably living in the best city/area in the US.

As far as Bargnani one of the worst defenders wtf you gonna do right. Is anyone really surprised? Brook Lopez has had mono this year so his rebounding stats are down. It really messed up Phil Kessel too a couple of years ago. I think he should be back to 8 + next year.

[prototype]

Isn't the knock on Bargnani his effort on defense not his inability to play it? He is the biggest player on our team. He has the strength, size, and speed to be a decent defender but he doesn't want to. That's when us so called "trolls" hate on him. We've seen he can be a good defender when he wants to and with his skills, there's no reason he can't be. But the guy clearly has motivation issues and only cares about his scoring. With all these advanced stats you post up, it's not going to make any of us change our views about him. It just further reinforces our points about him and that he has the ability to help the team other than shooting the ball, but he doesn't want to.

I am pretty sure he would rather score than defend. But how do we know the root cause of his lethargy? Perhaps this was the way Toronto decided to tank - only worry about offense. It's not like you can tell the players to not play as well as they can. But you can influence how they play. We may see players being benched for taking bad shots, but have we seen anyone benched for bad D? Heck, our supposed best defender is a constant DNP.

I am of the opinion that everyone in the Raptors organization (coaching staff, etc) is smarter than me and you when it comes to basketball. People on the board really think they can out coach Triano? Out GM Colangelo? We have no idea what really goes on with the organization.

This is a transitional year, and the year before a likely lockout. Who here really thinks they care
about winning right now? They can't be obvious and just throw every game.

Well Bargnani has stated in a couple of interviews about being lazy on defense and rebounding so he knows he needs to give an effort in those areas but he still doesn't. Even at the end of last season he said he was going to work on those areas in the summer playing with his national team so he knew where his weakness lies yet he hasn't shown any improvement. As a matter of fact, he looks worse than seasons before. I doubt Jay and BC told him to not give a **** about D and just score the ball since they want to prove to all the doubters he is a good player and having him jack up shots is not helping their case.

I don't really get why you brought the point about being smarter than anyone up since I never stated anything of that nature. All I have spoken about was effort and trying lol.

I am pretty sure people would be happy to lose games and be happy with Bargnani if he was showing any improvement on the areas of the game he's weak at. Think back to the season when we were losing but Bosh was improving constantly, the board was actually hopeful about the team and there wasn't as much anger directed toward any player.

[flatjacket1]

"Puts up with this city" are we really that terrible? Geez you would think we were Cleveland or something.
Despite so many athletes putting that perception to rest we still have guys prepetuating it when its convenient. Look a lot of people on this board seem to have a defeatist mentality. Its why we ve sucked for 15 years. Keeping guys because they like the city (that should NEVER be a consideration) instead of juding them on their play, making excuses for our terrible GM about how free agents dont want to come here, wanting to keep guys because they re good guys are all why we ve sucked. You need to win period. Its why the Warriors havent attracted anyone yet despite arguably living in the best city/area in the US.

So if we were in a similar position to Miami and had enough cap space for 3 stars, would they choose us or Miami? We have quite the history of being refused because we are in Canada, just look at the other thread that is currently active about this. Sucking for 15 years is bad but NYK sucked for a long time and out of nowhere Amare signs there and Carmelo demands a trade there. (That is a better example of a big market's advantage)

I'm not saying that all Americans hate us, but a good portion would not resign in Toronto with the ability to leave for better teams and better markets. Small market teams such as the Bucks or Minnesota suffer similarly, but still have some things Canada doesn't offer.

When Ed Davis was drafted all of the questions from the media were about updating his passport and going to Canada. When I watch recaps of games here on ESPN the ratio of Raptor clips to the opponent was 8:0.

To say that some American players don't devalue Toronto versus another losing franchise (Cleveland) because its in Canada is crazy. "Even the water taste different"

TBH even if I was a free agent, being fourth generation Canadian raised my whole life in Toronto, I would choose an American team with a similar record to the Raptors over the Raptors for the same money. Even as a Canadian. I know I don't speak for everybody but still, having a young player who has made strides (in scoring) who loves the city should get more respect than he does.

[MEDIC]

Not surprising. I've always said Bargnani was our best 1 on 1 post defender. Ed & Amir are just too small.

Like others have said.....it's the help defense that is the problem.

[10DeRozan10]

Not surprising. I've always said Bargnani was our best 1 on 1 post defender. Ed & Amir are just too small.

Like others have said.....it's the help defense that is the problem.

I presume you mean physically?

Height and length wise Davis isn't small at all.