It feels like 4 on 5 when BOGANS is in the Game

SexualChocolate · Post #1 » by **SexualChocolate** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:11 pm

The Man only makes 37% of his 3 point shots and only shoots 39% from the field period. Its an Embarrassment to the SG position becuase he doesn't even take that many shots and is averaging 17minutes a Game as a freaking STARTER!

Defensive Specialist you say? PLEASE!?!? His Defense isn't all that great. He's a Token Defener using his Vet Status to get by. He hasn't really locked down or even remotely stopped anyone from doing ANYTHING.

Getting big leads on us early in the PLAYOFFS will happen due to the fact that you only have 3 reliable scorers in your starting lineup along with Noah doing more than his actual job is on the glass, boards, and in Defense.

The top Playoff Teams will indeed double and tripple Rose just like Indiana and Philly did to beat us. They may not excercise it NOW, but they will LATER. For us to be sussessful and not have an upset happen, Korver and Watson will have to play their Best Games because Bogans can and has been left Wide Open and he rarely completes more than 2 to 3 shots per game.

kyrv · Post #2 » by **kyrv** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:29 pm

Bogans:

1) spreads the floor

2) does everything the coach asks of him

3) provides toughness

4) provides chemistry

Not sure what more we could possibly want.

biggestbullsfan · Post #3 » by **biggestbullsfan** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:32 pm

kyrv wrote:Bogans:

1) spreads the floor

2) does everything the coach asks of him

3) provides toughness

4) provides chemistry

Not sure what more we could possibly want.

Thing is, there are 3 other players not starting who could do it better except 2. And 2 only comes with becuase of their history.

1. Not really when he isnt hitting, which is 90% of the time.

2. Meh. Thibs needs to move on.

3. umm........really?

4. Well I could provide the same thing. Throw me at SG and I can shoot the open ball and miss, or pass. IDK how that can be replaced by almost any guard on our bench. Including Butler.

JayT44 · Post #4 » by **JayT44** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:34 pm

Bogans is playing fine. Don't get me wrong, he was awful during the first half of the year. AWFUL. But now he's actually putting the ball on the floor, being aggressive, making shots, driving into the paint, and he's been a pretty decent defender all year long. There isn't much to complain about with Bogans anymore, so can we just stop? I'd rather have him play along side Rose and Deng than with the second team.

$0.02

jc23 · Post #5 » by **jc23** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:36 pm

Thought we were past this by now. Bogans is our starting 2 for this season and for the playoffs but lets hope his minutes are shortened in the post season.

kyrv · Post #6 » by **kyrv** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:45 pm

biggestbullsfan wrote:
kyrv wrote:Bogans:

1) spreads the floor

2) does everything the coach asks of him

3) provides toughness

4) provides chemistry

Not sure what more we could possibly want.

Thing is, there are 3 other players not starting who could do it better except 2. And 2 only comes with becuase of their history.

1. Not really when he isnt hitting, which is 90% of the time.

2. Meh. Thibs needs to move on.

3. umm........really?

4. Well I could provide the same thing. Throw me at SG and I can shoot the open ball and miss, or pass. IDK how that can be replaced by almost any guard on our bench. Including Butler.

You're not wrong.

The previous coaches who had Bogans kind of shelved him for the playoffs, when the games really really mattered. Not sure we will see that.

jcuuofd · Post #7 » by **jcuuofd** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:46 pm

I agree that the Bulls are playing 4 on 5 when Bogans is on the floor. He does have a decent shooting percentage, but you have to keep in mind that almost all of his shots are not contested. He basically just sits out by the 3 point line.

Korver should be moved into the starting lineup. He is much more active on offense and is much better at running off screens. Most of his shots are contested and he still has a better shooting percentage. I don't think the Bulls would be getting off to a slow start on offense if Korver was starting.

Korver's defense is really not that bad and at times it can actually be good. When he gets burned though he really gets burned and it sticks out more than when Bogans does. It is more demoralizing than when Bogans gets burned because usually the player makes a poster dunk. It doesn't happen frequently throughout a game though so ultimately it is only 2 points which he can make up on the other end.

Cliff Levingston · Post #8 » by **Cliff Levingston** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:47 pm

biggestbullsfan wrote:
kyrv wrote:Bogans:

1) spreads the floor

2) does everything the coach asks of him

3) provides toughness

4) provides chemistry

Not sure what more we could possibly want.

1. Not really when he isnt hitting, which is 90% of the time.

100 minus 37 = 90?

biggestbullsfan wrote:2. Meh. Thibs needs to move on.

Not counting Korver, Brewer and Watson who are key contributors off the bench at crucial positions, what do you suggest he does? Put Rasual Butler in there? What does that really accomplish?

biggestbullsfan wrote:3. umm........really?

Agreed. How do you quantify toughness, and does Bogans really provide toughness? Probably not.

biggestbullsfan wrote:4. Well I could provide the same thing. Throw me at SG and I can shoot the open ball and miss, or pass. IDK how that can be replaced by almost any guard on our bench. Including Butler.

Chemistry is important. Not only does the starting lineup know how to play with Bogans in there, what does it say to the rest of the team if Thibodeau puts a guy in there who was cut by his former (non-playoff) team and signed off the street? Bogans does everything asked of him and has only got better at most facets of the game as the season has gone on; taking him out would be sending the wrong message to the team, which is much more important than the small possibility that Butler is a significant upgrade.

MAQ · Post #9 » by **MAQ** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:48 pm

jc23 wrote:Thought we were past this by now. Bogans is our starting 2 for this season and for the playoffs but lets hope his minutes are shortened in the post season.

Definitely. All the Bogans talk in the post game thread made me feel like I was back in December.

Bitching about Bogans was so 2010.

musiqsoulchild · Post #10 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:51 pm

Quick question:

How many teams play 5 on 5?

As in how many teams have near perfection in their starting lineups.

I am just curious when this has become the GOLD standard for starting 5 man units.

kyrv · Post #11 » by **kyrv** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:52 pm

100 minus 37 = 90?

I (possibly mis) read that as 90% of the time he's not hot from 3 point land.

Not counting Korver, Brewer and Watson who are key contributors off the bench at crucial positions, what do you suggest he does?

Cliff, why on earth would we not count three players who are possibly *all* better than Bogans?

Chemistry is important.

It is, but winning is more important. The Bulls have been getting off to poor starts and not showing chemistry to start the game.

And before someone brings up that Bogans can't be blamed for anything, if he's not part of the solution, he's probably part of the problem.

Post #12 » by **Rerisen** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:52 pm

The Bulls have the 2nd best point differential in the league. When Bogans is on the floor they have a point differential that would come out to 10th in the league. :-?

boogydown · Post #13 » by **boogydown** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:55 pm

Usually why Bogans hits 2 3's opening the game.

kyrv · Post #14 » by **kyrv** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:56 pm

Rerisen wrote:The Bulls have the 2nd best point differential in the league. When Bogans is on the floor they have a point differential that would come out to 10th in the league.

What's your point? (oh, point...a pun

)

DRose4MVP · Post #15 » by **DRose4MVP** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:57 pm

Yeah, lets mess with the lineup when were in 1st place with what, 8 games left? Sounds like a great idea.

kyrv · Post #16 » by **kyrv** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:00 pm

DRose4MVP wrote:Yeah, lets mess with the lineup when were in 1st place with what, 8 games left? Sounds like a great idea.

No, let's lose the 1 seed because we wouldn't adjust with 9 games left.

The are winning this year BECAUSE OF Bogans. Let's be clear. :thumbsup:

SexualChocolate · Post #17 » by **SexualChocolate** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:02 pm

kyrv wrote:
DRose4MVP wrote:Yeah, lets mess with the lineup when were in 1st place with what, 8 games left? Sounds like a great idea.

No, let's lose the 1 seed because we wouldn't adjust with 9 games left.

The are winning this year BECAUSE OF Bogans. Let's be clear.

LOL!

Good Point!

Post #18 » by **Rerisen** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:02 pm

kyrv wrote:
Rerisen wrote:The Bulls have the 2nd best point differential in the league. When Bogans is on the floor they have a point differential that would come out to 10th in the league.

What's your point? (oh, point...a pun )

At this point I don't know why people continue to be surprised when the starters "come out slow". They aren't coming out slow, they are just playing to the level they have all year with Bogans.

They are still a winning team with him on the floor, but just not nearly so dominant a team as they are overall and even more so when he's on the bench.

musiqsoulchild · Post #19 » by **musiqsoulchild** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:03 pm

kyrv wrote:
DRose4MVP wrote:Yeah, lets mess with the lineup when were in 1st place with what, 8 games left? Sounds like a great idea.

No, let's lose the 1 seed because we wouldn't adjust with 9 games left.

The are winning this year BECAUSE OF Bogans. Let's be clear.

So, are you saying Kyrv that " If we lose the first seed, it's because Thibs played Bogans as starter at the 2 guard"?

Post #20 » by **kingkirk** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:08 pm

This thread is about 2 months old.

Keith, whilst not a great player has been more than servicable of late.

When is 37% considered poor 3 point shooting? I would also expect his FG% to mirror his 3P% seeing most of his shots a deep ones from the corner or on the 45.

Is he replaceable? Most definitly.

Look at the other contenders, they have weak guys in their starting unit aswell.

The Heat play Damp and Bibby, Boston has Kristic, LA has Fisher and Artest to an extent.

I aint worried.