Would you Keep Bryan (with impassioned case for keeping him)

raps95 · Post #21 » by **raps95** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:12 pm

sanity wrote:You're comparing apples to oranges.

The makeups of those other teams you've listed had entirely different philosophies behind their construction.

Maybe Bryan has somewhat turned the corner from his initial "I'll change way basketball is being played with a bunch of finesse sissy players", but it in no way should that ever excuse past years of failure. The results speaks for themselves... Its similar to holding onto the idea that Bargnani will turn into a more defensive-able basketball player. Sure, it can happen, but is it fair to allow the team to suck in the process for another couple years to see? Bryan coming back isn't fair to the organization and if any thing, gives him a greater margin for error because it would be made clear that to MLSE there isn't an alternative to him.

Kapono signing
JO signing
Marion/Banks trade (sending our 1st round pick with O'neal)
Turkoglu
Getting value for Bosh - a last ditch effort to sign him to the max, then bash him to the media

I'm sure he wouldn't have lasted long on any other organization

I appreciate the thought put in here but I have to disagree.

Using all of these bad signings/trades as a reason he needs to go is flawed, in my opinion, since all teams make bad signings. You go through the entire league and you'll find more than one example of a GM making a bad signing. What should get you worked up is if that GM then proceeds to allow said bad signings to destroy his team. Again, JO gone, Hedo gone, TJ gone. Kapono gone. All perfectly logical moves at the time they were acquired (though I do think there was an opinion we overpaid Kapono) that didn't work out and Bryan dutifully back-tracked on them without harming our future flexibility.

Also, I bring back up my point from my original post. How does that Charlie V and Ben Gordon off-season signing spree look on Joe Dumars now? How smart did Danny Ainge look his first few years in the position? What did Kobe think of Mitch Kupchak for those two or three years after Shaq left?

Just because a person makes a bad decision once (or more) doesn't preclude them from making good decisions in the future. Especially when they have the track record to back it up like Bryan has from his first year with us and his last years in Phoenix.

sanity · Post #22 » by **sanity** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:24 pm

raps95 wrote:Just because a person makes a bad decision once (or more) doesn't preclude them from making good decisions in the future.

I think this sentiment is why I cannot agree with you. Bad decisions means being held accountable or being punished (ie. fired) for it. Rob Babcock made bad decisions. Should he still be managing this team?

LodzBaluty · Post #23 » by **LodzBaluty** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:25 pm

What he has done to our organization has been a slap to the face.

You are saying that us giving him a 2 year contract is a slap? Are you kidding me? ...with his track record with us, he should check that ego at the door and beg to be in a position to correct the mess he got us into.

Let him find a job elsewhere... he is not going to get 5 million a season elsewhere. The NBA is facing a lockout... no one is going to pony up MLSE money. They are not standing in line to overpay for a GM that has shown more propensity for style than substance. Without daddy he is one of the worst GM's in the league.

No one has asked for permission to even talk to Bryan. (If they did, believe me Grange and his cronies would have put it in print). He is a lame duck. Only Toronto does not get that. Bryan is going to have a lot of golf time coming up.

LodzBaluty · Post #24 » by **LodzBaluty** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:30 pm

Just remember that MLSE paid through the nose to get the Raptors to where they are today.

The money kept flowing and flowing... Bryan had no problem spending it and trading away picks.

raps95 · Post #25 » by **raps95** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:39 pm

sanity wrote:
raps95 wrote:Just because a person makes a bad decision once (or more) doesn't preclude them from making good decisions in the future.

I think this sentiment is why I cannot agree with you. Bad decisions means being held accountable or being punished (ie. fired) for it. Rob Babcock made bad decisions. Should he still be managing this team?

While I don't agree with it, I can see your argument.

Couple points of clarification though:

Are you saying that a two time executive of the year with a track record of success should be given an equal amount of rope as a person who has never been a GM in the league before? By comparing Colangelo and Babcock that's what you're doing. Untold numbers of years experience versus 18 months? To me, the former deserves a bit more leeway.

Also, can you agree that following your logic about bad decisions needing to be punished would require the Pistons to fire Joe Dumars now? And should have required the Celtics to fire Danny Ainge for under-achieving with Pierce, Al Jefferson, Rondo just before he made the fateful trades that turned the franchise around.

Those are kind of niggling little details though. I think my larger thesis here is that, failing getting one of the top three nba GM's, what would really be accomplished by this kind of move other than throwing your franchise into turmoil? Might be a good thing if you think your org has gone stagnant, but I think the last thing anybody would ever be able to accuse BC of is becoming stagnant.

Post #26 » by **darth_federer** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:39 pm

Its time to move on. Hes as overrated as they come. Hes basically putting us in a similar situation to where we were when he got here. He screwed that up after 5 years and I dont have faith that he ll finally get it right. Some of you might be fooled by the fancy suits and the used car salesman talk but Im not.

JN · Post #27 » by JN » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:43 pm

I got bored with the agenda after a few paragraphs -- . "fully fixing mistakes", labelling any criticism as "blindly hating" and "insane". It lacked any merit. A case can be made to keep BC, even if I disagree. The agenda laden plea that you presented is not it and was not worth my time to read any further.

JN · Post #28 » by JN » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:47 pm

Reignman wrote:That's really the main concern from what I've seen. If the fans had a guarantee that BC would trade Bargs I'm pretty sure 80% of the people that want him out would change their minds.

Easily my biggest concern, and the OP got around the issue by calling people insane. Now that's a logical argument.

LodzBaluty · Post #29 » by **LodzBaluty** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:51 pm

I remember the "please wait five years.... wait five years...then we can properly evaluate", well we have.

At this point the excuses are getting embarrassing. I honestly am ashamed for some of you.

SDM · Post #30 » by **SDM** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:57 pm

Bryan Colangelo is the outsourced IT firm your company uses to handle in-house tech issues. Sure, all of their frontline staff went to nice schools and are well-educated. Hell, they even have a great logo, but when you get the invoice and see that they've billed you $1000 to install a sound card, you feel violated and that you could have done the same with much, much less. The time has come to cut ties and let this pricey huckster run another franchise into the ground.

team edward · Post #31 » by **team edward** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:57 pm

LodzBaluty wrote:I remember the "please wait five years.... wait five years...then we can properly evaluate", well we have.

At this point the excuses are getting embarrassing. I honestly am ashamed for some of you.

In BC's defence re: Bargnani, has he made excuses for him this season? I recall him calling him out and saying he needs to defend or rebound, can't remember exactly. I also don't recall any rumours of sweet deals to trade Bargs away. Maybe before the draft he will make a move with him, although that would require board approval and he's not going to get board approval (or probably even ask for it) until he's re-signed.

LodzBaluty · Post #32 » by **LodzBaluty** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:59 pm

The biggest problem I fell that we have so many young fans that I feel some of you got imprinted on Bryan. Like your first sexual experience.

It's wrong to feel that Basketball will not survive in Toronto without Bryan. We can't keep being this pathetic. First it was Isiah Thomas, than Dameon, then Carter, then Bosh, now its Bryan.

Can we just grow the **** up please? As a fanbase.

SDM · Post #33 » by **SDM** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:00 pm

team edward wrote:
LodzBaluty wrote:I remember the "please wait five years.... wait five years...then we can properly evaluate", well we have.

At this point the excuses are getting embarrassing. I honestly am ashamed for some of you.

In BC's defence re: Bargnani, has he made excuses for him this season? I recall him calling him out and saying he needs to defend or rebound, can't remember exactly.

This is meaningless because there's no tangible accountability. Colangelo can't will Bargnani into a competent defender and rebounder, but he certainly isn't giving him the tools either if Bargs still plays his 40+ minutes without noticeable improvement in his game. Yes, Triano's the coach, but Colangelo can change that in a second if he thinks one of his better players is getting a raw deal.

Brinbe · Post #34 » by **Brinbe** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:05 pm

I don't think it hurts to look around at who else is out there. But honestly, I have no problem with re-upping him.

whoknows · Post #35 » by **whoknows** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:10 pm

Face it - BC is the only name from this pathetic organization that gets respect in the league.
If he decides to leave the things will get worst fast.
First the value of the franchise will get a lot lower, since no decent GM would want to touch it.
And how many Canadian owners do you know that really would want to spend money on the NBA laughing stock franchise?
I think that if he leaves in bad terms, it is the beginning of the end for the raps stay in Canada. He will leave with the last shred of credibility for a franchise that has always had hard time to attract any real talent.

elmer_yuck · Post #36 » by **elmer_yuck** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:17 pm

Why would anyone be impassioned about keeping Bryan Colangelo.
At best you might leaning towards keeping him, or willing to keep him.
Impassioned seems a bit over the top.

LodzBaluty · Post #37 » by **LodzBaluty** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:18 pm

You guys are not raptors fans... reading this thread is making me sick. The reason it is a pathetic organization is because of Bryan's moves. He is sleek suit con man who does not know his basketball as well as his strut.

I don't want to be laughed at anymore. The Raptors were not laughed at under Grunwald, but we became a joke under Colangelo. The worst attended away games in the league. No one found us relevant during Bryan's tenure. We were the euro team, the team who you could move your international player to if he was not working out.

The JOKE is Colangelo's tenure. When we had Carter, our away games were as popular in other destinations as if the Lakers were coming to town.

I am sick of this thread and you fake Raptor fans... who worship your foolish idol. I have been here since day one, and I know Bryan is just a zit on the ass of this race horse. I am out.

(Our fans are as pathetic as this organization. Both are enabling each other.)

timdunkit · Post #38 » by **timdunkit** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:24 pm

LodzBaluty wrote:You guys are not raptors fans... reading this thread is making me sick. The reason it is a pathetic organization is because of Bryan's moves. He is sleek suit con man who does not know his basketball as well as his strut.

I don't want to be laughed at anymore. The Raptors were not laughed at under Grunwald, but we became a joke under Colangelo. The worst attended away games in the league. No one found us relevant during Bryan's tenure. We were the euro team, the team who you could move your international player to if he was not working out.

The JOKE is Colangelo's tenure. When we had Carter, our away games were as popular in other destinations as if the Lakers were coming to town.

I am sick of this thread and you fake Raptor fans... who worship your foolish idol. I have been here since day one, and I know Bryan is just a zit on the ass of this race horse. I am out.

(Our fans are as pathetic as this organization.)

Does that include you as well? Or is that in effect since you left? But if you left, does that make you a real fan?

Anyways ...

LodzBaluty · Post #39 » by **LodzBaluty** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:26 pm

I can't leave... its impossible. Help me, to help you... please. Help me make this forum a place where we are talking about the playoffs.

Cause this crap I keep reading about us needing to hold on to Bryan at all costs, is going to make me slit my wrists. (that is joke, but its that depressing to see this forum so disappointed every year.)

Reignman · Post #40 » by **Reignman** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:26 pm

LodzBaluty wrote:You guys are not raptors fans... reading this thread is making me sick. The reason it is a pathetic organization is because of Bryan's moves. He is sleek suit con man who does not know his basketball as well as his strut.

I don't want to be laughed at anymore. The Raptors were not laughed at under Grunwald, but we became a joke under Colangelo. The worst attended away games in the league. No one found us relevant during Bryan's tenure. We were the euro team, the team who you could move your international player to if he was not working out.

The JOKE is Colangelo's tenure. When we had Carter, our away games were as popular in other destinations as if the Lakers were coming to town.

I am sick of this thread and you fake Raptor fans... who worship your foolish idol. I have been here since day one, and I know Bryan is just a zit on the ass of this race horse. I am out.

(Our fans are as pathetic as this organization. Both are enabling each other.)

Honestly, you cry way too much. Are you a dude or a lady?