Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

[bboyskinnylegs]

Walker seems like a stronger version of Aaron Brooks. Super quick, great handles, can get his shot off and score from anywhere (although not in the most efficient way), can pass the ball but isn't the best distributor, and will likely struggle defensively against bigger players.

[daner01]

We should draft somebody with attitude and big cahones who will not be afraid to get in someones face when they are playing like sh*t. Someone like KG.

[MEDIC]

I think Kemba's going to be a good pro. No way his explosiveness doesn't translate. With that said, I still don't want him with our pick unless we drop to 6.

Same. We need a home run if we're picking #3 or later but at #6 I'd consider him. We gotta go for one of the project bigs and hope we land our own Marc Gasol or DeAndre Jordan.

Yeah, I'd consider picking him at 6. Along with Terrence Jones (& whoever else drops).

Whoever the BPA is. Kemba will definitely be one of them.

BTW, I always get you two mixed up. Both started in 2004 & very similar usernames....

[MEDIC]

Man, I wouldn't infer anything out of that picture you posted, they are on different planes and not even standing up right. I'd much rather use the team picture to make a guess.

He's referring to the end of the youtube video where Kanter & Jones are standing near one another.

[JYD]

Walker seems like a stronger version of Aaron Brooks. Super quick, great handles, can get his shot off and score from anywhere (although not in the most efficient way), can pass the ball but isn't the best distributor, and will likely struggle defensively against bigger players.

Agreed he can get his shot off from anywhere, but if his percentages from range stay consistent, he won't even be taking any shots outside mid-range ones. College 3 he shoots 33%, which is a long 2 in the NBA. So it looks the area he's going to be operating from is mid-range and in. I think he'll be shooting Ray Felton type percentages (though even Felton's early career 3 pt percentage of about 30% is wishful thinking for Walker) with similar shot distribution, which is not particularly good for a non-pure PG.

Just wanted to make that note, sounds like we basically agree on Walker.

[JYD]

Yeah, I'd consider picking him at 6. Along with Terrence Jones (& whoever else drops).

.

Though I don't really want Walker, at 6 I could understand, but Terrence Jones I'd stay away from. He's got a poor motor/effort is inconsistent, and has no outstanding skill to hang his hat on. I might be more tempted to reach on a player like Kawhi Leonard if you want 3/4..at least he's highly athletic with a great motor and rebounding skills.

[MEDIC]

here are some evan daniels (Scout.com) tweets:

"Got to see Kanter recently and he was as dominate of as post prospect as I've seen in recent years. 1-on-1 in the post it's guaranteed pts"

"He's a big time rebounder as well. I expect him to average more rebounds than Cousins did for UK this past season."
http://www.kentuckysportsnetwork.com/forum/topics/enes-kanter?id=2148737%3ATopic%3A347642&page=1#comments

Here are some more comments from posters on this Kentucky fan website:

"apparently josh tweeted out that kanter is a monster and the best big he has played against."

"I saw that... and that's coming from a guy that played against Cousins AND Patterson in practice last year..."

Take it for what it's worth.

Everything I have read about Kanter suggests he is a hightly skilled/ highly cerebral player. He might not have the perfect height or athleticism, but sometimes BBIQ trumps those things.

[JYD]

See, I don't think it does MEDIC. I think it can make up somewhat, but I think if you don't pass the NBA quickness/length/hops test, you're severely limited in what you can do in the NBA. Again, not to insult Kanter with Hoffa comparisons, but Hoffa beat up college players pretty well too..I think there's a lesson to be learned there that Raptorfans specifically should not have to be taught.

A college player being impressed by a guy they play against is an opinion drawn from a much smaller range of experience, compared to NBA scouts who are exposed to many more players in different settings over a longer period of time.

When I start to see NBA scouts/execs making comments like that (they probably won't unless they're trying to misdirect, unless they aren't drafting anywhere near us), then I might perk up somewhat.

[Reef]

See, I don't think it does MEDIC. I think it can make up somewhat, but I think if you don't pass the NBA quickness/length/hops test, you're severely limited in what you can do in the NBA. Again, not to insult Kanter with Hoffa comparisons, but Hoffa beat up college players pretty well too..I think there's a lesson to be learned there that Raptorfans specifically should not have to be taught.

A college player being impressed by a guy they play against is an opinion drawn from a much smaller range of experience, compared to NBA scouts who are exposed to many more players in different settings over a longer period of time.

When I start to see NBA scouts/execs making comments like that (they probably won't unless they're trying to misdirect, unless they aren't drafting anywhere near us), then I might perk up somewhat.

Look at guys like Bird, Stockton, Nash. They weren't blessed physically but were all stars.

Hoffa played for BYU against inferior competition. He was never known to be skilled. He was just a bruiser.

Kanter dominated the top competition wherever he's played. He also has very good post moves and footwork, which Hoffa didn't have.

[MEDIC]

Everything I read about Kanter's height measurements from the Nike Amare Skills Academy in June 2010 suggests that he is 6'11" in shoes (if he has not grown).

http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2010/06/28/nike_skills_academies_complete_high_school,_college_rosters

Kentucky freshman Enes Kanter measured in at 6-11 and 261 pounds. Many thought he wouldn’t even be 6-10.

http://www.nationofblue.com/enes-kanter-new-big-man-campus-1660/

Kanter was at the Amar'e Stoudemire camp in Chicago this weekend. During the event Enes Kanter measured in at 6'-11" and weighed 261lbs.

Here's another short video I found from highschool in 2009. Doesn't show much, but he has nice shooting mechanics:

http://www.premierball.com/video-on-enes-kanter-future-nba/

I think he's the one everyone is waiting to get their hands on for pre-draft. I really think if he is there at 3 (& we're drafting at 3), he's the guy we'll be taking.

[MEDIC]

See, I don't think it does MEDIC. I think it can make up somewhat, but I think if you don't pass the NBA quickness/length/hops test, you're severely limited in what you can do in the NBA. Again, not to insult Kanter with Hoffa comparisons, but Hoffa beat up college players pretty well too..I think there's a lesson to be learned there that Raptorfans specifically should not have to be taught.

I don't even know why people keep mentioning Hoffa. He has nothing to do with the Enes situation.

Hoffa was a dolt. His ability to succeed in the NBA had more to do with his mental capacity than it did his physical attributes. Everybody (fans, scouts) knew Hoffa wasn't a lottery pick. Somehow our horrible GM decided he was our pick.

Josh Harrelson had a pretty good season this year. He talks about Kanter like he is some unstoppable basketball god. He suggests that Kanter might be the best big man in all of the NCAA. He states that Kanter is the best big man he has ever played against (He played against Cousins & Patterson). He states continuously that Kanter helped him elevate his game & tought him many, many things. There are many other Kentucky players that echo these types of comments.

I've also read similar comments from people that saw him practice outside of the Kentucky organization.

I'm sorry, but if Hoffa had played/ practiced with this Kentucky team, you would have never, never heard any of these accolades. Hoffa would probably have been playing behind Harrelson.

You also add the fact that Babcock was running the team & had not scouted these guys. I don't expect that BC would have EVER drafted Hoffa. I believe in BC's ability to scout/ evaluate talent. If he selects Kanter, I'll believe that we have a player on our hands.

This was a very, very talented Kentucky team. Possibly the most talent in the country. This isn't BYU.

[JYD]

Look at guys like Bird, Stockton, Nash. They weren't blessed physically but were all stars.

Hoffa played for BYU against inferior competition. He was never known to be skilled. He was just a bruiser.

Kanter dominated the top competition wherever he's played. He also has very good post moves and footwork, which Hoffa didn't have.

You can't compare bigs to PGs, first of all, but even then for every Stockton and Nash there have been a million unathletic PGs who did nothing.

And Larry Bird was a once in a lifetime offensive player...really?

You can't just cherry pick players who you feel fall outside the criteria I mentioned to make an argument Kanter is going to be good. Fact is, typically players who lack the traits I mentioned are drafted much later, if at all, because of the high chance they will be a bust, or a much lesser player than some hope for.

BTW what is this top competition Kanter played against...kids? I'm sure they were skilled kids, but it's still easily to push skilled kids around with superior size. Again, Hoffa did that against college players even with a worse offensive skillset than Kanter. In the U-18 video I saw, Kanter wasn't bedazzling anyone with post magic, it's a combination of decent footwork and his superior size.

I don't think my message is getting though. I'm not saying he'll be as bad as Hoffa, I'm saying he shares a lot of physical shortcomings similar to Hoffa (and similar to other players who were severely limited in the NBA by these shortcomings) that should be blazing warning signs, *especially* to the fans of a team who went through the Hoffa experience.

[MEDIC]

You can't just cherry pick players who you feel fall outside the criteria I mentioned to make an argument Kanter is going to be good. Fact is, typically players who lack the traits I mentioned are drafted much later, if at all, because of the high chance they will be a bust, or a much lesser player than some hope for.

Well, you're "cherry picking" with the Hoffa comparison. Again, Hoffa`s problem wasn`t his size or athleticism. He simply didn`t have the BBIQ or mental quickness to be an effective NBA player. There are lots of big men that are shorter & less athletic than Hoffa that have found a home in the NBA.

BTW what is this top competition Kanter played against...kids? I'm sure they were skilled kids, but it's still easily to push skilled kids around with superior size. Again, Hoffa did that against college players even with a worse offensive skillset than Kanter. In the U-18 video I saw, Kanter wasn't bedazzling anyone with post magic, it's a combination of decent footwork and his superior size

.

He played against Harrelson all season, who is a big dude & had a pretty good season in the NCAA. He also played against Sullinger at the Hoops Summit. It has also been stated that Nazr Mohammed came & practiced with the team & basically Kanter took it to him.

I don't think my message is getting though. I'm not saying he'll be as bad as Hoffa, I'm saying he shares a lot of physical shortcomings similar to Hoffa (and similar to other players who were severely limited in the NBA by these shortcomings) that should be blazing warning signs, *especially* to the fans of a team who went through the Hoffa experience.

It depends on why you think Hoffa failed in the NBA. Personally, I don`t think it has anything to do with his physical attributes. Basically, you`re suggesting if Hoffa was 6`11 with long arms, he`d be a stud in the NBA. I don`t buy it at all. I think he`d still be out of the league........just like POB.

[JYD]

No, that's not what I'm suggesting. But he would definitely have been more effective.

And how am I cherry picking anything with Hoffa? Name me some good C's with mediocre wingpan, hops and quickness. Again, try and look at these 3 traits specifically, don't ignore any.

I definitely have more to add on Kanter, but I must go to work, and shall return later!

[Dr Positivity]

Kanter reminds me of Greg Monroe and Luis Scola, to name two players

[andyo]

First of all, there is a small number of "good centers" in this league. Just look at the list of centers in the league today, there's a huge drop-off after the first tier of good centers that provide all of those key traits to a winning team that you would expect form a center, i.e protecting the rim, rebounding the ball, footwork around the basket.

Just briefly looking at the pre-draft measurements from a few years ago, Al Horford, Kaman, and Noah all have a comparable wingspan/height that Kanter has. In terms of athleticism, hops, or mobility, I'm not sure I can comment on Kanter being better than either 3, or worse. But the notion that he doesn't have the length to play the center position (ignoring the strength required to play the position) seems unjustified.

Furthermore, the Hoffa comparisons are a bit unfair to Kanter at this point in his career. Kanter is 18 years old, Hoffa was drafted as a senior (I believe that he even graduated at a later age than his peers).

Also, there should be no questions about his age because he was born in Switzerland. I can't say the same about Biyongo.

At the end of the day... I'm not a huge fan of Kanter either, but I don't see any reason why he should be less of a candidate at #3 than Val or Biyombo.

[TDotRep]

He shouldn't, In terms of an all round game kanter ranks well above the 2.

[MEDIC]

No, that's not what I'm suggesting. But he would definitely have been more effective.

And how am I cherry picking anything with Hoffa? Name me some good C's with mediocre wingpan, hops and quickness. Again, try and look at these 3 traits specifically, don't ignore any.

I definitely have more to add on Kanter, but I must go to work, and shall return later!

Well, I think that's the issue. The guy you have chose (Hoffa) is just a terrible comparison.

One guy I can think of is Kaman. He is about an inch taller (assuming Kanter is 6'10"), but his wingspan is about an inch shorter.

Greg Monroe isn't all that athletic. His standing reach is actually slightly shorter. Monroe was drafted so high mostly because of his high BBIQ for a C.

Noah isn't much of a leaper. His measurements are almost identical, except Enes has much more muscle/ strength.

If Kevin Love was 6'10" with a 7'1 wingspan, he could play some C. He weighs slightly less than Kanter (255 vs 265ish), but is 1.5 inches shorter & has a wingspan that is almost 2 inches shorter.

I'd say he's somewhere in between a Kaman & a Kevin Love.

[CanadaB-Ball]

No, that's not what I'm suggesting. But he would definitely have been more effective.

And how am I cherry picking anything with Hoffa? Name me some good C's with mediocre wingpan, hops and quickness. Again, try and look at these 3 traits specifically, don't ignore any.

I definitely have more to add on Kanter, but I must go to work, and shall return later!

Greg Monroe.

[yayotube]

Kendrick Perkins is a good C who doesnt have great hops or athleticism. Not sure what his wingspan is