Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

This entire draft outside of the top 2 is scary. I hate this draft.

[Reef]

I would just avoid the whole Euros bigs mess and take Brandon Knight, Terrence Jones, Reggie Jackson, or Tristan Thompson in that order after Irving/Williams. All have NBA bodies and can ball, making them likely sure things to make it in the NBA while simaltaneously giving them all-star upside.

Terrence Jones with the 3rd?! He really started to disappear towards the end of the season and there's lots of questions about whether he can play the 3.

Reggie Jackson??!!!!!!!! With the 3rd??????????!!!!

Tristan Thompson is redundant when we have Ed and Amir.

[Rapsobsessed7]

for me its this. If we remain at #3

Enes Kanter and see during workouts things about him like defense, rebounding, post play, ect and make sure his knee checks out.

If its deemed he cant play D well and is all offense, you go with Brandon Knight

So Enes Kanter until workouts and then if he has a bad workout then its Brandon Knight for me.

[RaptorReloaded]

Why trade the pick? I never said trade the pick.. Keep the pick, draft Knight or Walker and target a big who's proven in this league. Who I don't know but I'd rather someone who's been in the league for a bit and learned the ropes then anyone in this draft. To be frank they all suck...

[Indeed]

for me its this. If we remain at #3

Enes Kanter and see during workouts things about him like defense, rebounding, post play, ect and make sure his knee checks out.

If its deemed he cant play D well and is all offense, you go with Brandon Knight

So Enes Kanter until workouts and then if he has a bad workout then its Brandon Knight for me.

He seems to be a good man defender, however he is slow, and with our poor perimeter defense, I doubt he makes any difference.

[Rapsobsessed7]

for me its this. If we remain at #3

Enes Kanter and see during workouts things about him like defense, rebounding, post play, ect and make sure his knee checks out.

If its deemed he cant play D well and is all offense, you go with Brandon Knight

So Enes Kanter until workouts and then if he has a bad workout then its Brandon Knight for me.

He seems to be a good man defender, however he is slow, and with our poor perimeter defense, I doubt he makes any difference.

Bargnani is a good man defender, poor help defender. Sounds just like him IMO. Differences being Kanter has post moves and Bargnani a better shooter. When Bosh was here i often thought Bargnani was the better man to man defender but its his help D thats awful. Pick Knight he brings D and can make Bargnani look passible

[RaptorReloaded]

Another thing I'd like to add is this is a guards league and I don't like this old school mentality that allot of teams follow where you have to draft big first or never trade big for small. I see Walker and Knight having bigger impacts down the road on their respective teams then BB, Kanter and Val will have on theirs.

I don't think BB will be able to guard bigger players one on one in the post. I also see him racking up a ton of fouls in the NBA as he is new to the game. That and I think people overrate his athletism. He's not on some Dwight tip above the rim style of game. He's undersized and skinny compared to most NBA centers. Ben Wallace who you guys compare him to was a beast.

Kanter hasn't played in a year and for a young guy to miss that type of comptetition then jump straight to the nba spells trouble. I like what I've seen from his highlights but they are from a year ago..

Val reminds me of Rasho but quicker, longer and no post game.. Not someone who I want to pick up after tanking a year for. I will support him if we draft him but wil be dissapointed. Knight on the other hand has been a top prospect for awhile and proved some of his doubters wrong this year. He still has his doubters but top prospects that maintain that level of play into the NCAA and succeed usualy end up being great players. Same with Walker. Theres no doubting his level of play this year. He lead his team to a chip.. These are guy I would personaly look to draft cause they are proven. We've seen them play and we know for the most part the NBA caters to guard play.

[S.W.A.N]

Another thing I'd like to add is this is a guards league and I don't like this old school mentality that allot of teams follow where you have to draft big first or never trade big for small. I see Walker and Knight having bigger impacts down the road on their respective teams then BB, Kanter and Val will have on theirs.

I don't think BB will be able to guard bigger players one on one in the post. I also see him racking up a ton of fouls in the NBA as he is new to the game. That and I think people overrate his athletism. He's not on some Dwight tip above the rim style of game. He's undersized and skinny compared to most NBA centers. Ben Wallace who you guys compare him to was a beast.

Kanter hasn't played in a year and for a young guy to miss that type of comptetition then jump straight to the nba spells trouble. I like what I've seen from his highlights but they are from a year ago..

Val reminds me of Rasho but quicker, longer and no post game.. Not someone who I want to pick up after tanking a year for. I will support him if we draft him but wil be dissapointed. Knight on the other hand has been a top prospect for awhile and proved some of his doubters wrong this year. He still has his doubters but top prospects that maintain that level of play into the NCAA and succeed usualy end up being great players. Same with Walker. Theres no doubting his level of play this year. He lead his team to a chip.. These are guy I would personaly look to draft cause they are proven. We've seen them play and we know for the most part the NBA caters to guard play.

Guards league my butt... Sure the pendlum has swung some towards gaurd oriented offences but ask Boston if they miss Perkins. L.A. how they would do with out Bynum or Pau. Memphis about life without Z-bo. Portland without Aldridge and the list goes on.

I like knight and walker and think that both have star potential, but when push comes to shove it is still harder to find a good big man than a good wing. I would rather take a shot that on one of Kanter Val BB being a star big man...

of course that all goes out the window if we fall in love with someone during workouts or get lucky enough to take the 1st or 2nd pick

[RaptorReloaded]

Thats my point it's harder to find a good big man then a good guard. That and IMO don't see any of these bigs being impact players let alone stars.. So why not draft a guard and look for a big through trade?
As for your first point I do agree with you. You need a dominant force down low unfortunately I don't see us getting that force in this years crop of big men.

[CanadaB-Ball]

Thats my point it's harder to find a good big man then a good guard. That and IMO don't see any of these bigs being impact players let alone stars.. So why not draft a guard and look for a big through trade?
As for your first point I do agree with you. You need a dominant force down low unfortunately I don't see us getting that force in this years crop of big men.

That's the problem.

If centers are hard to find, which they are, then why would any team trade one?

[S.W.A.N]

Thats my point it's harder to find a good big man then a good guard. That and IMO don't see any of these bigs being impact players let alone stars.. So why not draft a guard and look for a big through trade?
As for your first point I do agree with you. You need a dominant force down low unfortunately I don't see us getting that force in this years crop of big men.

Thats cool, just means we disagreeing on the talent level of this crop of big men... that will happen

Personally I think that while this years crop has a higher risk factor (so many more unknowns to factor in) but also has a very high ceiling. Kanter could be a Z-bo type big man. BB could be a Ben Wallace (yes I do believe he can be that much of a factor defensively, and Val has a tonne of potential as well but looks like he would be the most well rounded of the three.

[ansoncarter]

Guards league my butt... Sure the pendlum has swung some towards gaurd oriented offences but ask Boston if they miss Perkins. L.A. how they would do with out Bynum or Pau. Memphis about life without Z-bo. Portland without Aldridge and the list goes on.

ask L.A. how they'd do without kobe

or portland without roy or boston without rondo and pierce

memphis' bigmen are key but they're in the minority. Your list isn't actually going to go on very long, if your looking for teams who's most important player/s are bigmen. Without giving it much thought I'm guessing you might be able to count the number of those teams on one hand. The best players on good teams are almost exclusively guards. Or wings who play like guards. Or bigs like dirk who play like guards.

minny, orlando, miluakee, memphis, the clippers...is that it? Probably one or two I forgot, maybe you could throw boston on if you want, but still, bigmen led teams are few and far between. And almost all of them suck

[Dr Positivity]

I would just avoid the whole Euros bigs mess and take Brandon Knight, Terrence Jones, Reggie Jackson, or Tristan Thompson in that order after Irving/Williams. All have NBA bodies and can ball, making them likely sure things to make it in the NBA while simaltaneously giving them all-star upside.

Terrence Jones with the 3rd?! He really started to disappear towards the end of the season and there's lots of questions about whether he can play the 3.

Reggie Jackson??!!!!!!!! With the 3rd??????????!!!!

Tristan Thompson is redundant when we have Ed and Amir.

Well I would take Knight 3, these guys would be 4th or 5th picks. I'm not saying these are slam dunk picks but this draft falls into a hole in the gap between the top 2 and the teens. Jones, Jackson, Thompson are all talented guys from an NBA body/athleticism standpoint and have shown enough in production and development to this point to give me optimism. That's generally what you want from a draft pick. Talent and projectable upside. As for Thompson he has a 7'2 wingspan and the body to hopefully guard C postups in the future. I think he has a chance to play there and if he doesn't, he can log minutes next year and be a nice asset

Again it's not a slam dunk but we're not in an enviable position if we're picking 3-5, it's just not a good year for prospects in that range. If we can't work out Kanter I'm not that comfortable picking him and Biyombo and Valanciunas are classic "ruh oh" big man picks. I don't think we should force ourselves into picking a big when there are just as talented guys at other positions.

[jd4]

If the Raptors get the #1 pick, they need to take Irving. D. Williams will be a terrific NBA player. However, I read a scout's take on him that basically stated that at 6' 8", he has the height of a SF but he doesn't have the speed to play the 3 at the NBA level. The scout felt that he would be much better suited as an undersized 4 and that he would excel at that spot. We, however, already had Ed Davis at the 4. Adding Irving would add so much to the Raptors. He won't be a star right off the bat. That might take a few years. He's not as athletic as Rose and Wall but there's just something about this kid that makes me want to draft him. He's smart, a leader, and just looks like a savy player who will beat you with his smarts and make everyone else around him better. Team him with our core of Davis, DeRozan, etc. and we have something to build with. I don't think Williams will make those around him better.

As for Jose, if you get Irving, trade him. We need a SF who can shoot the 3 or a defensive centre. I think we could get one for Jose. He only has 2 years left on his deal. A lot of teams who need a veteran point guard would take him, especially if they run a 1/2 court offence and a need a distributor to play the point.

[CanadaB-Ball]

Guards league my butt... Sure the pendlum has swung some towards gaurd oriented offences but ask Boston if they miss Perkins. L.A. how they would do with out Bynum or Pau. Memphis about life without Z-bo. Portland without Aldridge and the list goes on.

ask L.A. how they'd do without kobe

or portland without roy or boston without rondo and pierce

memphis' bigmen are key but they're in the minority. Your list isn't actually going to go on very long, if your looking for teams who's most important player/s are bigmen. Without giving it much thought I'm guessing you might be able to count the number of those teams on one hand

Roy's done.

His knees are shot, and he was terrible in the playoffs.

[S.W.A.N]

Guards league my butt... Sure the pendlum has swung some towards gaurd oriented offences but ask Boston if they miss Perkins. L.A. how they would do with out Bynum or Pau. Memphis about life without Z-bo. Portland without Aldridge and the list goes on.

ask L.A. how they'd do without kobe

or portland without roy or boston without rondo and pierce

memphis' bigmen are key but they're in the minority. Your list isn't actually going to go on very long, if your looking for teams who's most important player/s are bigmen. Without giving it much thought I'm guessing you might be able to count the number of those teams on one hand. The best players on good teams are almost exclusively guards. Or wings who play like guards. Or bigs like dirk who play like guards.

minny, orlando, miluakee, memphis, the clippers...is that it? Probably one or two I forgot, maybe you could throw boston on if you want, but still, bigmen led teams are few and far between. And almost all of them suck

Boston, Miami, LA, Portland, Memphis, Oklahoma, Orlando,Dallas, Denver all have at least one all-start level big to go with their respective star players. All playoff teams....

I am not suggesting that a big man led team is the way to go. I believe in a balanced approach, but I do think that it is harder to find quality big men than wings or guards.

If the bpa is a wing or pg, then go bpa. But if there is no clear bpa then I want to go big. And personally I want a big that is going to be above average defensively, hence my infatuation with Bismack.

One of the biggest voids on this roster is at the 5 and if we can draft a 5 without reaching then I all for it, and between Kanter Val and Bismack I think one of these three will show themselves to be worthy and a big building block going forward.

[monopoly]

Boston, Miami, LA, Portland, Memphis, Oklahoma, Orlando,Dallas, Denver all have at least one all-start level big to go with their respective star players. All playoff teams....

I am not suggesting that a big man led team is the way to go. I believe in a balanced approach, but I do think that it is harder to find quality big men than wings or guards.

If the bpa is a wing or pg, then go bpa. But if there is no clear bpa then I want to go big. And personally I want a big that is going to be above average defensively, hence my infatuation with Bismack.

One of the biggest voids on this roster is at the 5 and if we can draft a 5 without reaching then I all for it, and between Kanter Val and Bismack I think one of these three will show themselves to be worthy and a big building block going forward.

+1 that's pretty much exactly my view.

If there's no clear BPA at 3 or later, then we should opt for a center, especially since Kanter is probably the closest to consensus BPA at #3. Biyombo might be a stretch, but I wouldn't mind rolling the dice. I have horrible visions of Val getting completely owned in the NBA... seems very weak. I mean, think about Val vs. Howard or Bynum. Even if his body develops a bit more, still seems like he's gonna get thrown around like a rag doll

[fredericklove]

If the Raptors get the #1 pick, they need to take Irving. D. Williams will be a terrific NBA player. However, I read a scout's take on him that basically stated that at 6' 8", he has the height of a SF but he doesn't have the speed to play the 3 at the NBA level. The scout felt that he would be much better suited as an undersized 4 and that he would excel at that spot. We, however, already had Ed Davis at the 4. Adding Irving would add so much to the Raptors. He won't be a star right off the bat. That might take a few years. He's not as athletic as Rose and Wall but there's just something about this kid that makes me want to draft him. He's smart, a leader, and just looks like a savy player who will beat you with his smarts and make everyone else around him better. Team him with our core of Davis, DeRozan, etc. and we have something to build with. I don't think Williams will make those around him better.

As for Jose, if you get Irving, trade him. We need a SF who can shoot the 3 or a defensive centre. I think we could get one for Jose. He only has 2 years left on his deal. A lot of teams who need a veteran point guard would take him, especially if they run a 1/2 court offence and a need a distributor to play the point.

99% of this board knows Irving is our guy and 1% of those are delusional people who think Irving is a bust. Irving/Davis/Derozan is a nice core indeed. A defensive-minded SF veteran is also a good pickup too as you can see how valuable tony allen and shane battier are for the grizzles in the playoff.

[RaptorReloaded]

I don't think any of these bigs have a high ceiling at all.. Again as you said its probably just our conflicting perspectives but having said that I don't think you can say these bigs are better then the guards. Knight and Walker are proven. Val, Kanter and Biyombo on the other hand are not. IMO Val is a stiff. Great pick and roll game but we have Amir. Biyombo is highly overrated. His best case scenario is Ben Wallace and there is a slim to none chance he comes close to him. Ben was a beast. Strong as an ox, huge thick arms and great leaping abillity. Biyombo looks frail in comparison. He also lucked out and played on a team that he fit perfectly with after a few years of not knowing if he had a place in the league. Kanter is interesting but last summer he was barely in the top 5 for mocks and now that he hasn't played in a year people want to take him third? Whats the sense in that? He's living off past glories when he was 18..
If we were to adress our need for a big it should be through trade IMO. I'll support what ever the Raps do however and will be a BB or Kanter fan if we take one of them. Val I'd have to warm up to..

[Dr Positivity]

The other thing is, people are obsessed with getting a C defender, but who's the great shotblocker in Memphis? Who's the great shotblocker on the present Miami Heat? Perimeter help d is huge. And I would be very, very very very very confident in a Knight Derozan backcourt defensively. That's a tandem that's long, strong and extremely motivated. Having those guys back there would make defense easier for everyone else and rub off on the rest of the team.

Knight = 3rd most talented player in the draft, he's 18 and he approaches the game like Demar. If we get the PG Demar out of this draft we should be happy. I say draft Knight.