Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compared

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Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compared 

Post#1 » by Litany » Sun May 22, 2011 9:35 am

I was just looking at stats and found them interesting. They both played one year at Kentucky then declared.

John Wall:

Pts: 16.6
2P%: 50.9
3P%: 32.5
FT%: 75.4
Asts: 6.5
TO's: 4.0

Brandon Knight:

Pts: 17.3
2P%: 46.1
3P%: 37.7
FT%: 79.5
Asts: 4.2
TO's: 3.2

I just found it interesting. Can someone talk about Wall's strengths/weaknesses coming out of college?

What I see in these stats is Wall distributed more and had a better 2P%. But Knight had a better 3P%, had less turnovers, better FT% and scored more.

I think Knight is undersold by many. You can call me a Knight homer that is fine. I am trying to learn more about him. His numbers look good to me, he can close, he is only 19, he's a smart kid, he would like to play in Utah, and I think he is a starting caliber PG which we won't get next year (not many great PG's in next years draft) and I am not sold on Harris.

As I have said in another thread, if Williams falls, take him, no doubt. If Kanter is the BPA, we'll take him. I just have concerns about Kanter, but this thread is about Knight.

I have been loud about wanting Knight at #3, hes the BPA at #3 in my opinion. Hope we get him and one of Burks/Hamilton/DoMo at #12.

Some of my favorite videos of him:

Icy Veins. These videos show his game winners during the college tournament this year. I haven't found video of it but he also hit the game winning 3-point basket at the McDonald's All-American game to give the west a 107-104 victory.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS34ZPNTF8A[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV03p2bDov4[/youtube]

College highlights

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX0sxtOMiec[/youtube]

Jordan Brand Classic

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgdGqllphMg[/youtube]

Brandon Knight workout

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k3Ot55ezt0[/youtube]
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#2 » by kamazilla » Sun May 22, 2011 12:57 pm

Really? You couldn't find a way to post this in one of the 6 threads already on the front page discussing Knight directly?! Mods, this kid either need to post in the myriad of threads dedicated to his subject matter of have his posting license lifted. This is getting ridiculous.

Incidentally, if you think Knight in any way is comparable to Wall as a player you are out of your mind.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#3 » by Dark Faze » Sun May 22, 2011 1:00 pm

Wall is the better prospect by far due to potential and being a true point. Knight is an okay shooter but a weak distributor. There are a lot of guys like that in the NBA who are available in free agency.

You guys should consider trading up. Kanter is a PF and shouldn't be played at center. None of the point prospects are worth it in the top 3. Trade with the Wizards to get the 6th and 18th and go with depth in a draft where the 3rd pick could be worse than the 18th pick.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#4 » by carrottop12 » Sun May 22, 2011 1:36 pm

I have to say I don't understand the knight hate. People here have labeled him as being comparable to Devin Harris which us beyond me as knights game is far more developed on the perimeter than harris' is, or was coming out of college. Knight will be an elite shooter in the NBA in a few years.

Co paring these guys is difficult, wall played with 4 other first round picks including a dominant college big man in cousins. Knights best teammate was Terrence jones who pulled out of this draft which is regarded as very weak because he wasn't a consensus top 15 pick. Had knight had those options, I don't think the concearns are there about him being able to be a distributor.

I do disagree with d15 about one thing, and that is that knight is only 18, meaning at this point he's the same age as most kids were who are starting college this year. His numbers are superb for a kid his age, especially considering how far he took that team.

Also, let's say Brandon knight does turn into a Devin Harris quality pg. Is that a bad thing? Is gettng an all-star pg in this draft. Bad thing? And, if he is more of a 2, does having him playin next to Harris a terrible thing?

I don care who we draft honestly as long as the jazz take bpa, but those who think taking knight would be a disaster are sorely mistaken.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#5 » by Jazzfan12 » Sun May 22, 2011 1:42 pm

College stats are totally useless for judging players. Knight also has the exact same stats as Jerryd Bayless did. Knight is extremely raw, a bad athlete, and can't dribble, I think he's a fringe top ten pick in the draft.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#6 » by carrottop12 » Sun May 22, 2011 1:52 pm

Jazzfan12 wrote:College stats are totally useless for judging players.


I disagree. His shooting numbers give you a pretty good idea of what kind of player he can be scoring wise, and his assist show that he isn't a complete ball hog. One thing that can be deceiving is turn overs however, knight was the focus of every defense he faced this year, that won't be the case in the NBA. Plus his handles will continue to improve, his to numbers will go down.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#7 » by kamazilla » Sun May 22, 2011 1:55 pm

Bat wrote:I do disagree with d15 about one thing, and that is that knight is only 18, meaning at this point he's the same age as most kids were who are starting college this year. His numbers are superb for a kid his age, especially considering how far he took that team.


KNIGHT IS NINETEEN! GO EDIT YOUR HUNDREDS OF POSTS WHICH MISTAKENLY LIST HIS AGE!
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#8 » by Jazzfan12 » Sun May 22, 2011 2:00 pm

Bat wrote:
Jazzfan12 wrote:College stats are totally useless for judging players.


I disagree. His shooting numbers give you a pretty good idea of what kind of player he can be scoring wise, and his assist show that he isn't a complete ball hog. One thing that can be deceiving is turn overs however, knight was the focus of every defense he faced this year, that won't be the case in the NBA. Plus his handles will continue to improve, his to numbers will go down.



His turnover numbers aren't deceiving in the slightest, he can't dribble. I honestly don't get how you can like Knight and hate Valanciunas. They have pretty much the same strengths and weaknesses, except Valanciunas is already at a near NBA-level for a center by being able to score off pick-and-roll and rebound extremely well whereas Knight is nowhere close to being an NBA-level point guard because he can't dribble. I think Knight might actually need to put on more weight than Valanciunas does as well. If Knight learns how to dribble and puts on the weight, then he'll be the 15th best point guard in the league. If Valanciunas learns post moves and puts on the weight, then he'll be an all-pro center.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#9 » by carrottop12 » Sun May 22, 2011 2:20 pm

Jazzfan12 wrote:College stats are totally useless for judging players. Knight also has the exact same stats as Jerryd Bayless did. Knight is extremely raw, a bad athlete, and can't dribble, I think he's a fringe top ten pick in the draft.


bad athlete? Explain. He isn't Derrick rose, but he isn't anthony Carter for god sake. He's a more than capable athlete.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#10 » by Jazzfan12 » Sun May 22, 2011 2:23 pm

He has no quickness and can't jump and that's with no weight on him, he'll probably slow down once he gets to an NBA-level weight.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#11 » by carrottop12 » Sun May 22, 2011 4:09 pm

You are just lying now which is weird, what is the point. He's a fine leaper, he can easily dunk the ball, he's always been able to penetrate so even if he isn't super quick in the mold of Brandon Jennings, he can get wherever he wants, and he's plenty quick to play defense, his 6'6 wing span helps with that also.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#12 » by Litany » Sun May 22, 2011 6:44 pm

kamazilla wrote:
Bat wrote:I do disagree with d15 about one thing, and that is that knight is only 18, meaning at this point he's the same age as most kids were who are starting college this year. His numbers are superb for a kid his age, especially considering how far he took that team.


KNIGHT IS NINETEEN! GO EDIT YOUR HUNDREDS OF POSTS WHICH MISTAKENLY LIST HIS AGE!


Calm down jeez. There are several places that have Knight listed as being born December 2, 1992. including ESPN, WIKI. So it is a common mistake. DraftExpress has him as December 2, 1991 and Knight cleared it up at the combine that he is 19. That is still young.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/re ... don-knight

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Knight_(basketball)

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bra ... ight-5140/
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#13 » by Litany » Sun May 22, 2011 6:47 pm

Jazzfan12 wrote:
Bat wrote:
Jazzfan12 wrote:College stats are totally useless for judging players.


I disagree. His shooting numbers give you a pretty good idea of what kind of player he can be scoring wise, and his assist show that he isn't a complete ball hog. One thing that can be deceiving is turn overs however, knight was the focus of every defense he faced this year, that won't be the case in the NBA. Plus his handles will continue to improve, his to numbers will go down.



His turnover numbers aren't deceiving in the slightest, he can't dribble. I honestly don't get how you can like Knight and hate Valanciunas. They have pretty much the same strengths and weaknesses, except Valanciunas is already at a near NBA-level for a center by being able to score off pick-and-roll and rebound extremely well whereas Knight is nowhere close to being an NBA-level point guard because he can't dribble. I think Knight might actually need to put on more weight than Valanciunas does as well. If Knight learns how to dribble and puts on the weight, then he'll be the 15th best point guard in the league. If Valanciunas learns post moves and puts on the weight, then he'll be an all-pro center.


Explain why Wall's turnover numbers (4.0) which were higher than Knights (3.2) don't reflect Wall having turnover issues, but Knights do?

Also, thanks for the laugh about him not being able to jump and that he has no quickness. Those highlight videos show his leaping ability and dunks and also his good first step. Does Deron or CP3 dunk like Griffin (not saying Knight is Deron or CP3 so dont freak out, just talking about PG dunking. Not sure what you are looking for in a PG dunk, Derrick Rose on all of them?

This is a video of Knight and Irving dunking. To me Knight looks like he has more hops. Is Irving not an athlete...sigh.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFUp8VbCPKY[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbnpCV362wQ[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnOIfPKJpNk[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IEi0An3UOw[/youtube]

Care to provide some video evidence that he "cant jump"? Or are you just going to spew more nonsense?
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#14 » by DelaneyRudd » Sun May 22, 2011 8:15 pm

kamazilla wrote:Really? You couldn't find a way to post this in one of the 6 threads already on the front page discussing Knight directly?! Mods, this kid either need to post in the myriad of threads dedicated to his subject matter of have his posting license lifted. This is getting ridiculous.

Incidentally, if you think Knight in any way is comparable to Wall as a player you are out of your mind.

I'm looking to end some clutter. I think the topics at the top half of the page now are all sufficiently different. As long as the second page doesn't have a bunch of newer stuff we'll just lay off.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#15 » by eLo » Sun May 22, 2011 8:17 pm

JazzD15 wrote:I was just looking at stats and found them interesting. They both played one year at Kentucky then declared.

John Wall:

Pts: 16.6
2P%: 50.9
3P%: 32.5
FT%: 75.4
Asts: 6.5
TO's: 4.0

Brandon Knight:

Pts: 17.3
2P%: 46.1
3P%: 37.7
FT%: 79.5
Asts: 4.2
TO's: 3.2

I just found it interesting. Can someone talk about Wall's strengths/weaknesses coming out of college?


Wall coming of collage was great athlete and great distributor, none of this Knight is and thats why first can be next Rose and second bite better version of Harris
Bat wrote:I have to say I don't understand the knight hate. People here have labeled him as being comparable to Devin Harris which us beyond me as knights game is far more developed on the perimeter than harris' is, or was coming out of college. Knight will be an elite shooter in the NBA in a few years.
@Bat our last voice of reason :wink:
Bat wrote:Also, let's say Brandon knight does turn into a Devin Harris quality pg. Is that a bad thing? Is gettng an all-star pg in this draft. Bad thing? And, if he is more of a 2, does having him playin next to Harris a terrible thing?
no that is not terrible thing, but having two very similar players wont help Jazz much and that is whole problem
Jazzfan12 wrote:He has no quickness and can't jump and that's with no weight on him, he'll probably slow down once he gets to an NBA-level weight.
well thats not true, but comparing him in that matter to Wall clearly dont have any sens.

Personal i like Knight, much more than Williams, picking him definitely wont be bad thing, but even if he will be bpa taking him by the Jazz wont solve any of our big problems, at least not in a short period of time.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#16 » by 3960HOOD » Sun May 22, 2011 8:27 pm

Is Devin Harris our current point guard, but is he our point guard of the future? What we do with the #3 pick and drafting Knight probably depends on what KOC feels about Harris.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#17 » by superd » Sun May 22, 2011 8:35 pm

I think folks should be able to post any Jazz related thread they want.

As for Brandon Knight versus John Wall I went and looked at Wall's rebounding stats while at Kentucky. Funny how time skews things in memory because I truly thought he got a lot more rebounds. As it is he was just a little ahead of Knight.

The main difference in Wall being a #1 and Knight not that high is physical. Wall is taller and is very fast. Knight has good height for a point guard but is not as fast. I'm pretty sure Wall was stronger coming out as well.

I've read Knight is a good student, works hard, and he will likely be a good player in the league. The really hard workers get better year after year. Magic Johnson added much improved outside shooting, same for Jordan. Knight seems like he will improve every year for several years. Wall came out of college with more potential than Knight, but he has had injury problems holding him back. The fun is watching who has the better career.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#18 » by Litany » Sun May 22, 2011 11:42 pm

3960HOOD wrote:Is Devin Harris our current point guard, but is he our point guard of the future? What we do with the #3 pick and drafting Knight probably depends on what KOC feels about Harris.


I honestly think Harris is the last thing on the Jazz FO mind when considering the #3 pick. Harris can be a good starting PG, but I don't think it will have any impact on the decision.

O'Conner has said repeatedly he reminds himself of what happened to the Blazers who were stacked at the shooting guard spot causing them to pass on MJ and go with Bowie.

So Jazz won't pass on a PG at the #3 because of Harris. If they do pass on Knight or Walker at #3 it would be because Williams fell, or they felt that we couldn't pass on Kanter.
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#19 » by outerspacefella » Mon May 23, 2011 1:24 am

- Knight's game is nothing alike Wall's game; he's pretty much a Jrue Holiday type of guard
- I can see Harris in Jazz future playing kind of a Derek Fisher role
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Re: Brandon Knight Bandwagon Thread. John Wall Stats Compare 

Post#20 » by Neon Black » Mon May 23, 2011 8:09 am

I think D15 makes some very valid points. I don't get some of the hate he's receiving for his opinion. Knight is extremely young and that's a huge plus. He's no athletic freak or speed demon...neither is Irving. He's a more collected player, and I see his ceiling being Chauncey Billups. Go compare Chauncey's college stats and physical attributes, you'll be surprised at the similarities (Billups was the same age when he came out of college).

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