[2011 Draft Thread Pt 3] - NY To TradeUp? (Update Top Pg 22)

[iDunk]

Fredette is not getting past Phoenix /endcrazydiscussionhe'llendupaknick

[captain subtext]

So you're thinking they trade DJ Augustin?

--Mags

Don't know. I wouldn't think that DJ Augustin is untouchable. His quality doesn't exactly prevent you from thinking about bringing other guards in.

Not saying Jimmer would be a good choice for them at #9, just saying that I it wouldn't surprise me. (Quite frankly, nothing they'd do at that spot would really surprise me. They could take Vucevic or Honeycutt, and I'd say, yep, that's the Bobcats' Pick alright,...)

[magnumt]

So you're thinking they trade DJ Augustin?

--Mags

Don't know. I wouldn't think that DJ Augustin is untouchable. His quality doesn't exactly prevent you from thinking about bringing other guards in.

Not saying Jimmer would be a good choice for them at #9, just saying that I it wouldn't surprise me. (Quite frankly, nothing they'd do at that spot would really surprise me. They could take Vucevic or Honeycutt, and I'd say, yep, that's the Bobcats' Pick alright,...)

I see them taking a chance on a PF/C type rather than a Guard. Remember they Drafted Guard for the last few Years (Henderson and Augustin being the latest 2). The last F/C type they really Drafted was Sean May (and Okafur before that). Plus, they still have Vets like Jackson as well. So for now they're set at PG-SG-SF (unless of course Jordan wants to make a splash and shake things up on Draft Night leading up into an uncertain CBA-less Free Agency of 2011).

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the reach and take someone like Faried (or Trade down to get him), to fill the voids left by Chandler, Okafur, and Wallace.

--Mags

[cgf]

Any immediate concerns for the Knicks that don't start and end with defensive center/big/6'11"-7' center is out to lunch. We don't need a PG right now. If the 17th pick has any time of utility to it, trade it to get a defensive big to get Amare into the correct playing position and prolong his career.

not with Dantoni as HC...he will continue to play Amare at thr 5, because he feels that gives the knicks the best advantage. We need to draft/acquire a big and then get a new head coach

What Mike wants is not important to Donnie now. He tried it his way, now Donnie is going to get players he wants and Donnie likes TOUGH minded players.....TOUGH & SMART. He likes the physical game, keep in mind a while back Donnie said and I quote, he wants to get an ANIMAL to play alongside Amare....Faried is that type, I just dont think he will be there when NY picks. For me the two players I want NY to somehow acquire in the 1st round are Faried and Josh Shelby. We also have to remember we have Jerome Jordan probably coming over next season as well....That is like adding an additional pick for us, I am sure in this draft he'd have to be a late first round pick.

When exactly have we tried it Mike's way? Mike D'Antoni's system is based around smart players, who are tough hard working guys who can hit open shots and cause turnovers on D. When have we had 7 good players that fulfilled those requirements?

[magnumt]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/213790/Fredette_Intrigued_By_Knicks_Style_Of_Play

Fredette Intrigued By Knicks' Style Of Play
May 20, 2011 10:23 AM EDT


Jimmer Fredette, the BYU 6-foot-1 sharpshooting point guard, told The Post at yesterday's pre-draft camp here he has agreed to work out for the Knicks in Westchester on June 2.

"It's a team that's definitely intriguing especially with their style of play," Fredette said yesterday. "Being able to get up and down the court, that's what we did at BYU. That's how I feel comfortable playing. Obviously, being from New York and liking the Knicks growing up, we'll see."

Can Fredette fall to 17 or would the Knicks have to trade up a few notches? Because of Fredette's alleged defensive shortcomings and questions on whether he is a floor general, Fredette could slip despite his blistering 28.9 scoring average.

"My expectations are trying to be able to get into the right fit for me," Fredette said. "I don't necessary care how high I get picked. I just want to get picked in the right situation. That's the longevity of your career. If you get picked in the right spot, you have a great system you flourish in, the next contract is what you worry about. You just have to get in the right situation, show you can play well and go from there."

--Mags

Just a reminder that his Workout (and the Knicks 1st MAJOR workout with Prospects) is tomorrow (June 2nd, 2011).

Expect a flood of new News regarding it here.

--Mags

[Sprewell4Three]

He is going to be a poor man's Stephen Curry, we know about his defensive woes. But with STAT and Melo he will get a lot of open looks and he is probably the purests shooter in the draft. He can probably be the JJ Barea role and just be an immediate scorer off the bench.

He's bigger stronger than barea. And also a better shooter. If his role is to come off the bench and light it up, i'll take that.
With Amare and Melo we probably do need another legit scorer for cheap if we don't get paul, deron, howard

[Sprewell4Three]

He is going to be a poor man's Stephen Curry, we know about his defensive woes. But with STAT and Melo he will get a lot of open looks and he is probably the purests shooter in the draft. He can probably be the JJ Barea role and just be an immediate scorer off the bench.

Here's the problem with Jimmer. If he kills it in workouts and displays better than expected quickness, athletcism and the ability to run a team than some team above us will draft him to be their PG of the future. but if he cannot play point then why would you want to waste a decent pick on a back-up 2-guard?

People were saying the same sh*t leading up to the Drafts in past Years and in their Rookie Seasons for Westbrook and Curry.

Both of those guys proved you haters wrong.

Just cause a guy isn't dropping nearly 10 APG in College and is scoring nearly 30 PPG, doesn't mean he can't be a good PG.

Like I said above, one of the reasons I want Jimmy so bad is I seem him as a PERFECT fit to develop in this System. He sooooooooooooo reminds me of Nash-lite.

--Mags

Yeah in this new NBA , combo guards like curry and westbrook are excelling. They're not ideal pg's but they seem to have no problem producing right now...

[StephNYKurry]

It's an insult to Stephen Curry to compare him to Russell Westbrook

Stephen Curry has a high basketball IQ

Russell Westbrook has no basketball IQ

I told anyone that would listen that Stephen Curry would be an EXTREMELY productive player in the league.

Low End: Jason Terry

Most Likely: Mike Bibby (Western Conference Finals Mike Bibby)

High End: Steve Nash

He's proving me to be right and I thought we should have done the deal to trade Wilson Chandler and #8 for Mike Miller and #5 to be sure we landed him. Dem's be's the breaks.

To the point though, Jimmer is just like Stephen but with a little less passing ability, but a greater ability to finish at the rim due to his strength. They both have crazy handle, change of pace, and lethal jumpers. Jimmer is going to be a stud.

[Sprewell4Three]

It's an insult to Stephen Curry to compare him to Russell Westbrook

Stephen Curry has a high basketball IQ

Russell Westbrook has no basketball IQ

Westbrook was an all-star this season. And was the starting pg for a team that made it to the WCF.
It was basically him and Durant that carried that team all-season. Oh and cant forget about Harden..

Westbrook has below average IQ but he makes up for it by being more athletic than his opposition..

[StephNYKurry]

It's an insult to Stephen Curry to compare him to Russell Westbrook

Stephen Curry has a high basketball IQ

Russell Westbrook has no basketball IQ

Westbrook was an all-star this season. And was the starting pg for a team that made it to the WCF.
It was basically him and Durant that carried that team all-season. Oh and cant forget about Harden..

Westbrook has below average IQ but he makes up for it by being more athletic than his opposition..

I personally think the series with the Mavs AT LEAST goes a couple more games if Stephen Curry was the point guard instead of Russell Westbrook

[moocow007]

If I were in charge of the Thunder my first order of business would be to try to land CP3 in exchange for Westbrook (if I were able to get CP3 to agree to an extension).

[Pharmcat]

If I were in charge of the Thunder my first order of business would be to try to land CP3 in exchange for Westbrook (if I were able to get CP3 to agree to an extension).

and hire rick adelamn

[StephNYKurry]

If I were in charge of the Thunder my first order of business would be to try to land CP3 in exchange for Westbrook (if I were able to get CP3 to agree to an extension).

and hire rick adelamn

That team would be FRIGHTENING

[VirginiaKnickFan]

I don't see Fredette falling to #17.

[magnumt]

If I were in charge of the Thunder my first order of business would be to try to land CP3 in exchange for Westbrook (if I were able to get CP3 to agree to an extension).

and hire rick adelamn

To me, Adelman would NOT be a good fit for that Team. Over time he'd likely lose them. You see with Brooks, he was a relatively unknown Coach, so he had a chance to grow with them.

Also, I think Paul would be a bad fit for that Team. He's not the same Chris Paul he was a couple of Years ago, and he may not be able to keep up with them. He's also not as rugged/built as Westbrook, so there might be some issues there as well.

If they WERE to trade Westbrook for a PG, I'd suggest either Stephen Curry (who would help spread the floor for Durant BIG TIME), or Tony Parker (in say a 3-Team Trade where the Thunder get more back).

--Mags

[Pharmcat]

If I were in charge of the Thunder my first order of business would be to try to land CP3 in exchange for Westbrook (if I were able to get CP3 to agree to an extension).

and hire rick adelamn

To me, Adelman would NOT be a good fit for that Team. Over time he'd likely lose them. You see with Brooks, he was a relatively unknown Coach, so he had a chance to grow with them.

Also, I think Paul would be a bad fit for that Team. He's not the same Chris Paul he was a couple of Years ago, and he may not be able to keep up with them. He's also not as rugged/built as Westbrook, so there might be some issues there as well.

If they WERE to trade Westbrook for a PG, I'd suggest either Stephen Curry (who would help spread the floor for Durant BIG TIME), or Tony Parker (in say a 3-Team Trade where the Thunder get more back).

--Mags

i thought paul looked much better in the playoffs

wahtever D problems paul would have, curry and parker arent much stronger either

for them to spread the floor, they need to start harden at SG and find a big men with some O (mayb ibaka continues to develop that Jumpshot)

that team is young and needs a floor general, there is no way a team that has durant should have a robin that shoots more than him and ignores him while on the court together

[magnumt]

To me, Adelman would NOT be a good fit for that Team. Over time he'd likely lose them. You see with Brooks, he was a relatively unknown Coach, so he had a chance to grow with them.

Also, I think Paul would be a bad fit for that Team. He's not the same Chris Paul he was a couple of Years ago, and he may not be able to keep up with them. He's also not as rugged/built as Westbrook, so there might be some issues there as well.

If they WERE to trade Westbrook for a PG, I'd suggest either Stephen Curry (who would help spread the floor for Durant BIG TIME), or Tony Parker (in say a 3-Team Trade where the Thunder get more back).

--Mags

i thought paul looked much better in the playoffs

wahtever D problems paul would have, curry and parker arent much stronger either

for them to spread the floor, they need to start harden at SG and find a big men with some O (mayb ibaka continues to develop that Jumpshot)

that team is young and needs a floor general, there is no way a team that has durant should have a robin that shoots more than him and ignores him while on the court together

Their speed makes up for it. They can still get into the paint at will, and turn on a dime. Paul used to be able to do that, and still can. Just now at his HoF and consistent ways that he used to. Remember, before the injuries....there was NOT a PG in the NBA that could stay infront of Paul, and he would win his Passing-Lane Gambles more than 50% of the time for Steals.

Harden is not a full-time starter yet, and plus it doesn't hurt to have more Floor Spreaders at all. I think Parker or Curry would be better options for them than Paul (the current Paul)...and I don't think Adelman is a good fit longterm for them (as I alluded to in my prior post quoted above).

--Mags

[moocow007]

If I were in charge of the Thunder my first order of business would be to try to land CP3 in exchange for Westbrook (if I were able to get CP3 to agree to an extension).

and hire rick adelamn

To me, Adelman would NOT be a good fit for that Team. Over time he'd likely lose them. You see with Brooks, he was a relatively unknown Coach, so he had a chance to grow with them.

Also, I think Paul would be a bad fit for that Team. He's not the same Chris Paul he was a couple of Years ago, and he may not be able to keep up with them. He's also not as rugged/built as Westbrook, so there might be some issues there as well.

If they WERE to trade Westbrook for a PG, I'd suggest either Stephen Curry (who would help spread the floor for Durant BIG TIME), or Tony Parker (in say a 3-Team Trade where the Thunder get more back).

--Mags

I'm not sure I agree. I don't think the Thunder are necessarily a fast paced team because they need to be nor that Durant can't function in a slower paced offense (and to be honest it's not hard to argue that the Hornets offense is slow because they just don't have enough guns to do anything but). The Thunder is fast if for no other reason than because they don't have a choice with Westbrook "running" things. Westbrook is a one speed point (kinda like Iverson was), that's his strength but that's also his weakness (he goes full tilt regardless of whether his teammates are ready or set or should be getting the ball). The deal with Durant is that he's not an alpha guy IMHO (at least not yet). He had the opportunity to step up in the playoffs, take charge of this (his) team and he didn't. Instead he, pardon the pun, let Robin run the Bat Cave. In a lot of ways I think Durant is like Carmelo Anthony...a terrific all around talent who may not be the type of guy that will pull a Kobe or a Lebron and really alpha prime a team. CP3 is one of those alpha guys and pairing him with Durant would make a whole lot of sense and take Durant's potency up another level. Stephen Curry really hasn't shown he's really an ideal PG that can run an top offense (in the Warriors offense Monta Ellis dominates the ball as much as Curry does). Tony Parker is closer to being broken down than Chris Paul is nor is Parker really an ideal top notch point (the Spurs ran their championship offense through Tim Duncan and Parker's role was more of a shooter/scorer who can bring the ball up and look for his own shot). Absolutely Chris Paul would be an upgrade over Westbrook for the Thunder and he'd make the Thunder more potent a team because he's he's one of the rare scoring points that can also get everyone else involved, run an offense and make his team much better. Honestly, aside from Lebron James (in Cleveland), no other player has done more with less than Chris Paul in recent years. Pair him with another superstar player (or two if he ends up in NY) and I think you'll see his team really explode.

Adelman? I don't think it would matter much since Paul knows what he's doing on offense and what you really need to have as a headcoach is someone that can get everyone else focuse, playing as a team and play agressively. Scott Brooks seems to be fie with that. Lionel Hollins is another guy that is able to get players to buy into a gameplan. Adelman? Not so sure about that.

[magnumt]

To me, Adelman would NOT be a good fit for that Team. Over time he'd likely lose them. You see with Brooks, he was a relatively unknown Coach, so he had a chance to grow with them.

Also, I think Paul would be a bad fit for that Team. He's not the same Chris Paul he was a couple of Years ago, and he may not be able to keep up with them. He's also not as rugged/built as Westbrook, so there might be some issues there as well.

If they WERE to trade Westbrook for a PG, I'd suggest either Stephen Curry (who would help spread the floor for Durant BIG TIME), or Tony Parker (in say a 3-Team Trade where the Thunder get more back).

--Mags

I'm not sure I agree. I don't think the Thunder are necessarily a fast paced team because they need to be nor that Durant can't function in a slower paced offense (and to be honest it's not hard to argue that the Hornets offense is slow because they just don't have enough guns to do anything but). The Thunder is fast if for no other reason than because they don't have a choice with Westbrook "running" things. Westbrook is a one speed point (kinda like Iverson was), that's his strength but that's also his weakness (he goes full tilt regardless of whether his teammates are ready or set or should be getting the ball). The deal with Durant is that he's not an alpha guy IMHO (at least not yet). He had the opportunity to step up in the playoffs, take charge of this (his) team and he didn't. Instead he, pardon the pun, let Robin run the Bat Cave. In a lot of ways I think Durant is like Carmelo Anthony...a terrific all around talent who may not be the type of guy that will pull a Kobe or a Lebron and really alpha prime a team. CP3 is one of those alpha guys and pairing him with Durant would make a whole lot of sense and take Durant's potency up another level. Stephen Curry really hasn't shown he's really an ideal PG that can run an top offense (in the Warriors offense Monta Ellis dominates the ball as much as Curry does). Tony Parker is closer to being broken down than Chris Paul is nor is Parker really an ideal top notch point (the Spurs ran their championship offense through Tim Duncan and Parker's role was more of a shooter/scorer who can bring the ball up and look for his own shot). Absolutely Chris Paul would be an upgrade over Westbrook for the Thunder and he'd make the Thunder more potent a team because he's he's one of the rare scoring points that can also get everyone else involved, run an offense and make his team much better. Honestly, aside from Lebron James (in Cleveland), no other player has done more with less than Chris Paul in recent years. Pair him with another superstar player (or two if he ends up in NY) and I think you'll see his team really explode.

Adelman? I don't think it would matter much since Paul knows what he's doing on offense and what you really need to have as a headcoach is someone that can get everyone else focuse, playing as a team and play agressively. Scott Brooks seems to be fie with that. Lionel Hollins is another guy that is able to get players to buy into a gameplan. Adelman? Not so sure about that.

^So we're in agreement about Adelman not being a good fit there?

Parker is just as good as Westbrook at getting into the Paint and kicking out. Maybe even better. Parker also didn't have as bad as surgeries (repeatedly mind you) as Paul did. And from what I saw (yes, I know Paul looked good in Rd 1 too), Parker would be a better fit IMO alongside Durant than Paul. But both Westbrook and Curry would be better fits than either Parker or Paul for Durant IMO.

--Mags

[magnumt]

Just a reminder that the following guys are going at it today in a BIG Workout for the Knicks:

Jimmer Fredette June 2 <--
Marshon Brooks June 2 <--
Klay Thompson June 2 <--
Darius Morris June 2 <--
Gary McGhee June 2
Denzel Bowles June 2

and tomorrow:

Tobias Harris June 3
JaJuan Johnson June 3
Matthew Bryan-Amaning June 3

Note: Josh Selby has been flown into NY as a late addition to the June 3rd Workouts!!!

Knicks doin' wok!!!!!!!!!

===========================================================

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06/02/jimmer-time-byus-fredette-to-work-out-for-knicks/

Jimmer Time: BYU’s Fredette To Work Out For Knicks
June 2, 2011 10:15 AM


NEW YORK (WFAN/AP) — Former BYU star Jimmer Fredette said Wednesday that people have been telling him his whole life he’s not a good defensive player. But the Glens Falls, N.Y. native thinks he’s on his way to proving them wrong as he works out for a series of NBA teams — including the Knicks.

The 6-foot-2 point guard, who averaged 28.9 points per game last season and was named The Associated Press player of the year, had his first workout on Tuesday with the Indiana Pacers. He plans another with the Knicks on Thursday and future workouts at Sacramento, Utah and Phoenix.

“Obviously, being from New York and liking the Knicks growing up, we’ll see,” Fredette said, according to the New York Post.

Much has been written about the Knicks’ defense — or lack of it — under coach Mike D’Antoni. The upstate New Yorker thinks his ‘D’ won’t be an issue.

“I think they know I can play offense at the level of an NBA-caliber player. The biggest thing they are concerned about is the defensive end and being able to defend NBA point guards,” he said. “My goal is to show that I can. I think I did a good job of that (Tuesday). I think I’ll do a good job of that the rest of the time.”

The Knicks have the 17th overall pick in this month’s draft.

Fredette was speaking to reporters on a teleconference call to promote the American Century Celebrity Golf Championship, which he is scheduled to play in July 15-17 at Lake Tahoe. He said the knock on his defensive play is nothing new.

“I think everyone has a criticism of someone for something. That is just my criticism I have gotten for my entire life, basically. I am used to it. I realize I have to continue to work on defense. I think a lot of people have to work on defense. It’s a tough thing — not being able to hand check and everything,” he said.

Fredette, who led BYU to the NCAA tournament round of 16 for the first time in 30 years this season, said he thinks there is a good chance the NBA will lock out its players next season but that is not affecting his preparation for this month’s draft.

“They think there is going to be a lockout. That is what a lot of people are saying and they really believe that is going to happen this year,” Fredette said. “No one knows how long it is going to take to resolve it. …. As of right now, I’m not doing anything different because the draft process is the same so far.”

Should the Knicks pick Fredette if he’s available at No. 17? Sound off in the comments below…

--Mags[/size]