2010-11 POY Voting Thread - Congrats Dirk Nowitzki!

[Asianiac_24]

human beings who understand the game and write about it combined with our own eyes can explain wins much better than PER, Win Shares or any other completely made up meaningless statistic.

Can you do the same thing in Baseball without slugging %, HR, RBI's, ERA's, etc?

This isn't track and field where the guy who is the fastest is automatically the best.

Except baseball is pretty much one on one: its the batter against the pitcher. Who your teammates are won't really affect the stats, except maybe RBIs and to an extent ERA (if your second baseman can't catch a ground ball or something, but I don't think any second baseman playing in the MLB would suck so much that it would greatly affect its pitcher's ERA). In basketball stats would look very different playing on an all-star team vs playing on a NBDL level team

[DocHoops]

Edited by Mod

[mysticbb]

And what eliminates bias from a statistic created by a person subject to those same biases?

We can eliminate that to a certain degree by checking how good a stat is in terms of predicting (or explaining).

How about the officials? Does their cognitive bias not impact the way they call the game, thus impacting the raw numbers, thus impacting the way the game game is coached, thus further impacting the raw numbers and finally making any advanced stat too inherently flawed to put any stock in?

There are studies to determine such bias, and usually we get around 3.2 to 3.6 points per game as HCA out of those studies, that includes the ref bias. And it couldn't be shown that certain referees have indeed a significant bias towards any team or player. But you very well might be believe something different.

How do you eliminate your own bias?

[DocHoops]

How about the officials? Does their cognitive bias not impact the way they call the game, thus impacting the raw numbers, thus impacting the way the game game is coached, thus further impacting the raw numbers and finally making any advanced stat too inherently flawed to put any stock in?

There are studies to determine such bias, and usually we get around 3.2 to 3.6 points per game as HCA out of those studies, that includes the ref bias. And it couldn't be shown that certain referees have indeed a significant bias towards any team or player. But you very well might be believe something different.

How do the people conducting the studies account for their own biases? If these numbers have merit and the NBA is aware of them, why is nothing done about it?

Most of all though, I just don't see how using one subjective form of analysis to support an other subjective piece of analysis and on and on and on is ever going to provide any clearer a picture than the one our eyes and the eyes of others who watched the games can create.

How do you eliminate your own bias?

Can't, bu I can be aware of it and understand alternative perspectives. It's a lot easier to account for my own personal bias or another individuals than it is a group of individuals I don't even know.

[semi-sentient]

Where are the voting results?

I'd like to go ahead and update the site with the latest statistics if possible. I've been super swamped lately and might not be back for a while, so if someone can just PM me the voting results I'll get the site updated.

[Doctor MJ]

Where are the voting results?

I'd like to go ahead and update the site with the latest statistics if possible. I've been super swamped lately and might not be back for a while, so if someone can just PM me the voting results I'll get the site updated.

Here:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1119899&start=90#p28379085

Thanks sentient!

[semi-sentient]

Thanks... results are up.

http://www.dolem.com/poy

[mysticbb]

Thanks... results are up.

http://www.dolem.com/poy

Check out 1982/83, you have Moses Malone twice in this list.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1028775&start=60#p24238389

'82-83 Results

Code: Select all

Player               1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts   POY Shares
1. Moses Malone       21   0   0   0   0 210   1.000
2. Larry Bird          0   9   6   5   1 109   0.519
3. Magic Johnson       0   6  10   4   1 105   0.500
4. Sidney Moncrief     0   6   2   3   5  66   0.314
5. Julius Erving       0   0   2   4   7  29   0.138
6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 0   0   1   5   6  26   0.124
7. Buck Williams       0   0   0   0   1   1   0.005


That is the result as Doc posted it in the thread for the 82/83 voting.


Also, 1980/81 is missing:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1035495&start=60#p24399682

'80-81 Results

Code: Select all

Player               1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts   POY Shares
1. Larry Bird         11   4   3   0   0 153   0.850
2. Moses Malone        1   7   7   3   0 103   0.572
3. Julius Erving       2   4   5   7   0  94   0.522
   Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 4   3   2   7   2  94   0.522
5. Marques Johnson     0   0   1   0   9  14   0.078
6. George Gervin       0   0   0   1   6   9   0.050
7. Cedric Maxwell      0   0   0   0   1   1   0.006


Ok, looks like the mess is caused by actually combining 81-82 and 82-83, because 80-81 is listed as 81-82, or something like that:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1032545&start=30#p24327255

'81-82 Results

Code: Select all

Player               1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Pts   POY Shares
1. Moses Malone       16   0   1   0   0 165   0.971
2. Julius Erving       1   8   6   2   0 102   0.600
3. Magic Johnson       0   9   6   1   1  97   0.571
4. Larry Bird          0   0   4   7   4  45   0.265
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 0   0   0   4   8  20   0.118
6. George Gervin       0   0   0   3   3  12   0.071
7. Sidney Moncrief     0   0   0   0   1   1   0.006


Hope, you can fix that somehow.

[semi-sentient]

Ahhh, thanks for catching that. I had to go in and reorganize the spreadsheet and I screwed up the associations with seasons in those years. It's fixed now.

I may end up moving this over to a MySQL database if I have some.

http://rpoy.dolem.com

[JordansBulls]

I just punched a baby.

Why would you ever do that?