Welcome to the Knicks Iman Shumpert

alphad0gz · Post #901 » by **alphad0gz** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:40 am

Standing reach has nothing to do with the height of the top of your head. It has everything to do with your shoulder height. That's why Brand is so beastly for his "height".....he has no neck, but his shoulders are at the height of a 7'er. Standing reach is the real measure of a guys workable height.

MaseInYourFace · Post #902 » by **MaseInYourFace** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:05 pm

I already have a knickname for him, "Orange Schumpert" as in Orange Sherbet. Hes gonna be a real treat...

xsaberx · Post #903 » by **xsaberx** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:39 pm

TrueWarrior wrote:
xsaberx wrote:It could be true that he didn't really reach like he was supposed to while standing. Maybe he would be more in the 8'6" range with a full reach - this would bring his vertical down to 33.5 stand and 39 max, which is still great.

In any case, his maximum vertical reach of 11'9.5" is completely insane

In fact there are only 8 guards in the entire draft measurement history that have a higher max vertical reach - none of them are point guards, half of them don't/barely play, and the others are: ronnie brewer, josh howard, and jason richardson (who are taller). And there are only 7 players that match his max vertical reach such as brandon roy and joe johnson (who again, are taller).

Hes definitely very athletic, never disagreed with that, its just his and Brooks' verticals seemed off. Mardy Collins measured exactly the same as Iman (6'4.25'' height w/o shoes, 6'10'' wingspan) but managed a standing reach of 8'7''. Ha. How is his standing reach 3.5 inches bigger? To my surprise Mardy had a vertical of 38 inches too. Without knowing that I would have guessed around 31-32 tops. Just goes to show you have to take these measurements lightly. I feel like some of these guys really practice these drills/tests and know how to manipulate them. Lets be real... Jimmer's agility.. .

Even if Iman's true vert is 38ish inches, and Brooks is 34ish inches, thats still very good. Not a big deal. I just dont see any other player who measured as weirdly.

Other guys:

Malcolm Lee is the same height as Iman with the same wingspan, but has a 2 inch standing reach advantage. Darius Morris is an inch shorter than Iman with 2 inch shorter arms, yet has a 3 inch standing reach advantage. Kryie Irving is 2.5 inches shorter than Iman, with only a 6'4 wingspan, but has the same standing reach. Brandon Knight is 3 inches shorter than Iman with 3 inch shorter arms, but yet only has a 1 inch shorter reach.

Is Iman a giraffe?

He doesn't seem to have a really long neck and think it is more likely that they (Iman and Marshon) didn't really give it a full stretch with their reach.

I also think Iman is much stronger off of two feet than one

TKF · Post #904 » by **TKF** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:07 pm

I like the larry Hughes comparisons.. Actually as an older vet, I liked Hughes a lot, too bad he didn't work here, because we could have used hughes when billups went down in the playoffs... Hughes is actually a good player, just wasn't sure if he was ready to accept lesser roles and embrace it... He could have been a ron harper type player...(older ron harper)

SonOfMars · Post #905 » by **SonOfMars** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:31 pm

not sure if this was seen/posted already, but i came across it via twitter, not the great PS job, but its cool:

Kampuchea · Post #906 » by **Kampuchea** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:36 pm

WOW, Shump is already shutting down Wade!

STEAL OF THE DRAFT. When was that game played?

Marty McFly · Post #907 » by **Marty McFly** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:12 pm

alphad0gz wrote:Standing reach has nothing to do with the height of the top of your head. It has everything to do with your shoulder height. That's why Brand is so beastly for his "height".....he has no neck, but his shoulders are at the height of a 7'er. Standing reach is the real measure of a guys workable height.

yeah i was thinking that maybe it's because of how muscled iman is at the shoulders.

Marty McFly · Post #908 » by **Marty McFly** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:12 pm

MozTheMan wrote:WOW, Shump is already shutting down Wade!

STEAL OF THE DRAFT. When was that game played?

right after mike got his extension.

2010 · Post #909 » by **2010** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:50 pm

Iman Shumpert (player comparisons)

Larry Hughes never had the kind of body Shumpert already has...and he'll only get even more muscled as he continues to mature. I really don't see any direct absolute comparison for this kid. He'll end up being a blend of multiple players.

A body similar to Dwyane Wade, the defensive versatility of Tony Allen, the form on his jumpshot, composure and paced play of Chauncey Billups, and transition scoring and explosive two-foot leaping ability of Russell Westbrook.

I see bits and pieces of all these guys in Shumperts game but he's not a xerox of any sole player. The key to maximizing his potential will be developing him as a point guard (much to the chagrin of the majority of you posters). What matters most is that team brass and the coaching staff views him as a pick and roll PG so I'll take their words over you mooks any day. If he shows an ability to handle the rock and consistently knock down open shots then he'll be a successful PG in the offense that we run. He already has three times over the vision and passng ability that Toney Douglas has. Maybe even more vision than Billups as well. Develop him as a PG and we'll have a very physically imposing advantage at the "1" position every night.

2010 · Post #910 » by **2010** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:31 pm

Dwyane Wade @Marquette
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDeb7dzmwM[/youtube]

Russell Westbrook @UCLA
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haq_JS0YFXk[/youtube]

Chauncey Billups @early career highlights
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDruuqFuPwQ[/youtube]
(pay close attention to the form on his jumpshot and the pace he plays at in the halfcourt)

*****************************************************************************************************************************
Now watch Iman Shumpert...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZHOpu328Fs[/youtube]

...I'm telling you dudes; the body of Wade, the transition game and two-foot leaping explosiveness of Westbrook, yet the form on the jumper composure and paced play in the halfcourt of Billups.

SonOfMars · Post #911 » by **SonOfMars** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:20 pm

I think we reaching terribly on these comparisons..

Their is a reason Chauncey, Wade, and Westbrook were all taken top 5 in their respective drafts, and turned out to be the all-stars that they are, and theirs a reason many considered Shumpert as a second rounder...I want this kid to be as good as possible, hell, I want him to be the next Michael Jordan, but he probably wont be...Lets settle for/accept the Tony Allen/Larry Hughes that he really is..which at 17, is not bad value at all, but please for HIS sake, lets try not to put this guy in the conversation of Billups, Wade, and Westbrook, atleast not yet.

We did the same thing with other draft picks, Jordan Hill was suppose to be our Amare' Stoudemire w/ better rebounding, Toney Douglas was suppose to be our Ben Gordon, Gallo was suppose to be our Dirk Nowitzki, Wilson Chandler was suppose to be our Gerald Wallace, we do this every year guys...

Kampuchea · Post #912 » by **Kampuchea** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:31 pm

Iman Shumpert has the following:
vision of Superman, the bad-ass look of Batman, the flexibility of Spiderman, Claws of Wolverine, Strength of the Hulk and breasts and ass of Wonderwoman.

TrueWarrior · Post #913 » by **TrueWarrior** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:38 pm

The funny thing is 2010 has a legit argument. I do see all of those things in Iman. The problem is they havent translated to his game on the court at all. The player 2010 described would be a candidate for GOAT. So Im just going to settle for hoping Iman can shoot over 40% his rookie year, over 30% from three, grab a few rebounds, steals, and dish a few dimes. Lets keep expectations low, before we eat this kid up and spit him out because hes not the next Wade/Westbrook/Billups/TAllen hybrid.

Marty McFly · Post #914 » by **Marty McFly** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:56 pm

Mac1Money wrote:I think we reaching terribly on these comparisons..

Their is a reason Chauncey, Wade, and Westbrook were all taken top 5 in their respective drafts, and turned out to be the all-stars that they are, and theirs a reason many considered Shumpert as a second rounder...I want this kid to be as good as possible, hell, I want him to be the next Michael Jordan, but he probably wont be...Lets settle for/accept the Tony Allen/Larry Hughes that he really is..which at 17, is not bad value at all, but please for HIS sake, lets try not to put this guy in the conversation of Billups, Wade, and Westbrook, atleast not yet.

We did the same thing with other draft picks, Jordan Hill was suppose to be our Amare' Stoudemire w/ better rebounding, Toney Douglas was suppose to be our Ben Gordon, Gallo was suppose to be our Dirk Nowitzki, Wilson Chandler was suppose to be our Gerald Wallace, we do this every year guys...

drafts are a crapshoot and always have been. even now they're hardly an exact science.

who but bobby knight would have though that mike would end up being arguably the goat? he was taken 3rd. kobe was taken 13th.

Iman has plenty of work to do to even dream about being wade, but it isn't ludicrous to think that with hard work, he can be a great player. there are alot of determining factors at play into what a player can become.

look at the player that rondo became with the big three? apart from the physical package, who knows what sort of affect would playing with melo and stat do for him?

2010 · Post #915 » by **2010** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:13 pm

What you guys are forgetting is that nobody expected Westbrook or Wade to be as good as they were right out of the gate. Both of those two guys had questionmarks of what they'd become at the NBA level. Granted they were drafted a lot higher than Shumpert but remember some argued they were reaches at the time as a result of their college teams respective success.

As for Billups, this guy struggled well into the first five seasons of his NBA career until Larry Brown helped him figure things out and carve a niche for himself as a ball-control, big PG who was low assist yet low turnover. Billups first five teams couldn't figure out if he was a PG or a SG and he was stuck with the dreaded backup "combo guard" with a low ceiling despite the high draft slot on his resume. He was univerally relegated to a bust until Joe Dumars signed him for pennies on the dollar and Larry Brown ultimately renovated his image as the prototypical Brown PG who runs a rigid offense, doesn't take risks, doesn't turn it over, defends, plays with structure and is reluctant to freelance.

Those three players (Wade, Westbrook and Billups) were not the no-brainers they turned out to be in hindsight. I see no reason to believe that Shumpert cannot surprise as well and transcend his projections. You guys are reading too much into the failures of GT as a team. Shumpert has all the tools and the pro game suits him better than the collegiate game. To boot, the presence of Melo, Amar'e and Billups will make things even easier for him and his confidence will develop even quicker. As for the argument of his GT team failures...didn't Zach Randolph get killed by his detractors when he was a Knick? Fast forward a few years when he was on a team instead of a group of castoff misfits in salary-cut mode and he is now universally viewed as a top PF in the game. With the support group and team Shumpert has in NY this guy will blossom.

TrueWarrior · Post #916 » by **TrueWarrior** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:25 pm

Westbrook's team got to the final four both years at UCLA. He definitely shot up draft boards and Im sure his teams success had a hand in that, albeit he wasnt the star. There were some calling him a reach but it definitely wasnt because of his team.

Wade was the star of Marquette though, and he led his team to the final four and got a triple double. Im pretty sure nobody was saying he was a reach. In fact I watched the draft a couple weeks ago when they showed it on NBATV, and the guys were sayin Wade could be the best in the class. Alot of it because he was a "winner".

So unfairly or not, Shumpert's team success definitely hurt his value. Look how fast Brandon Knight and Kemba rose up the ranks after their tournaments. If Shumpert had a similar showing he would have been in the lottery. But that didnt happen, so we cant say that. He had a young team this year but the one season he had great talent with Lawai and Favors they underachieved, and they say Shumpert was a big reason why.

Im just hoping for the best. Iman does have all the tools to be a great player, nobody is denying that, but thats only one small part of it as we know so well.

If he pans out for us then lets be thankful GTech sucked ass.

2010 · Post #917 » by **2010** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:38 pm

I vividly remember questions about Wade and his position as a SG who dominated the ballhandling as if he was a "1". Now granted, there weren't concerns about Wade's overall talent (as anyone could see from the Marquette video I previously posted) it was more about "fit" and where he'd be best suited. With that said, if you guys read over my posts I never said Shumpert would be as good as Wade. I said he had arguably, a better body than Wade and at the very least on par.

As for Westbrook and/or Billups...nope, I do not think it's insane for Shumpert to be on their level ultimately. Neither Westbrook nor Billups are efficient ball players with their shooting percentages (although Billups does shoot efficiently from 3pt range yet certainly not overall). Westbrook is a turnover machine. They both take a ton of shots to get their points. Yet they both shoot FT's at a high percentage which allows them to get their #'s. Not very un-Shumpert like if you ask me.

Rasho Brezec · Post #918 » by **Rasho Brezec** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:42 pm

I posted some Shumpert - Westbrook college number comparisons a couple 10 pages back.

Falstaffxx · Post #919 » by **Falstaffxx** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:49 pm

TrueWarrior wrote:Westbrook's team got to the final four both years at UCLA. He definitely shot up draft boards and Im sure his teams success had a hand in that, albeit he wasnt the star. There were some calling him a reach but it definitely wasnt because of his team.

Wade was the star of Marquette though, and he led his team to the final four and got a triple double. Im pretty sure nobody was saying he was a reach. In fact I watched the draft a couple weeks ago when they showed it on NBATV, and the guys were sayin Wade could be the best in the class. Alot of it because he was a "winner".

So unfairly or not, Shumpert's team success definitely hurt his value. Look how fast Brandon Knight and Kemba rose up the ranks after their tournaments. If Shumpert had a similar showing he would have been in the lottery. But that didnt happen, so we cant say that. He had a young team this year but the one season he had great talent with Lawai and Favors they underachieved, and they say Shumpert was a big reason why.

Im just hoping for the best. Iman does have all the tools to be a great player, nobody is denying that, but thats only one small part of it as we know so well.

If he pans out for us then lets be thankful GTech sucked ass.

I recall people being surprised when he got picked 4th (it was 4th, right? with Bosh 5th?) - he was expected to go a few picks later than that.

TrueWarrior · Post #920 » by **TrueWarrior** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:56 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:I posted some Shumpert - Westbrook college number comparisons a couple 10 pages back.

You cant really compare them the way you did though.

I can see comparing Westbrook's sophomore year to Shumpert's sophomore year, because they were both 3rd options. Westbrook had Love/Collison/Shipp/Mbah A Moute. Shumpert had Favors/Lawai/Peacock/Rice Jr.

Westbrook's Sophomore Year:
34 mins, 12.7 pts, 4.3 asts, 3.9 rebs, 1.6 stls, 2.5 tos, 47% FG, 34% 3, 71% FT

Shumpert's Sophomore Year:
30 mins, 10.0 pts, 4.0 asts, 3.6 rebs, 1.9 stls, 3.1 tos, 39% FG, 33% 3, 72% FT

So Westbrook played about 4 more minutes and he was on a Final Four team. Overall they arent that far apart on first look, although Westbrook was clearly more efficient shooting and handling the ball, but you have to take the whole mystical UCLA Howland system thing into account which might have hurt Westbrook's numbers a little bit. At the same time Hewitt's system wasnt exactly great for Iman either.

One thing I noticed is just how badly GTech's players shot the ball this year. Their 2nd/3rd/4th/5th leading scorers after Shumpert shot 42%, 36%, 37%, and 41%. As a PG Shumpert didnt seem to be able to get his teammates easy looks. Im sure they werent very good either, but come on. This is the same thing said about Marshon Brooks.

If Iman turns out 3/4 as good as Westbrook though, dumbassness and all, I would take that and run far far away into the sunset laughing. He does compare himself to Russ.