Top 10 Centers

mid-post · Post #101 » by **mid-post** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:23 am

How the hell are people coming up with the idea that Marc Gasol is a bad rebounder?

He's quite a good rebounder, it's just that ZBo eats up a lot of his boards. He's not good at rebounding outside of his area because he's not too fast, but he has great hands and carves out tons of space underneath. And people rarely snag the ball from above him.

So yeah, anyway, this thing with Gasol and his rebounding being an issue/liability is a myth.

KGboss · Post #102 » by **KGboss** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:28 am

grimballer wrote:
KGboss wrote:
Tommy Sneakers wrote:Amare played C a lot more than PF this year. He started at center. He has played center for most of his career. Whether it is his "natural position" doesn't matter. He is a center.

He was FORCED to play C, because NY never had a real center the entire year. That doesn't mean his stats should be looked at and compared to players like Dwight, Bynum, and Chandler. It is not the same situation. Is he alright at the 5? Sure, but wouldn't you rather have him being ranked and compared to KG, Pau Gasol, Dirk, Z-Bo and others of the sort, because that is HIS position.

if he was matched up vs pf then sure.

but when most of the year hes matched up vs c, then it only makes sense to compare him to other cs.

He was matched up against PF as well as C this year. KG was forced to play the 5 a lot after Perk was traded and Shaq was injured. Should he be in the center discussion at all? NO. Just like Amar'e should not be either. Also, I doubt NY keeps the trend up for next season if they want to win. Playing minutes at a position due to lack of others on the team filling that position does not make the individual automatically in the running for being a top 10 player in that position.

grimballer · Post #103 » by **grimballer** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:31 am

btw i would also include scola.

he played alongside 6'6 chucky hayes.

grimballer · Post #104 » by **grimballer** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:38 am

KGboss wrote:
grimballer wrote:
KGboss wrote:
He was FORCED to play C, because NY never had a real center the entire year. That doesn't mean his stats should be looked at and compared to players like Dwight, Bynum, and Chandler. It is not the same situation. Is he alright at the 5? Sure, but wouldn't you rather have him being ranked and compared to KG, Pau Gasol, Dirk, Z-Bo and others of the sort, because that is HIS position.

if he was matched up vs pf then sure.

but when most of the year hes matched up vs c, then it only makes sense to compare him to other cs.

He was matched up against PF as well as C this year. KG was forced to play the 5 a lot after Perk was traded and Shaq was injured. Should he be in the center discussion at all? NO. Just like Amar'e should not be either. Also, I doubt NY keeps the trend up for next season if they want to win. Playing minutes at a position due to lack of others on the team filling that position does not make the individual automatically in the running for being a top 10 player in that position.

key word:

quantity.

kg played some minutes at c.

amare palyed most of his minutes at c.

big difference.

even their game is different.

kg likes the outside game n most of the time will be guarded by other teams pf.

amare likes to attack the basket n therefore was guarded by other teams c.

Jvaughn · Post #105 » by **Jvaughn** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:41 am

Trader_Joe wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:Al Jefferson > Gortat

Also not sure how you have Marc Gasol so high. 12/7 isn't exactly setting the world on fire. No clue how you could have him over Noah.

Forgot about Jefferson, but gasol you can't judge on stats. For rebounds he has to contend with randolph. for shots..randolph, gay, mayo, etc. Fact is he'd put up Much better numbers elsewhere , but he blends in perfect on Memphis. Hes a two way player with high iq, no reason to judge him on stats. Judge him on his play.

You seem to have a lot of excuses why some players are so mediocre at essential parts of the game. Noah competes with Boozer (another double double guy) and Luol Deng and still gets his rebounds. Gasol and Bynum both get their numbers. Tim Duncan and Dejuan Blair both get their rebounds. Deandre Jordan and Blake Griffin both get their rebounds. Stop making up excuses. If their are rebounds out their to get, and players are determined enough to get them, they will.

SKR · Post #106 » by **SKR** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:02 am

grimballer wrote:btw i would also include scola.

he played alongside 6'6 chucky hayes.

But out of those two, Scola was definitely not the C.

aussiebulls1 · Post #107 » by **aussiebulls1** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:13 pm

Noah is definetely a top 5 centre. Its not like he scores 5 points a game. 12+ points a game on 53% fg is still very good for someone who doesn't have any offensive plays run for him. On top of that, he can instigate the offense from the high post and set up for others.

pross · Post #108 » by **pross** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:32 pm

Glad to see Bogut getting some love.

The guy has worked really hard to improve his game. It's a shame a freak injury occurred when he was playing his best and he hasn't quite gotten back to where he was (who knows if he will). The thing he is so skilled with his off hand that his post game is still fine it's just his shot that's lost now. His defense has come miles from when he started. He was a pretty bad defender his first couple of years in the league but has turned into the best defensive C behind Dwight. How he got snubbed for all defensive team bewilders me.

Post #109 » by **Trader_Joe** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:18 pm

Jvaughn wrote:You seem to have a lot of excuses why some players are so mediocre at essential parts of the game. Noah competes with Boozer (another double double guy) and Luol Deng and still gets his rebounds. Gasol and Bynum both get their numbers. Tim Duncan and Dejuan Blair both get their rebounds. Deandre Jordan and Blake Griffin both get their rebounds. Stop making up excuses. If their are rebounds out their to get, and players are determined enough to get them, they will.

Gasol is not a bad rebounder. His team was #9 in rebound differential with a +1 difference. There are not many more rebounds for he (or Randolph) to get. I would all but guarantee you put Gasol on most teams where they need more scoring and rebounding from the C position and he could be an 18/9 type of guy with good defense, BB IQ and that plays within the system.

Post #110 » by **Trader_Joe** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:21 pm

ManualRam wrote:i dont think gasol is good enough on the defensive end to be considered a legit 2 way player. he's a slow footed space eater on that end.

Who cares if he's slow footed? So were Ewing and Deke. He's big enough and strong enough to hold his ground and defend the post very well. There are not too many C's that take you off the dribble and turn it into a foot speed contest. Let the PF guard the perimeter PF or the ones with the speed and athleticism. Let your C worry about defending the post.

kodo · Post #111 » by **kodo** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:43 pm

grimballer wrote:even their game is different.
kg likes the outside game n most of the time will be guarded by other teams pf.
amare likes to attack the basket n therefore was guarded by other teams c.

Amare's inside/outside scoring split is a PF's. 66% jumpers / 34% inside.
That's typical for a PF, majority of shots coming on jump shots.
http://www.82games.com/1011/10NYK19.HTM

Compared to other prototypical PFs, Amare's 34% inside scoring isn't that much:
Boozer: 47% inside
Zbo: 44% inside
Landry: 32% inside
Griffin: 46% inside

When talking "true" centers many of them do their damage inside:
Noah: 71% inside
Dwight: 68% inside
Bogut: 85% inside
Nene: 71% inside
Bynum: 68% inside

You can take Ray Allen and list him at the center if you want. But if he's not getting the ball inside the paint and scoring, he's not bringing what makes the center position so valuable around the league.

BeasleyTheBeast · Post #112 » by **BeasleyTheBeast** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:03 pm

how is Duncan a top 5, better yet a top 10 center?

I don't see how you guys can still be overrating him, after that horrible playoff perfomance.

BeasleyTheBeast · Post #113 » by **BeasleyTheBeast** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:05 pm

Dwight Howard

Andrew Bogut
Marc Gasol
Andrew Bynum

Brook Lopez
Nene
Tim Duncan
Joakim Noah
Tyson Chandler
Javlee McGee

BeasleyTheBeast · Post #114 » by **BeasleyTheBeast** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:06 pm

BeasleyTheBeast wrote:how is Duncan a top 5, better yet a top 10 center?

I don't see how you guys can still be overrating him, after that horrible playoff perfomance.

nvm, the center position is dead, so i guess Duncan is a top 10 center :-?

Post #115 » by **Thugger HBC** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:11 pm

BeasleyTheBeast wrote:how is Duncan a top 5, better yet a top 10 center?

I don't see how you guys can still be overrating him, after that horrible playoff perfomance.

Why not?

After Dwight, the position drops off completely.

BeasleyTheBeast · Post #116 » by **BeasleyTheBeast** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:14 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
BeasleyTheBeast wrote:how is Duncan a top 5, better yet a top 10 center?

I don't see how you guys can still be overrating him, after that horrible playoff perfomance.

Why not?

After Dwight, the position drops off completely.

Andrew Bogut
Andrew Bynum
Marc Gasol

Tim Duncan doesn't have anything on those 3 guys i have just listed...........i might even add Brook Lopez on that too.

btw i edited my post............ Tim is a top 10 center, but he has no discussion over Andrew Bogut, Andrew Bynum, Marc Gasol IMO

Post #117 » by **Thugger HBC** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:20 pm

BeasleyTheBeast wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
BeasleyTheBeast wrote:how is Duncan a top 5, better yet a top 10 center?

I don't see how you guys can still be overrating him, after that horrible playoff perfomance.

Why not?

After Dwight, the position drops off completely.

Andrew Bogut
Andrew Bynum
Marc Gasol

Tim Duncan doesn't have anything on those 3 guys i have just listed...........i might even add Brook Lopez on that too.

btw i edited my post............ Tim is a top 10 center, but he has no discussion over Andrew Bogut, Andrew Bynum, Marc Gasol IMO

Two oft-injured's and a role player.

Like I said the center position really have fallen on hard times.

BeasleyTheBeast · Post #118 » by **BeasleyTheBeast** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:26 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
BeasleyTheBeast wrote:
Andrew Bogut
Andrew Bynum
Marc Gasol

Tim Duncan doesn't have anything on those 3 guys i have just listed...........i might even add Brook Lopez on that too.

btw i edited my post............ Tim is a top 10 center, but he has no discussion over Andrew Bogut, Andrew Bynum, Marc Gasol IMO

Two oft-injured's and a role player.

Like I said the center position really have fallen on hard times.

role player that outplayed Duncan in the playoffs?

Post #119 » by **Thugger HBC** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:33 pm

BeasleyTheBeast wrote:
role player that outplayed Duncan in the playoffs?

And????

Terry out played Lebron, doesn't make him better.

My point is the center position has fell off.

Doormatt · Post #120 » by **Doormatt** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:57 pm

Joakim Noah DOES NOT anchor the bulls defense, that is not the type of center/player he is.