Is There a Single Bulls Fan on Here Who Says D.Will > Rose?

[Gongxi]

Where is he getting his percentages from, anyway? Or did he think you could make up numbers and then turn around and use those to support your opinion?

[Jvaughn]

My bias allows me to say Rose > D.Williams.
Not a single Chicago fan can overcome their bias to say D.Will > Rose.

That doesn't make any sense. You're assuming that Bulls fans only say Rose>Dwill because their biased. You're not accepting that we say it because it's actually true. We see Rose every night, so of course we're going to accept the truth.

There's homerism at it's best. I'm not even saying you're wrong, just the way you say it screams HOMER.

I can't believe how many people missed Gongxi's point.

I phrased it in a way to get a solid answer out of him.

[Jvaughn]

My bias allows me to say Rose > D.Williams.
Not a single Chicago fan can overcome their bias to say D.Will > Rose.

That doesn't make any sense. You're assuming that Bulls fans only say Rose>Dwill because their biased. You're not accepting that we say it because it's actually true. We see Rose every night, so of course we're going to accept the truth.

So why do roughly 30% 3rd party fans who:

a. See them equally or more likely see Rose more and more recently
b. have no reason to be biased for or against Rose or D.Will

say D.Will > Rose?

What does seeing a player every night have to do with anything?
I see Lopez ever night. Doesn't mean I think he is even a top 5 Center.

Couldn't I just as easily go to the MIA board and ask why can't I get one MIA fan to get past their bias and call Kobe a better player than Lebron? How about going to the NJ board and asking why can't I get one NJ fan to get past their bias and admit that Chris Kaman is better than Brook Lopez?

[mc44]

Its not like Williams is easily better player than Rose. There is nothing to admit here.
Since majority of the fans thinks Rose is better than why would D Will fan be suprised that Bulls fans pick Rose over Williams?

[Trader_Joe]

Where is he getting his percentages from, anyway? Or did he think you could make up numbers and then turn around and use those to support your opinion?

Well...

ESPN just ranked D.Will > Rose
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/08 ... itter_feed


But more relevant to here:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1128336
Building a franchise: Deron Williams or Derrick Rose

Deron Williams
47%
Derrick Rose
53%

So actually, I was being nice to you guys.

[Trader_Joe]

Its not like Williams is easily better player than Rose. There is nothing to admit here.
Since majority of the fans thinks Rose is better than why would D Will fan be suprised that Bulls fans pick Rose over Williams?

I recent poll on Real GM showed 53% rather build a franchise with Rose vs/ 47% for D.Williams

So, yes the 47% of the general population vs. 0% of the Bulls population does somewhat surprise me. I thought there would be more objectivity displayed.

[cool007]

Where is he getting his percentages from, anyway? Or did he think you could make up numbers and then turn around and use those to support your opinion?

Well...

ESPN just ranked D.Will > Rose
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/08 ... itter_feed


But more relevant to here:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1128336
Building a franchise: Deron Williams or Derrick Rose

Deron Williams
47%
Derrick Rose
53%

So actually, I was being nice to you guys.

You do realize that people tend to pick the players that have longer history or have been in the league longer.

Last year it was same, most people picked Rondo over Rose. Just like that people still pick Deron over Rose more since Deron has been in the league for a while. He gets 2 more apg so people tend to pick him as more of a "PURE" PG instead of who is the "Better Player" at the PG position.

Rose is more like a "new" commodity. He just had a breakout year. People want to see this consistently before they put a "newly superstar" player above the "known" one.

Bring this thread and the other after next year and I bet you it becomes more towards Rose 80% to Deron 20% just like how it is with Rose vs Rondo now.

[ahonui06]

I think Deron Williams is fine for the comparison. He played on the Illini 6 years ago and lost to UNC.

Chicago fans can relate more to Rose who was born and raised in their city and now plays on the Bulls who reside in their city. University of Illinois is 2 hours away from Chicago as well.

[Gongxi]

Where is he getting his percentages from, anyway? Or did he think you could make up numbers and then turn around and use those to support your opinion?

Well...

ESPN just ranked D.Will > Rose
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/08 ... itter_feed


But more relevant to here:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1128336
Building a franchise: Deron Williams or Derrick Rose

Deron Williams
47%
Derrick Rose
53%

So actually, I was being nice to you guys.

So- again- you just made both of the numbers you used up?

[Gongxi]

I think Deron Williams is fine for the comparison. He played on the Illini 6 years ago and lost to UNC.

Chicago fans can relate more to Rose who was born and raised in their city and now plays on the Bulls who reside in their city. University of Illinois is 2 hours away from Chicago as well.

It's not about relating. After talking to you for the last few weeks, I feel like your goal in life is to just get everything wrong. I hope that's what it is anyway, because you're doing okay on that front.

[ahonui06]

I think Deron Williams is fine for the comparison. He played on the Illini 6 years ago and lost to UNC.

Chicago fans can relate more to Rose who was born and raised in their city and now plays on the Bulls who reside in their city. University of Illinois is 2 hours away from Chicago as well.

It's not about relating. After talking to you for the last few weeks, I feel like your goal in life is to just get everything wrong. I hope that's what it is anyway, because you're doing okay on that front.

Maybe, for once, you could realize that you might be wrong and that someone else's opinion could be valid.

Your examples stray too far from basketball and try to be abstract when no one really cares how smart you are trying to make yourself sound.

[Trader_Joe]

Where is he getting his percentages from, anyway? Or did he think you could make up numbers and then turn around and use those to support your opinion?

Well...

ESPN just ranked D.Will > Rose
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/08 ... itter_feed


But more relevant to here:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1128336
Building a franchise: Deron Williams or Derrick Rose

Deron Williams
47%
Derrick Rose
53%

So actually, I was being nice to you guys.

So- again- you just made both of the numbers you used up?

I used 30% - 40% thinking the poll was closer to 40%, not 50%.
I was trying to give you guys the benefit of the doubt. I did not "make the numbers up" I was basing them on a survey I saw on here just last week.

[Gongxi]

Oh, I know you don't.

The idea is, when it comes to discussing and comparing anything, that you need to be consistent and (ideally) empirical. My point wasn't about 'relating', it was about Williams not representing what the OP wanted to represent. But he's too busy trying to ram his opinion down our throats that he doesn't realize I don't give a **** about his opinion, I'm just telling him his method is wrong.

Case in point: I ask where he got his numbers from and laughed at him because I was pretty sure he just made them up and started arguing as if they were right for the last 5 pages. What does he do? Simply show me other numbers. I don't care about those numbers, I was just making the point that his entire methodology was (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

Which, really, is a microcosm for a lot of what I try to do on this site: I don't care if the answer is LeBron, Jordan, Kobe, Wade, Wilt, Magic, whatever. The answer is totally unimportant to me; I'm not sentimental or emotional about any of that. I care about the process of getting that answer and making sure the process is both logically and internally consistent.

Which, to bring it back to this thread, means I don't give a **** about picking Rose or Williams or about Bulls fans' opinion on Rose or Williams- I was simply pointing out his method was flawed.

Get it?

[Gongxi]

Well...

ESPN just ranked D.Will > Rose
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/08 ... itter_feed


But more relevant to here:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1128336
Building a franchise: Deron Williams or Derrick Rose

Deron Williams
47%
Derrick Rose
53%

So actually, I was being nice to you guys.

So- again- you just made both of the numbers you used up?

I used 30% - 40% thinking the poll was closer to 40%, not 50%.
I was trying to give you guys the benefit of the doubt. I did not "make the numbers up" I was basing them on a survey I saw on here just last week.

So you just...well didn't make up, but...misremembered and then presented it as fact?

Who is 'you guys'? If you're talking about Bulls fans, I already said they're on the same level. So...what?

[Trader_Joe]

So you just...well didn't make up, but...misremembered and then presented it as fact?

Who is 'you guys'? If you're talking about Bulls fans, I already said they're on the same level. So...what?

Wow... this is too funny.

No.. I thought the poll was 60-70% in favor of Rose (notice how I usually said roughly, gave a range or used '~').. and may have been at one point when I last looked (the poll is still open) Right now it is 53% Rose. So if anything this makes the homerism angle look worse and my point more valid.

Yet, you love to try divert the obvious and mention my percentages being off (in Bulls' fans favor no less making them look somewhat objective) or you want to mention the fact Deron attended Illinois 6 years ago as making him a favorite among of Bulls fans.. I guess.. still don't see any point to that argument or why you brought it up.. or what it showed, because nothing can take away from this...

0.0% Bulls fans think D.Will > Rose
47% of the general Real GM population prefers to build their franchise with D.Will
(actually higher, since the 53% of Rose supporters includes probably several voted by Bulls fans, thus if only true third party fans.. non NJ/Chicago fans were allowed to vote, it may actually be tied or in D.Will's favor)

[Gongxi]

This is too funny. But unfortunately, you don't understand why.

[Trader_Joe]

This is too funny. But unfortunately, you don't understand why.

I'm laughing. (see below)

You still continue to make non-nonsensical arguments, call my stats fake.. yet I show where they came from and how I actually gave the benefit of the doubt to Chicago fans, and still ridicule them, and continue to ignore the obvious.

Bulls fans on RealGM PC board are nonobjective. Their opinions clearly do not match up with those of the general/neutral population, and will not admit a bias, or can not make evaluation free of a bias.

Even I, as a Net fan, have been able to overcome my bias and admit Rose > D.Williams and go against the grain of Nets fans and 47% of the general population, yet not a single Bulls fan seems able to do the same. (i.e. 0.0% of the fan base vs. 47% of the general population thinks D.Will > Rose)

The best reason I've gotten so far..
"Well, we watch him more"

[Gongxi]

I called your numbers (not stats) fake because they were. And you admitted it.

It's like you didn't understand how I told you I specifically don't post on team boards because they're homers (which would agree with your argument, although the specifics of it are still horrible), and it's like you don't remember that I said they're basically the same, and it's like you don't remember that I said I really don't care about where people rank them, Bulls fan, Nets fan, or any fan. What is wrong with your memory? You've succeeded in missing my point for this entire thread. That's actually kinda impressive.

[Trader_Joe]

I called your numbers (not stats) fake because they were. And you admitted it.

It's like you didn't understand how I told you I specifically don't post on team boards because they're homers (which would agree with your argument, although the specifics of it are still horrible), and it's like you don't remember that I said they're basically the same, and it's like you don't remember that I said I really don't care about where people rank them, Bulls fan, Nets fan, or any fan. What is wrong with your memory? You've succeeded in missing my point for this entire thread. That's actually kinda impressive.

No they were not fake:
-They were based on thread on this very board from about a week ago
-I provided the link
-I almost always said (almost, roughly, '~' or gave a range)
-At one point it was more in Rose's favor
-The poll is still open and can change
-I did not remember the exact percentage and gave the benefit of the doubt to Bulls fans

You again are trying to distract and deceive. Rather low strategies generally used by those that have nothing else to debate or want to avoid the topic at hand.

Nothing is wrong with my memory. I've read this thread over and have seen what you said. You're grasping at straws and trying to point out either non-relevant or non-realized factors that clearly don't go against anything I'm saying here, so I'm not sure why you would bring them up.

FACTS:
-47% of RealGM PC Posters who voted in that thread, prefer D.Will to Rose
-0.0% of RealGM PC Posters who are Bulls fans prefer D.Will to Rose

You tell me how to account for the discrepancy.
That's all I ask. (And please not by telling me "we watch him more")

[Gongxi]

:facepalm: