2012 Jays Bullpen Discussion Thread

Post #1 » by **LittleOzzy** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:48 pm

Who stays, who goes, who gets promoted?

What is the Jays biggest need when it comes to the Bullpen? Do you see any major changes happening?

number15 · Post #2 » by **number15** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:25 pm

Janson, Francisco, Villanueva, Litsch..... thats a solid start

then again thats what the JAYS had this season and it didnt look good. Im puzzled call these guys are solid relievers on their own.

I mean 2-3 of the guys on that list (guess who) could get Scott Downs type returns on the open market... they are more than solid

WpgPage · Post #3 » by **WpgPage** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:40 pm

Would like to see the Jays offer a contract to Broxton or Zumya similar to what they did with Cordero last year. With the closer job wide open we can offer them a chance to come back if they recover well. Should help us sign one of them.

Lateral Quicks · Post #4 » by **Lateral Quicks** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:47 pm

I like Litsch as a 5th starter, but not so much in the bullpen, especially when you have a better option in Villanueva for the long relief role. I think he's a candidate to be traded.

I doubt Francisco is back. He alienated management with this behaviour earlier in the year.

Right now I see:

Janssen
Villanueva
Carreno

... and that's it. We need quality guys who can pitch effectively in the late innings, at least one of which is left-handed. Two would be better. And neither Perez nor Carlson are good solutions IMO.

I hope Carreno can eventually fill a late-inning role (ideally the closer's role), but you don't go into the season with those expectations on his shoulders.

flatjacket1 · Post #5 » by **flatjacket1** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:36 am

LR Dustin McGowan
LR Jessie Litch
LR Joel Careeno
MR Carlos Villanueva
MR ???Jesse Chavez???
SU Casey Janssen
SU FA
CP FA or selected from any of the other spots

My ideal bullpen.

baulderdash77 · Post #6 » by **baulderdash77** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:03 pm

Camp, Rauch and Fransisco are all going to get us draft picks. I really like how Fransisco finished the year for us but I'll take the pick because I think we can get a replacement Type B free agent.

Janssen, Carreno, Litsch, Villanueva and Perez will be back and are all pretty much locks at this point I think.

There's a bunch of internal options as well- Beck is ready and has closer stuff, Drabek could be a guy, McGowan is another guy that could be there.

We need another lefty in the bullpen (maybe Cecil?) and a closer.

Cecil is shaping up to be a perfect lefty specialist. Despite his poor season last year he has been dominant against lefties .183 BA against and no HR's allowed.

Perez is not a good starter but he has a real future as a loogy- so consider him a lock for the pen next year.

rtcaino · Post #7 » by **rtcaino** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:42 pm

I pretty much agree with BD77:

Janssen, Carreno, Litsch, Villanueva and Perez are pretty much locks. Beck also looks like he could be ready. That is a decent start, but could use an addition or two at the top.

Draft picks from Camp, and Fransisco are pretty much locks as well. Not as sure about Rauch.

baulderdash77 · Post #8 » by **baulderdash77** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:03 pm

Jays Journal discussed some lefty options recently:
http://jaysjournal.com/2011/10/11/left- ... nt-market/

We all remember Javier Lopez the former Red Sox reliever. He is definitely the kind of lefty lefty that we need. John Farrell was his pitching coach at some point so I would look as him being a top free agent mid reliever. Also if he has a good year, he'll be a Type B free agent again and a good candidate for another draft pick.

silverhill27 · Post #9 » by **silverhill27** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:33 pm

Villanueva as the long man
Litsch and Carreno as ROOGYs
Perez and ? as LOOGYs (ideally Cecil if AA adds a starter)
Janssen as the 8th inning man
Closer ?

Once the roles are defined, I think its an above average bullpen.

kwamebargnani · Post #10 » by **kwamebargnani** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:21 pm

silverhill27 wrote:Perez and ? as LOOGYs (ideally Cecil if AA adds a starter)

Ideally Cecil isn't on the roster.

baulderdash77 · Post #11 » by **baulderdash77** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:22 am

kwamebargnani wrote:
silverhill27 wrote:Perez and ? as LOOGYs (ideally Cecil if AA adds a starter)

Ideally Cecil isn't on the roster.

I'm very confident that Cecil can be as effective as Scott Downs if he is moved to the bullpen. He's definitely part of the future in some role.

g_greg · Post #12 » by **g_greg** » Sat Nov 5, 2011 10:33 pm

Cecil might be the long term lefty specialist for the Jays when we contend in 2 years.
Until then I think we could take a look at the D-train - Dontrelle Willis. I got the idea from Jeff Passan (I hate the guy, but it's a good idea)

His splits against lefties are really good, striking out 1/3 of LHB he's faced and holding lefties to a BA of .127. He signed a minor league deal with the Reds but is a free agent for next year. I would I'd sign him for 1yr/1 or 1.5 million a year.

ALSO: for a potential closing candidate, I'd take a flyer on Kerry Wood, who seems to have put his arm problems behind him. SO/9 was 10.3 least season with an ERA of 3.35. Maybe 3 or 4 mill a year will pry him away from the Cubs

Relentless88 · Post #13 » by **Relentless88** » Sun Nov 6, 2011 8:02 pm

I think Kerry Wood said that if the Cubs don't bring him back, he will retire. I don't think he's considering any other options.

LBJSeizedMyID · Post #14 » by **LBJSeizedMyID** » Mon Nov 7, 2011 2:10 pm

Wouldn't mind seeing Mike Gonzalez even though he's injury prone.
Chad Qualls
Koji Uehara
Joel Zumaya on an incentive laden contract, but he'll probably get a guaranteed from someone.

dagger · Post #15 » by **dagger** » Mon Nov 7, 2011 6:19 pm

Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
The Blue Jays are taking a very aggressive approach in looking for a closer; wouldn't be a shock if they landed one of best guys.

dagger · Post #16 » by **dagger** » Mon Nov 7, 2011 6:20 pm

Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
The Blue Jays are taking a very aggressive approach in looking for a closer; wouldn't be a shock if they landed one of best guys.

Wo1verine · Post #17 » by **Wo1verine** » Mon Nov 7, 2011 8:02 pm

Bailey from Oak seems like a great fit young and controllable..

g_greg · Post #18 » by **g_greg** » Tue Nov 8, 2011 3:51 am

dagger wrote:Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
The Blue Jays are taking a very aggressive approach in looking for a closer; wouldn't be a shock if they landed one of best guys.

Uh oh.. call the shareholders! haha
Seriously tho... Papelbon?

rarefind · Post #19 » by **rarefind** » Tue Nov 8, 2011 3:59 am

I'm assuming it is Madson, won't be cheap but probably the least-expensive high profile bullpen arm available. Madson made 4 million last season and you'd imagine he'd be probably looking to double that on a multi-year term.

Wo1verine · Post #20 » by **Wo1verine** » Tue Nov 8, 2011 5:20 pm

Olney's column today focuses on the Jays search for a closer, and says that they have mainly discussed four names: Heath Bell, Jonathan Papelbon, Joe Nathan and Andrew Bailey.

"The Toronto Blue Jays ranked fourth in blown saves last season with 25, and in the still of the offseason, club officials will inevitably play the what-if game (and you can't blame them).

What if Toronto's relievers had been just mildly more efficient and had not blown just six leads? Well, rather than finishing the year at 81-81, Toronto would have been within a stone's throw of first place, and perhaps the Blue Jays would have been in contention. They might've been part of some three-team mix at the end, with the Tampa Bay Rays and Boston Red Sox.

It stands to reason that in 2012, when the Blue Jays may seemingly take a long stride forward towards contending for their first playoff appearance since 1993, that a shut-down closer could make an enormous difference for Toronto. The word is that the Blue Jays are aggressively seeking an experienced closer, either through the free agent market or in the trade market -- someone who will reward Toronto's developing starting pitchers for their efforts.

Among the names that have come up in their conversations: Heath Bell; Jonathan Papelbon (if they landed him, they would theoretically be weakening one of the teams they are chasing); Joe Nathan, who threw the ball very well down the stretch, as he got further removed from his elbow surgery; and Andrew Bailey, for whom the Blue Jays would have to trade.

If the Blue Jays signed a closer, they would not have to surrender talent in a deal; they would have to pay a premium in salary and perhaps a draft pick. If they traded for Bailey, the Blue Jays would have to give up prospects, but would control the reliever through the 2014 season -- and colleagues say that Toronto GM Alex Anthopoulos places a very high value on player control. Trading Bailey now would make sense for the Oakland Athletics because they -- who continue to rot in a baseball twilight zone while waiting to see if they can get approval for a San Jose ballpark -- are probably not going to contend in 2012 and may want to take advantage of Bailey's value now before he becomes more expensive through arbitration.

No matter how the Blue Jays fill the closer's role, they are intent on getting somebody who can control the ninth inning a lot better than Toronto did in 2011."